Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

[seaofnails]

this is the truth, never allow the dishonest to make you uncomfortable or compromise

there is freedom in the truth - and in untruth there is only impotency, weakness and captivity and manipulation in untruth.

untruth attempts to disguise itself within a comfortable human emotion that are an illusions and false distractions

 

[Clyde 154]

Mary is the immaculate conception, not Jesus.

There was nothing "miraculous" about the conception of Mary..........her physical bloodline is presented in great detail in the historical records of the Holy Scriptures. (Luke 3:23-38) Joseph could not have 2 earthly fathers. Matthew states, "Jacob begat Joseph, "the husband of Mary", of whom Jesus was born." -- Matthew 1:16. Luke states, "....Jospeh.....THE SON OF HELI...." Luke 3:23.

Its clear, the scriptures record 2 different family lineages, one by Matthew, one by Luke. Matthew is giving the line as coming from Joseph........Jesus' Legal Father, as an adopted son Jesus has the same legal rights as a natural son under Jewish law. Joseph had the legal right to name his adopted son (Luke 1:62-63, Matthew 1:24-25)....it was Jesus father "Joseph".....the carpenter who named his son Jesus, who was known as the son of a carpenter (Matthew 13:55).......Jesus.

Matthew's point of view in the lineage of Jesus is presented from Joseph's perspective as the adopted Father of Jesus (Matthew 1:18-25) while Luke's point of view comes a great deal from eyewitness accounts of Jesus birth...the most important is the testimony of Mary who recounts the conception of Jesus (Luke 1:1-4)

Why is Joseph mentioned 2 times in the lineage of Jesus? Hebrews/Jews used son in different senses. Example: son is used in declaring Solomon as the Son of David (Matt. 1:16) Son of can also refer to a descendant such as a grandson or great grandson...etc., (Matt. 1:1, 21:9, 22:42). Son of is also used to refer to a SON IN LAW (1 Sam. 24:16, 26:17). This makes the 2 different lines as one coming from Joseph the adopted father of Jesus..........and Mary......whose line is represented in the Old Jewish fashion as naming only the Male line of descent. Joseph is standing in as the 1st male in that line in both Matthew and Luke.........Heli can only be the Father of Mary....the NEXT MALE IN MARY'S LINE OF DESCENDANT.

This is confirmed by Levite law, in relation to marriage and family responsibilities to care for family members when there is an absence of a provider figure such as when a father dies...etc., (Deut. 25:5-10, Matt. 22:24-26)

A Stepson (as was Joseph to Heli..since Jesus had no earthly father) took on the legal responsibility of Jesus. This is exactly what Joseph was to Mary and Jesus a legal Husband to Mary (and the 1st male to be used in the old testament style line of lineage which used only male representatives of that line). (Matt. 13:55, Mark 6:3, Luke 3:23 (which directly refers to Joseph as the father of Jesus), 4:24, John 6:24.

 

[surada]

There was nothing "miraculous" about the conception of Mary..........her physical bloodline is presented in great detail in the historical records of the Holy Scriptures. (Luke 3:23-38) Joseph could not have 2 earthly fathers. Matthew states, "Jacob begat Joseph, "the husband of Mary", of whom Jesus was born." -- Matthew 1:16. Luke states, "....Jospeh.....THE SON OF HELI...." Luke 3:23.

Its clear, the scriptures record 2 different family lineages, one by Matthew, one by Luke. Matthew is giving the line as coming from Joseph........Jesus' Legal Father, as an adopted son Jesus has the same legal rights as a natural son under Jewish law. Joseph had the legal right to name his adopted son (Luke 1:62-63, Matthew 1:24-25)....it was Jesus father "Joseph".....the carpenter who named his son Jesus, who was known as the son of a carpenter (Matthew 13:55).......Jesus.

