Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

[notmyfault2020]

Jesus promised

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

I have read the entire Bible and have studied Catholicism and there is nothing contradictory between those 2. But people outside the Catholic Church have been taught to believe (by their human pastors) that there are massive contradictions between those 2 so they unthinkingly believe there are. Why do Protestants choose to believe some non=Catholic over a Catholic? Why is their protestant pastor more believable than the 2000 year old Church?

While not all Catholics understand their Faith, I happen to be one who does. I have knowledge of such things as:

The Ark of the Covenant (OT) ..and how it connects to the present day Tabernacles that house the consecrated Hosts (inside Catholic Churches), so that just as in the old days w/ the Ark of the Covenant and the light perpetually burning in the temple for the Israelites to signify the Presence of God, the tabernacles inside Catholic Churches now house Christ Himself. Transubstantiation is in the Bible.. See where Jesus held the Passover and said that all who ate his flesh, drank his blood (OMG, say the protestants) will have eternal life.. This is the HOST given Catholics at Mass..

 

[norwegen]

Funny thing about pastors is that they’re not biblical. Well, pastors may be, but not the pastoral office or role. And pastors only by interpretation. Take this verse, the only one in which some translations inject the term:

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers. (Eph 4:11)

Shepherds (or pastors, if that’s your fancy) is plural, just as apostles, prophets, evangelists, and teachers are. This passage is directed at a single assembly in Ephesus. In that one assembly were multiple pastors, not just one. It doesn’t support Sola Pastora (single pastor).

This does not describe an office or title. A shepherd tended a family’s flock. He was not set apart from or above the family in some specialized or professional sense. Likewise with the first-century church. Pastors were just a few of the many in the church who served a function. Perhaps, like shepherds, they were the nurturing sort, opening their homes as meeting places or feeding the people. He had no authority. When all are the priesthood of God, no one but Christ alone has authority.

The New Testament doesn’t really define what pastors were; it simply mentions them. So shepherds, of course, would be the logical analogy. They were just parts of the body. The same with priest. But priests in the primitive church were everyone, not just the one guy dressed in black and wearing a backward collar.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Funny thing about pastors is that they’re not biblical. Well, pastors may be, but not the pastoral office or role. And pastors only by interpretation. Take this verse, the only one in which some translations inject the term:

And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers. (Eph 4:11)

Shepherds (or pastors, if that’s your fancy) is plural, just as apostles, prophets, evangelists, and teachers are. This passage is directed at a single assembly in Ephesus. In that one assembly were multiple pastors, not just one. It doesn’t support Sola Pastora (single pastor).

This does not describe an office or title. A shepherd tended a family’s flock. He was not set apart from or above the family in some specialized or professional sense. Likewise with the first-century church. Pastors were just a few of the many in the church who served a function. Perhaps, like shepherds, they were the nurturing sort, opening their homes as meeting places or feeding the people. He had no authority. When all are the priesthood of God, no one but Christ alone has authority.

The New Testament doesn’t really define what pastors were; it simply mentions them. So shepherds, of course, would be the logical analogy. They were just parts of the body. The same with priest. But priests in the primitive church were everyone, not just the one guy dressed in black and wearing a backward collar.

Well, we weren't there in the beginning years of the Church. Writings from that time period show Catholicism... hate to be the bearer of that bad news but that is a fact. The Eucharist is mentioned in these ancient writings, the Real Presence and other Catholic beliefs. People who read the works of the Early Fathers of the Church are amazed to find Catholic stuff there.. and usually convert. As someone once said "To be deep in history is to cease being Protestant" (Fulton Sheen? not sure..)

 

[Thors Provoni]

I think all of Jesus’ half-brothers and half-sisters were from an earlier marriage of Joseph.
If Mary had had other sons, one of them would have taken care of her - but Jesus had John of Zebedee take care of her - so I think Mary only gave birth to Jesus, and that by immaculate conception.

