Staggering climate contradiction - data that can be fudged says "warming," data that cannot be fudged says "no warming"

[ChemEngineer]

The schoolboy says, "I'm not here to talk about (the stupid things I have said like "The drug war was established to put blacks in prison," or "Abolish the police," I'm here as an athlete and I know nothing about carbon dioxide except it's a gas. Have no idea how many trillions of dollars it will cost for U.S. to become carbon neutral by 2050 or what the effects might be. Let's just do it cause it feels good to us virtue signalers."

Wow, we really want to hear your wisdom.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Let's start with ocean temps.

We all know the Co2 Fraud claims "warmest ever ocean temps" just about every year. If so, then hurricanes would be breaking out. But the strongest decade for canes is still the 1940s...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

Just last summer was "warmest ever." But the cane season was a complete DUD, with just one Atlantic cane reaching Cat 5 for a total of about 15 hours. Water off FLA was called "warmest ever" yet two canes got near FLA and neither got to Cat 5. In 1938, a Cat 5 got to LONG ISLAND, like NEW YORK, a bit further north...

So here we have a classic "what can be fudged and what cannot." It is hard to "fudge" a cane, although cane strength can be "fudged" and in 2014 it was, at least with one "cat 5" that did ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE to Mexico when "it hit as a Cat 5."

It is easy to FUDGE a temperature chart. There is a complete contradiction with the claim of "warmest ever ocean temps" and NO BREAKOUT IN CANES....


from Google

1. The first condition is that ocean waters must be above 26 degrees Celsius (79 degrees Fahrenheit). Below this threshold temperature, hurricanes will not form


HELLO. If the average temp was RISING there would be MORE CANES. THERE ARE NOT MORE CANES.

Hence the claim of "ocean temp rise" is CONTRADICTED/REFUTED by Canes.

It isn't hard to figure out what is going on. The oceans are NOT WARMING and the CANES VALIDATE that claim.

The only "evidence" of "ocean warming" is 100% pure FUDGED FRAUD.




Ditto for "ocean rise." The Co2 FRAUD claims "ocean rise." If there was an ongoing net ice melt on planet Earth, oceans WOULD RISE. They AREN'T. Once again, what can be fudged "ocean rise charts" and what CANNOT BE FUDGED.... actual photos documenting NO OCEAN RISE....

Statue of Liberty
Hawaii 5-0 beach
Venice
Norfolk Naval Base


It is time to wake up and get a clue. The Co2 FRAUD is COMPLETE FRAUD, Planet Earth is NOT WARMING, and increasing atmospheric Co2 did NOT WARM ANYTHING....

I understand what you are doing here but water temperature isn't the only parameter for successful tropical storm development there is also wind shear, Adequate moisture aloft that it continuous and more, here is an article explaining the basics of a storm:

The anatomy of a hurricane, from its eye to its swirling winds​

LINK

=================

There is a large area of water temperature in the Pacific and Atlantic that is ALWAYS at least 80F, but tropical storm development is confined to June-October time frame due to increased favorability of conditions supporting tropical development.

La-Nina years are more favorable to tropical development than El-Nino years.

 

[EMH]

I understand what you are doing here but water temperature isn't the only parameter for successful tropical storm development there is also wind shear, Adequate moisture aloft that it continuous and more, here is an article explaining the basics of a storm:

The anatomy of a hurricane, from its eye to its swirling winds​

LINK

=================

There is a large area of water temperature in the Pacific and Atlantic that is ALWAYS at least 80F, but tropical storm development is confined to June-October time frame due to increased favorability of conditions supporting tropical development.

La-Nina years are more favorable to tropical development than El-Nino years.

WE were told that there was WARMEST EVER WATER off the coast of FLA. We had TWO CANES hit or get really close to FLA and NEITHER got to CAT 5. Wind shear stops canes from forming, and will weaken them, but that is cherry picking. Those two canes did not get to Cat 5 because the Co2 FRAUD is LYING about ocean "warming" not happening. Wind shear is an issue, but not a decades long issue. YOUR SIDE has NO INCREASE in CANES at all. Spinning that is pathetic.

 

[Sunsettommy]

WE were told that there was WARMEST EVER WATER off the coast of FLA. We had TWO CANES hit or get really close to FLA and NEITHER got to CAT 5. Wind shear stops canes from forming, and will weaken them, but that is cherry picking. Those two canes did not get to Cat 5 because the Co2 FRAUD is LYING about ocean "warming" not happening. Wind shear is an issue, but not a decades long issue. YOUR SIDE has NO INCREASE in CANES at all. Spinning that is pathetic.