Matthew's point of view in the lineage of Jesus is presented from Joseph's perspective as the adopted Father of Jesus (Matthew 1:18-25) while Luke's point of view comes a great deal from eyewitness accounts of Jesus birth...the most important is the testimony of Mary who recounts the conception of Jesus (Luke 1:1-4)

Why is Joseph mentioned 2 times in the lineage of Jesus? Hebrews/Jews used son in different senses. Example: son is used in declaring Solomon as the Son of David (Matt. 1:16) Son of can also refer to a descendant such as a grandson or great grandson...etc., (Matt. 1:1, 21:9, 22:42). Son of is also used to refer to a SON IN LAW (1 Sam. 24:16, 26:17). This makes the 2 different lines as one coming from Joseph the adopted father of Jesus..........and Mary......whose line is represented in the Old Jewish fashion as naming only the Male line of descent. Joseph is standing in as the 1st male in that line in both Matthew and Luke.........Heli can only be the Father of Mary....the NEXT MALE IN MARY'S LINE OF DESCENDANT.

This is confirmed by Levite law, in relation to marriage and family responsibilities to care for family members when there is an absence of a provider figure such as when a father dies...etc., (Deut. 25:5-10, Matt. 22:24-26)

A Stepson (as was Joseph to Heli..since Jesus had no earthly father) took on the legal responsibility of Jesus. This is exactly what Joseph was to Mary and Jesus a legal Husband to Mary (and the 1st male to be used in the old testament style line of lineage which used only male representatives of that line). (Matt. 13:55, Mark 6:3, Luke 3:23 (which directly refers to Joseph as the father of Jesus), 4:24, John 6:24.

Tradition has it that Mary herself was conceived free from original sin. That's the Immaculate Conception. Few Protestants believe that.

 

[Clyde 154]

Tradition has it that Mary herself was conceived free from original sin. That's the Immaculate Conception. Few Protestants believe that.

You actually cannot accept this nonsense ..............you are always attempting to send someone down a meaningless rabbit Hole.

The Catholic Church endorses this supposed Tradition. Fact: there is no mention of "original sin" or a command to worship and or pray to Mary found in the Holy Scriptures. The scriptures declare that Children are born innocent and are not responsible for the sins of the father........the soul that sins will be put to death. (Deut. 24:16, Ez. 18:20). Jesus stated, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven/God (Matt. 19:13-15) one has to be like innocent children who are born without sin and cannot be responsible for sin until they reach the age of reason......i.e, the age to determine good from evil.

Who was Mary's father if not Heli, who is mentioned in Luke as the father In Law of Joseph.? The lineage in Luke actually begins with the first male member of Mary's lineage..........Heli. Joseph cannot have 2 physical fathers. Luke presents Jesus' lineage under the terms of Hebrew Law that uses only male members of lineage, while Matthew uses Joseph as the legal father of Jesus......who is the husband of Mary.


What did Jesus Christ declare about placing tradition over the Holy Scriptures? (Mark 7:13) -- "....thus making VOID the Word of God by your tradition you have handed down." Jesus called them vipers, serpents, hypocrites for replacing scripture with TRADITION (Matthew 23)

 

[hadit]

Tradition has it that Mary herself was conceived free from original sin. That's the Immaculate Conception. Few Protestants believe that.

Because it's not Biblical. Mary was a flesh and blood woman, chosen to be the vessel through which Yeshua was given, but trying to make her out to be practically divine amounts to worship, something she, as a Godly woman, would shun. She sinned, as Scripture tells us only one was perfect and sinless, and it wasn't her. She had sex with Joseph and bore half-brothers and sisters of Yeshua. I just don't get why Catholics get all twisted up about this.

 

[surada]

You actually cannot accept this nonsense ..............you are always attempting to send someone down a meaningless rabbit Hole.

The Catholic Church endorses this supposed Tradition. Fact: there is no mention of "original sin" or a command to worship and or pray to Mary found in the Holy Scriptures. The scriptures declare that Children are born innocent and are not responsible for the sins of the father........the soul that sins will be put to death. (Deut. 24:16, Ez. 18:20). Jesus stated, in order to enter the kingdom of heaven/God (Matt. 19:13-15) one has to be like innocent children who are born without sin and cannot be responsible for sin until they reach the age of reason......i.e, the age to determine good from evil.