 

[onefour1]

Because the 2000 year old church that you are referring to fell into apostasy shortly after the deaths of many of the apostles.​

The Great Apostasy​

Following the death of Jesus Christ, wicked people persecuted and killed many Church members. Other Church members drifted from the principles taught by Jesus Christ and His Apostles. The Apostles were killed, and priesthood authority—including the keys to direct and receive revelation for the Church—was taken from the earth. Because the Church was no longer led by priesthood authority, error crept into Church teachings. Good people and much truth remained, but the gospel as established by Jesus Christ was lost. This period is called the Great Apostasy.
With the death of the Apostles of Jesus Christ, the truth was lost once again.
This apostasy resulted in the formation of many churches with conflicting teachings. During this time, many men and women sought the truth, but they were unable to find it. Many good people believed in God and Jesus Christ and tried to understand and teach truth, but they did not have the full gospel or priesthood authority. As a result, each generation inherited a state of apostasy as people were influenced by what previous generations passed on, including changes to Christ’s gospel.

God knew there would be an apostasy. Through an Old Testament prophet, He said:
“Behold, the days come … that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
“And [people] shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.”
Amos 8:11–12

Some inspired people, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, recognized that practices and doctrines had been changed or lost. They tried to reform the churches to which they belonged. Without priesthood authority, however, Christ’s gospel could not be returned to its original form. A restoration was needed.

Peter taught the following after Christ's resurrection and ascension into heaven:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

If Jesus is again to be sent unto us during the times of the restitution of all things, then surely there would be a falling away and a need for a restitution of all things which would necessitate Jesus coming again to restore his gospel. I believe that it was through the Prophet Joseph Smith who is the head of the dispensation of the fulness of times, that Jesus came and restored his gospel again upon the earth.

Ephesians 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Apostasy of the Early Christian Church​

• changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant, Isa. 24:5.
• this people draw near me with their mouth, Isa. 29:13.
• darkness shall cover the earth, Isa. 60:2.
• a famine … of hearing the words of the Lord, Amos 8:11.
• his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, Matt. 13:25.
• saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many, Matt. 24:5.
• shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, Matt. 24:24.
• his disciples went back, and walked no more with him, John 6:66.
• shall grievous wolves enter in among you, Acts 20:29.
• there be divisions among you, 1 Cor. 11:18.
• I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him, Gal. 1:6.
• who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey, Gal. 3:1.
• shall not come, except there come a falling away first, 2 Thes. 2:3.
• some having swerved have turned aside, 1 Tim. 1:6.
• giving heed to seducing spirits, 1 Tim. 4:1.
• all they which are in Asia be turned away from me, 2 Tim. 1:15.
• Who concerning the truth have erred, 2 Tim. 2:18.
• Having a form of godliness, but denying the power, 2 Tim. 3:5.
• turn away their ears from the truth … unto fables, 2 Tim. 4:4.
• profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, Titus 1:16.
• From whence come wars and fightings among you, James 4:1.
• false prophets also among the people, 2 Pet. 2:1.
• being led away with the error of the wicked, 2 Pet. 3:17.
• now are there many antichrists, 1 Jn. 2:18.
• many false prophets are gone out into the world, 1 Jn. 4:1.
• certain men crept in … denying the only Lord God, Jude 1:4.
• which say they are apostles, and are not, Rev. 2:2.
• thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, Rev. 3:16.
• to make war with the saints, Rev. 13:7.
• formation of that great and abominable church, 1 Ne. 13:26.
• the Gentiles … have stumbled, 2 Ne. 26:20.
• Gentiles … will be drunken with iniquity, 2 Ne. 27:1.
• transfigured the holy word of God, Morm. 8:33.
• strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant, D&C 1:15.
• Satan … soweth the tares, D&C 86:3.
• darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, D&C 112:23.
• they were all wrong; … their hearts are far from me, JS—H 1:19.
• See also Matt. 24:11; Rom. 11:21; 1 Cor. 1:11; 3:3; Col. 2:22; 1 Tim. 1:19; Titus 1:10; 2 Pet. 2:22; 3 Jn. 1:9; Rev. 2:5; 1 Ne. 11:34.