LOL, I never said there was an increase in tropical storms heck already 2 times in last few days showed there were NO increase in storms.

LINK

LINK

CO2 doesn't warm the ocean waters but that doesn't matter anyway since large areas of the Western Pacific and southern Atlantic are by DEFAULT warm enough for tropical storm development a reality CO2 sniffers never think about which is why their back radiation claims on the ocean are IRRELEVANT for Tropical storm development.

 

[EMH]

LOL, I never said there was an increase in tropical storms heck already 2 times in last few days showed there were NO increase in storms.

LINK

LINK

CO2 doesn't warm the ocean waters but that doesn't matter anyway since large areas of the Western Pacific and southern Atlantic are by DEFAULT warm enough for tropical storm development a reality CO2 sniffers never think about which is why their back radiation claims on the ocean are IRRELEVANT for Tropical storm development.

OK, but let's be serious.

If the oceans really were warming, we would have more and bigger canes, and the unfudgeable truth that there has been no increase in canes is strong evidence that oceans are not warming...

 

[Sunsettommy]

OK, but let's be serious.

If the oceans really were warming, we would have more and bigger canes, and the unfudgeable truth that there has been no increase in canes is strong evidence that oceans are not warming...

Sigh, the ocean waters are already warm enough for hurricanes has been the entire Holocene that is what YOU don't understand, and it was worse during the LIA when it was more common and destructive which indicate that other factors were more favorable and more often to allow for greater increase in cyclone development.

Here is one article covering it,

We’re decoding ancient hurricanes’ traces on the sea floor – and evidence from millennia of Atlantic storms is not good news for the coast

LINK

 

[Stryder50]

Thread title suggests this is the place for now;

Hidden Behind Climate Policies, Data From Nonexistent Temperature Stations​

Hundreds of ‘ghost’ climate stations are no longer operational; instead they are assigned temperatures from surrounding stations.​

.....
When recalling past temperatures to make comparisons to the present, and, more importantly, inform future climate policy, officials such as Mr. Guterres and President Biden rely in part on temperature readings from the United States Historical Climatology Network (USHCN).

The network was established to provide an “accurate, unbiased, up-to-date historical climate record for the United States,” NOAA states, and it has recorded more than 100 years of daily maximum and minimum temperatures from stations across the United States.

The problem, say experts, is that an increasing number of USHCN’s stations don’t exist anymore.

“They are physically gone—but still report data—like magic,” said Lt. Col. John Shewchuk, a certified consulting meteorologist.

“NOAA fabricates temperature data for more than 30 percent of the 1,218 USHCN reporting stations that no longer exist.”

He calls them “ghost” stations.

Mr. Shewchuck said USHCN stations reached a maximum of 1,218 stations in 1957, but after 1990 the number of active stations began declining due to aging equipment and personnel retirements.

NOAA still records data from these ghost stations by taking the temperature readings from surrounding stations, and recording their average for the ghost station, followed by an “E,” for estimate.

The addition of the ghost station data means NOAA’s “monthly and yearly reports are not representative of reality,” said Anthony Watts, a meteorologist and senior fellow for environment and climate at the Heartland Institute.

“If this kind of process were used in a court of law, then the evidence would be thrown out as being polluted.”
....
NOAA’s complete record of USHCN data is available on its website, making it a vital tool for scientists examining temperature trends since before the Industrial Revolution.

Jamal Munshi, emeritus professor at California’s Sonoma State University, wrote in a 2017 paper that because many of the stations in the USHCN, and their data, date back to the 1800s, they’ve been “widely used in the study of global warming.”
...
“In these days of apparent ‘climate crisis,’ you would think that maintaining actual temperature reporting stations would be a top priority—but they instead manufacture data for hundreds of non-existent stations. This is a bizarre way of monitoring a climate claimed to be an existential threat,” he said.

“Observed data is real. Altered and fabricated data is not real. Period.”

The website, noaacrappy, lists all of the ghost, or “zombie” stations, their location, how long they’ve been closed and then links to NOAA’s recordings.
Significantly, the map shows, not all of the stations used to interpolate temperature data are near the closed station. Thus, hypothetically, it’s possible that since Oklahoma City’s stations are all “zombies,” interpolation data is coming from as far away as Gainesville, Texas, which is more than 136 miles away, and Enid, Oklahoma, which is more than 100 miles away.
...
Mr. Shewchuk said the warming the earth has experienced since the 1800s is much less than has been reported, but even if it weren’t, warmer temperatures are natural—not manmade—and not a cause for concern.