Who was Mary's father if not Heli, who is mentioned in Luke as the father In Law of Joseph.? The lineage in Luke actually begins with the first male member of Mary's lineage..........Heli. Joseph cannot have 2 physical fathers. Luke presents Jesus' lineage under the terms of Hebrew Law that uses only male members of lineage, while Matthew uses Joseph as the legal father of Jesus......who is the husband of Mary.


What did Jesus Christ declare about placing tradition over the Holy Scriptures? (Mark 7:13) -- "....thus making VOID the Word of God by your tradition you have handed down." Jesus called them vipers, serpents, hypocrites for replacing scripture with TRADITION (Matthew 23)

I know. Original sin wasn't doctrine until the 3rd century. Jews and Muslims don't believe it.

 

[Clyde 154]

I know. Original sin wasn't doctrine until the 3rd century. Jews and Muslims don't believe it.

I define myself simply as "A CHRISTIAN" that belongs to no denomination, that builds/constructs faith by the word of God, alone. Anyone that suggests that God talks to them other than by the content of the Holy Scriptures is lying, mentally challenged, or both. God has no respect of person.

No Christian, that worships in "spirit" and "truth", believes/accepts the dogma of tradition as Doctrine comes from the Holy Scriptures, not man's traditions. "All scripture is "breathed out"/inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17.

The true church is described in scripture as consisting of ".....one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." -- Eph. 4:5-6

There cannot be many truths.......some based upon tradition (the Lord despised tradition when it made the scriptures of non effect -- Matthew 15:16, 23, Mark 7:13...........there is only one source to calibrate Christian Truth, the word of God and it must be applied in a Sola Scriptura method to make it possible to objectively calibrate, define and demonstrate CHRISTIAN FAITH/TRUTH.

Sola Scriptura: Latin, Scripture Alone establishes doctrine

If there is no source to calibrate truth, there is no ONE TRUE CHURCH and the Lord has died in vain. Why Sola Scripture? Its simple...........the god of this world (Satan: 2 Cor. 4:4) is a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44)

The truth as found in scripture is the Sword of God to defend against the deceit of Satan who controls evil in high social and political positions (Heb. 4:12, Eph. 6:12, 17). Example.....attempting to claim that tradition is superior to scripture, its a documented lie that originated in the pits of hell.

 

[surada]

I define myself simply as "A CHRISTIAN" that belongs to no denomination, that builds/constructs faith by the word of God, alone. Anyone that suggests that God talks to them other than by the content of the Holy Scriptures is lying, mentally challenged, or both. God has no respect of person.

No Christian, that worships in "spirit" and "truth", believes/accepts the dogma of tradition as Doctrine comes from the Holy Scriptures, not man's traditions. "All scripture is "breathed out"/inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17.

The true church is described in scripture as consisting of ".....one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." -- Eph. 4:5-6

There cannot be many truths.......some based upon tradition (the Lord despised tradition when it made the scriptures of non effect -- Matthew 15:16, 23, Mark 7:13...........there is only one source to calibrate Christian Truth, the word of God and it must be applied in a Sola Scriptura method to make it possible to objectively calibrate, define and demonstrate CHRISTIAN FAITH/TRUTH.

Sola Scriptura: Latin, Scripture Alone establishes doctrine

If there is no source to calibrate truth, there is no ONE TRUE CHURCH and the Lord has died in vain. Why Sola Scripture? Its simple...........the god of this world (Satan: 2 Cor. 4:4) is a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44)

The truth as found in scripture is the Sword of God to defend against the deceit of Satan who controls evil in high social and political positions (Heb. 4:12, Eph. 6:12, 17). Example.....attempting to claim that tradition is superior to scripture, its a documented lie that originated in the pits of hell.

I'm disappointed in you.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Tradition has it that Mary herself was conceived free from original sin. That's the Immaculate Conception. Few Protestants believe that.

Tradition has no place in determining what the Word teaches,

 

[JustAGuy1]

I'm disappointed in you.

Is this supposed to shame him? Nobody cares about your disappointment.