 

[onefour1]

The gates of hell have not prevailed against the church because it was prophesied that there would be a restitution and the Church of Jesus Christ will prevail against the devil and his minions in the end.

Revelation 12:1,5-6
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The woman is the church and the twelve stars are the apostles of the church. The man child is Jesus Christ. The apostasy is the woman fleeing into the wilderness for a thousand two hundred and threescore days. After that a restitution would occur where Jesus is again sent unto us which was before preached unto us. He was to set up his kingdom on the earth again for the last time. In 1820 the Father and the Son appeared unto Joseph Smith and there began the time of the restitution of all things. The priesthood was restored again and the church also. It was called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 

[BS Filter]

Protestants believe their Bible. The Church is just fine. Every believer is part of the Church, not an organization. The Catholic Church is a business just like the Mormon religion and the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.

 

[notmyfault2020]

I think all of Jesus’ half-brothers and half-sisters were from an earlier marriage of Joseph.
If Mary had had other sons, one of them would have taken care of her - but Jesus had John of Zebedee take care of her - so I think Mary only gave birth to Jesus, and that by immaculate conception.

I don't know that Joseph had kids by a previous marriage. ? That is not mentioned in the Bible that I recall. But you are correct that Mary never lost her virginity..

 

[notmyfault2020]

Because the 2000 year old church that you are referring to fell into apostasy shortly after the deaths of many of the apostles.​

The Great Apostasy​

Rom. 11:21; 1 Cor. 1:11; 3:3; Col. 2:22; 1 Tim. 1:19; Titus 1:10; 2 Pet. 2:22; 3 Jn. 1:9; Rev. 2:5; 1 Ne. 11:34.

you believe a falsehood.

Jesus promised that His Church (which obviously goes back to the time of Jesus) would not fail. "I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

A lot of theologians have said that the gates of hell is heresy.. Protestantism was once called that. But now we have the very wise Francis to tell us that the ancient teachings were wrong... What did we do for 2000 years before he came along?

 

[BS Filter]

I don't know that Joseph had kids by a previous marriage. ? That is not mentioned in the Bible that I recall. But you are correct that Mary never lost her virginity..

Scripture says Joseph didn't know Mary UNTIL she had given birth to Jesus.
Matthew 1:25.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Protestants believe their Bible. The Church is just fine. Every believer is part of the Church, not an organization. The Catholic Church is a business just like the Mormon religion and the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.

No, the TRUE Catholic Church is a CHURCH

The Vatican was stolen from the Catholics 64 years ago... so if you are saying the Vatican is a business.. true.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Scripture says Joseph didn't know Mary UNTIL she had given birth to Jesus.

big deal. Scirpture also says that a woman "had no children until the day she died." Did she have children after she died?

 

[BS Filter]

No, the TRUE Catholic Church is a CHURCH

The Vatican was stolen from the Catholics 64 years ago... so if you are saying the Vatican is a business.. true.

The word Catholic means "Universal". In that regard, the Church is Universal. All of us who have faith in Jesus for salvation.

 

[BS Filter]

big deal. Scirpture also says that a woman "had no children until the day she died." Did she have children after she died?

"a woman" wasn't speaking of Mary. Be honest. If you need to be dishonest, then you're not a Bible scholar, you're a cultist. Mary had other children with Joseph. I believe the Scripture.

 

[hadit]

Jesus promised

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

I have read the entire Bible and have studied Catholicism and there is nothing contradictory between those 2. But people outside the Catholic Church have been taught to believe (by their human pastors) that there are massive contradictions between those 2 so they unthinkingly believe there are. Why do Protestants choose to believe some non=Catholic over a Catholic? Why is their protestant pastor more believable than the 2000 year old Church?