“We are still thawing out from the Little Ice Age because the Bray and Eddy solar cycles are still in their warming phases,” he said. “[Carbon dioxide] is a greenhouse gas, but its contribution to today’s warming is trivial. Whenever someone asks me how much ’man-made‘ CO2 is increasing Earth’s temperature, I respond, ’Does the growth of a new eyelash increase your weight?’

“There is no climate emergency. In fact, all measures of severe weather are decreasing—even tornadoes and hurricanes. Furthermore, global warming (at least the little that there is) and increasing CO2 are good for life on Earth. History clearly shows us that life thrives during warm periods (like the Medieval Warm Period) and suffers during cool periods (like the Little Ice Age).

He pointed out that even NOAA and NASA report that increased CO2 has “greened the planet” and increased plant growth, which has benefited food production.

“We should celebrate CO2—not demonize it.”
....

Hidden Behind Climate Policies, Data From Nonexistent Temperature Stations

Hundreds of ‘ghost’ climate stations are no longer operational; instead they are assigned temperatures from surrounding stations.

www.theepochtimes.com

...
Note that underlined blue type are links to supporting articles.

"Never let a crisis go to waste", even if you have to make-up one!

 

[EMH]

Sigh, the ocean waters are already warm enough for hurricanes has been the entire Holocene that is what YOU don't understand, and it was worse during the LIA when it was more common and destructive which indicate that other factors were more favorable and more often to allow for greater increase in cyclone development.

Here is one article covering it,

We’re decoding ancient hurricanes’ traces on the sea floor – and evidence from millennia of Atlantic storms is not good news for the coast

LINK

WHY is the strongest decade for canes the 1940s?

If the Co2 FRAUD gets you to parrot fudged "data" and outright fraud like LIA, then you are lost....

You cannot fix the "problem" if you do not diagnose it correctly, and you aren't even close if you accept the Co2 FRAUD's bullshit definition of "ice age."

You are arguing that Antarctica today is not an "ice age," that a continent covered under 2+ miles of ice is NOT AN ICE AGE.

That is FUCKING PATHETIC.

WTF is Antarctica and why is it NOT an ICE AGE today???

 

[Sparker]

I don't need data from some distant location to see climate change happening. My area is becoming warmer and wetter, with less snow and more rain. Businesses that need snow are losing money. In coastal regions with very shallow slopes, an inch of sea level rise could be miles of change in coastline. That would be a visible change.
Some of the climate hysteria is due to so much expensive real estate being on the coasts, where it will be flooded and destroyed, or abandoned in drought and fire. That's part of the risk of building there.

 

[HikerGuy83]

EMH was caught making up a lie by showing the sea level at the statue of liberty being the same 100 years apart. He forgot to take into account tides.

There can't be a discussion when the OP is operating at a child's level of understanding.

I think you attempt to attack the messenger.

He's actually quite versed, albeit highly partisan.

I appreciate the information he shares.

Have not seen much from you.

 

[HikerGuy83]

On of my ongoing points is that denialism, being purely political kookery, is now only pushed now by right-wing uber-fascist cranks. Denialism is a mandatory belief of that cult.

Thus, I thank the resident uber-fascist cranks here for jumping in to prove my point so conclusively. They're literally not capable of discussing the topic without melting down into various hysterical political conspiracy theories.

If right-wing politics vanished, denialism would instanlty vanish along with it, because it's pure politics.

If left-wing politics vanished, the science wouldn't change a bit, because it's actual science.

Sorry, but the data you meant to include seemed to have gotten cut off from your post.

Hope you can post it for us.

 

[mamooth]

Sorry, but the data you meant to include seemed to have gotten cut off from your post.

Hope you can post it for us.

The data is this thread, where all the righties melted down into loony conspiracy theories. They're babbling about COVID and TheJoos.

Are you denying that such data exists? That is, how dishonest are you willing to get on behalf of your cult?

 

[Sunsettommy]

WHY is the strongest decade for canes the 1940s?

If the Co2 FRAUD gets you to parrot fudged "data" and outright fraud like LIA, then you are lost....

You cannot fix the "problem" if you do not diagnose it correctly, and you aren't even close if you accept the Co2 FRAUD's bullshit definition of "ice age."