 

[Meriweather]

Tradition has no place in determining what the Word teaches,

Kind of an amazing attitude being that tradition was in place before the New Testament was written....The Gospel stories would all qualify as handed down as traditional stories told of Jesus. Traditions of Jesus, acceptable? Traditions of Mary non acceptable?

 

[JustAGuy1]

Kind of an amazing attitude being that tradition was in place before the New Testament was written....The Gospel stories would all qualify as handed down as traditional stories told of Jesus. Traditions of Jesus, acceptable? Traditions of Mary non acceptable?

I do not consider Scripture as man made Traditions, Scripture is the divinely inspired Word of God. Mary is blessed of God but nothing more.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Mark

[8] For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.[9] And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition

 

[Meriweather]

I do not consider Scripture as man made Traditions, Scripture is the divinely inspired Word of God. Mary is blessed of God but nothing more.

Again, traditions of her don't count, but traditions of Jesus do?

 

[JustAGuy1]

Again, traditions of her don't count, but traditions of Jesus do?

Your question has been answered by the Word. Move along.

 

[Meriweather]

Your question has been answered by the Word. Move along.

No it has not. Face facts.

You quoted Mark, and Mark's Gospel is of traditions related to him. Basically, the tradition of Mary being conceived without sin is handed down just like the tradition of which Mark wrote. The traditions of Mary and Jesus are comparable.

What can be regarded as a man-made tradition concerning Mary is that Catholics attend Mass on the day her Immaculate Conception is commemorated. Another man-made tradition: Each Sunday Christians celebrating Christ's life, death, and resurrection (and listening to the traditions concerning him) is a man-made tradition. Celebrating Christ's birth is a man-made tradition.

 

[Clyde 154]

I'm disappointed in you.

I look at such DISAPPOINTMENT with expectation.........it can be no other way, soon the one's that worship the world and its god (2 Cor. 4:4)allows their hate to pierce that fake pretentious veil of deceit. "Whose hatred is covered (veiled) by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed to the whole congregation. Whoso diggeth a pit, shall fall therein: and he who rolleth a stone it shall it will return upon him.........." Proverbs 26:26-27



"If the world hates you, know that it hated Me before it hated you; If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but, because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of this world, therefore the world hates you.........." -- John 15:18-19

"Its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God........." -- Hebrews 10:31 Therefore I defend the truth, "truth will out............" I have no choice but to work out salvation with fear and trembling, as the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom." -- Proverbs 9:10




Good thing that you are not the one who will judge my life no? The same words that Jesus spoke and the apostles recorded will one day be my only judge (John 12:48, Rev. 20:12)

I am not here to seek accolade, just to defend the truth that exists in the Holy Scriptures. "For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. As it is written; I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning, I will thwart." -- 1 Cor. 1:18-19



That's the problem with "progressive" politics............the proponents thereof constantly concern themselves with feelings and what others might think of them instead of dealing with the reality that surrounds them.

 

[surada]

Your question has been answered by the Word. Move along.

This may help.

You foolish evangelicals, Trump has bewitched you

I believe evangelicals who support Donald Trump are being both blind and foolish to do so and that labeling them as such is not sinful but appropriate and necessary

www.christianpost.com

 

[JustAGuy1]

This may help.

You foolish evangelicals, Trump has bewitched you

I believe evangelicals who support Donald Trump are being both blind and foolish to do so and that labeling them as such is not sinful but appropriate and necessary

www.christianpost.com

Since I am not a Rumpist that means nothing. Plus it has nothing to with the topic at hand.

 

[JustAGuy1]

No it has not. Face facts.

You quoted Mark, and Mark's Gospel is of traditions related to him. Basically, the tradition of Mary being conceived without sin is handed down just like the tradition of which Mark wrote. The traditions of Mary and Jesus are comparable.

What can be regarded as a man-made tradition concerning Mary is that Catholics attend Mass on the day her Immaculate Conception is commemorated. Another man-made tradition: Each Sunday Christians celebrating Christ's life, death, and resurrection (and listening to the traditions concerning him) is a man-made tradition. Celebrating Christ's birth is a man-made tradition.

You're wrong and I'm ok with that.