While not all Catholics understand their Faith, I happen to be one who does. I have knowledge of such things as:

The Ark of the Covenant (OT) ..and how it connects to the present day Tabernacles that house the consecrated Hosts (inside Catholic Churches), so that just as in the old days w/ the Ark of the Covenant and the light perpetually burning in the temple for the Israelites to signify the Presence of God, the tabernacles inside Catholic Churches now house Christ Himself. Transubstantiation is in the Bible.. See where Jesus held the Passover and said that all who ate his flesh, drank his blood (OMG, say the protestants) will have eternal life.. This is the HOST given Catholics at Mass..

The short answer to the thread title is simple. They believe their pastors because their churches are part of the Church that Christ founded. As I've told you multiple times and you've refused to deal with, His Church extends far beyond man's artificial denominational boundaries and is found in all who follow Him. The name on the door is irrelevant to that.

 

[notmyfault2020]

"a woman" wasn't speaking of Mary. Be honest. If you need to be dishonest, then you're not a Bible scholar, you're a cultist. Mary had other children with Joseph. I believe the Scripture.

no she didn't. The Church Christ founded taught otherwise and still does. The Vatican is NOT the Catholic Church so I couldn't care less what the past5 or 6 fake popes have said.

Christ founded His Church and it survives but most people don't know where it is anymore.. it's the end times so some of us are not terribly surprised that the lawless, Godless ones would take over the Vatican and call themselves Catholic

 

[hadit]

"a woman" wasn't speaking of Mary. Be honest. If you need to be dishonest, then you're not a Bible scholar, you're a cultist. Mary had other children with Joseph. I believe the Scripture.

You have to stretch pretty far to deny what it says.

 

[hadit]

no she didn't. The Church Christ founded taught otherwise and still does. The Vatican is NOT the Catholic Church so I couldn't care less what the past5 or 6 fake popes have said.

Christ founded His Church and it survives but most people don't know where it is anymore.. it's the end times so some of us are not terribly surprised that the lawless, Godless ones would take over the Vatican and call themselves Catholic

Christ's Church extends far beyond man's artificial denominational boundaries.

 

[BS Filter]

no she didn't. The Church Christ founded taught otherwise and still does. The Vatican is NOT the Catholic Church so I couldn't care less what the past5 or 6 fake popes have said.

Christ founded His Church and it survives but most people don't know where it is anymore.. it's the end times so some of us are not terribly surprised that the lawless, Godless ones would take over the Vatican and call themselves Catholic

Nice rant, but you forgot to address the point that Scripture disagrees with you.

 

[Rigby5]

Jesus promised

"I will build My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." (Mt 16:18)

I have read the entire Bible and have studied Catholicism and there is nothing contradictory between those 2. But people outside the Catholic Church have been taught to believe (by their human pastors) that there are massive contradictions between those 2 so they unthinkingly believe there are. Why do Protestants choose to believe some non=Catholic over a Catholic? Why is their protestant pastor more believable than the 2000 year old Church?

While not all Catholics understand their Faith, I happen to be one who does. I have knowledge of such things as:

The Ark of the Covenant (OT) ..and how it connects to the present day Tabernacles that house the consecrated Hosts (inside Catholic Churches), so that just as in the old days w/ the Ark of the Covenant and the light perpetually burning in the temple for the Israelites to signify the Presence of God, the tabernacles inside Catholic Churches now house Christ Himself. Transubstantiation is in the Bible.. See where Jesus held the Passover and said that all who ate his flesh, drank his blood (OMG, say the protestants) will have eternal life.. This is the HOST given Catholics at Mass..

Catholics who take the Bible literally, are a danger to society, since clearly the Bible is a fake collection of deliberately manipulated manuscripts.
If Catholicism was real, then we would not have had Crusades, Inquisitions, Conquistadors, witch burnings, torture, or even any wars at all.

The truth is that it is unlikely that a single Jesus even existed at all.