You are arguing that Antarctica today is not an "ice age," that a continent covered under 2+ miles of ice is NOT AN ICE AGE.

That is FUCKING PATHETIC.

WTF is Antarctica and why is it NOT an ICE AGE today???

It is clear you don't understand why Tropical storm frequency varies by the decade despite the ocean waters ALWAYS warm enough for their development.

Try reading the paper.

 

[HikerGuy83]

The data is this thread, where all the righties melted down into loony conspiracy theories. They're babbling about COVID and TheJoos.

Are you denying that such data exists? That is, how dishonest are you willing to get on behalf of your cult?

Uh, I am sure you won't mind bringing it forward then.

Let's see the data and we'll conclude who is the intellectually dishonest one.

 

[justoffal]

Let's start with ocean temps.

We all know the Co2 Fraud claims "warmest ever ocean temps" just about every year. If so, then hurricanes would be breaking out. But the strongest decade for canes is still the 1940s...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

Just last summer was "warmest ever." But the cane season was a complete DUD, with just one Atlantic cane reaching Cat 5 for a total of about 15 hours. Water off FLA was called "warmest ever" yet two canes got near FLA and neither got to Cat 5. In 1938, a Cat 5 got to LONG ISLAND, like NEW YORK, a bit further north...

So here we have a classic "what can be fudged and what cannot." It is hard to "fudge" a cane, although cane strength can be "fudged" and in 2014 it was, at least with one "cat 5" that did ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE to Mexico when "it hit as a Cat 5."

It is easy to FUDGE a temperature chart. There is a complete contradiction with the claim of "warmest ever ocean temps" and NO BREAKOUT IN CANES....


from Google

1. The first condition is that ocean waters must be above 26 degrees Celsius (79 degrees Fahrenheit). Below this threshold temperature, hurricanes will not form


HELLO. If the average temp was RISING there would be MORE CANES. THERE ARE NOT MORE CANES.

Hence the claim of "ocean temp rise" is CONTRADICTED/REFUTED by Canes.

It isn't hard to figure out what is going on. The oceans are NOT WARMING and the CANES VALIDATE that claim.

The only "evidence" of "ocean warming" is 100% pure FUDGED FRAUD.




Ditto for "ocean rise." The Co2 FRAUD claims "ocean rise." If there was an ongoing net ice melt on planet Earth, oceans WOULD RISE. They AREN'T. Once again, what can be fudged "ocean rise charts" and what CANNOT BE FUDGED.... actual photos documenting NO OCEAN RISE....

Statue of Liberty
Hawaii 5-0 beach
Venice
Norfolk Naval Base


It is time to wake up and get a clue. The Co2 FRAUD is COMPLETE FRAUD, Planet Earth is NOT WARMING, and increasing atmospheric Co2 did NOT WARM ANYTHING....

RACIST! YOU NO GOOD FOR NUTHIN HATER OF MINORITIES!
I WANT REPARATIONS NOW! I'M NOT WAITING TILL HELL FREEZES OVER!.....oh wait.....

 

[EMH]

It is clear you don't understand why Tropical storm frequency varies by the decade despite the ocean waters ALWAYS warm enough for their development.

Try reading the paper.

Laughable. As laughable as saying every old photo of "ocean level" at a given point was done AT HIGH TIDE, which is what the Co2 FRAUD argues.


There is data and there is fudge. As documented many times, and clearly documented by the WSJ and others, the actual data shows


1. NO WARMING in the ATMOSPHERE
2. NO WARMING in the OCEANS
3. NO ONGOING NET ICE MELT
4. NO OCEAN RISE
5. NO BREAKOUT in CANES


Now to argue that the ups and downs of "wind shear" and other issues has relevance to decade by decade cane stats is pathetic. Yes, a given week has different wind shear. Longer term, you are arguing that the "wind shear" has accelerated for decades to cover up? the "warming?" of the oceans that HAS NOT PRODUCED ANY INCREASE AT ALL IN CANES WHICH ARE COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON OCEAN TEMPS...

MORON!!!

 

[Sunsettommy]

Laughable. As laughable as saying every old photo of "ocean level" at a given point was done AT HIGH TIDE, which is what the Co2 FRAUD argues.


There is data and there is fudge. As documented many times, and clearly documented by the WSJ and others, the actual data shows


1. NO WARMING in the ATMOSPHERE
2. NO WARMING in the OCEANS
3. NO ONGOING NET ICE MELT
4. NO OCEAN RISE
5. NO BREAKOUT in CANES


Now to argue that the ups and downs of "wind shear" and other issues has relevance to decade by decade cane stats is pathetic. Yes, a given week has different wind shear. Longer term, you are arguing that the "wind shear" has accelerated for decades to cover up? the "warming?" of the oceans that HAS NOT PRODUCED ANY INCREASE AT ALL IN CANES WHICH ARE COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON OCEAN TEMPS...

MORON!!!

LOL, you are not trying to discuss it just scream which means you don't know and your continual failure to address it means you are not here to talk.

Never said ocean waters is warming what I was pointing out that year around in the tropical waters are normally warm enough for cyclone development which is 80F but the season is cyclic to June-October in the N. Hemisphere for reasons you still don't know, and Wind shear is an actual meteorological event that is commonly measured to assess Tropical and hurricane development.

You should dial down your emotionalism............ as it makes you foolish.

I haven't supported the warmist/alarmist wild and lying claims about Tropical storm trends and hurricane heck I posted this several times already showing no such increase and actual declines that goes the opposite of the climate cultist baloney.


=======

Storminess has not gone up, and there’s been no increase in hurricane strength or frequency … no “emergency” there.

First, the strength.

And here is the global hurricane frequency, both for all hurricanes and for the strongest hurricanes.

And here are the numbers of Pacific typhoons (hurricanes) from the Japanese Meteorological Agency.

And here are a century and a half of records of the number of landfalling hurricanes in Florida.

Finally, here are the declining numbers of both strong and average cyclones (Southern Hemisphere hurricanes) in Australian waters, from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BOM).

LINK

 

[EMH]

LOL, you are not trying to discuss it just scream which means you don't know and your continual failure to address it means you are not here to talk.

Never said ocean waters is warming what I was pointing out that year around in the tropical waters are normally warm enough for cyclone development which is 80F but the season is cyclic to June-October in the N. Hemisphere for reasons you still don't know, and Wind shear is an actual meteorological event that is commonly measured to assess Tropical and hurricane development.

You should dial down your emotionalism............ as it makes you foolish.

I haven't supported the warmist/alarmist wild and lying claims about Tropical storm trends and hurricane heck I posted this several times already showing no such increase and actual declines that goes the opposite of the climate cultist baloney.


=======

Storminess has not gone up, and there’s been no increase in hurricane strength or frequency … no “emergency” there.

First, the strength.

View attachment 935657

And here is the global hurricane frequency, both for all hurricanes and for the strongest hurricanes.

View attachment 935658

And here are the numbers of Pacific typhoons (hurricanes) from the Japanese Meteorological Agency.

View attachment 935659

And here are a century and a half of records of the number of landfalling hurricanes in Florida.

View attachment 935660

Finally, here are the declining numbers of both strong and average cyclones (Southern Hemisphere hurricanes) in Australian waters, from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BOM).

View attachment 935661

LINK

OK, so you agree there is NO OCEAN WARMING, and hence NO INCREASE IN CANES....


And yet you are there denying the reality of what does cause Earth climate change, the only question is why...

Since Co2 does nothing, what does cause Earth climate change?

The first part is understanding what is climate and what is weather. Climate is the parameters of Earth that allow certain ranges of weather. We don't get Cat 10 canes now, but we would if Earth had no ice. What are the parameters of climate that can change? Ocean levels Atmospheric...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Dagosa]

Age).

He pointed out that even NOAA and NASA report that increased CO2 has “greened the planet” and increased plant growth, which has benefited food production.

So that means you now trust NOAA and NASA on this matter. Good, now crawl back in your cave "…

 

[Stryder50]

So that means you now trust NOAA and NASA on this matter. Good, now crawl back in your cave "…

Sorry "Charlie" but you haven't a clue what you are talking about nor did you grasp the concepts and contents of my post!

I disputed most of the false conclusions reached by the NOAA and NASA doctored/tainted data on this matter, which seeks a funding supported agenda, and subscribe to a more objective conclusion that human causes are minor to insignificant on the Global Climate Change Factors and Scales!

We humans are at best scrambling to adjust to natural causes out side of out influence and control!

For millions of years Nature has run it's course regardless of what we Humans have done and such still continues to be the Norm!

Meanwhile you fail as usual to grasp the basics of science and maths that apply to the topics under discussion here.

I'd suggest you consider a repeat of the K-12 schooling and basic knowledge you failed to learn the first time through.