No but the reason why is not because of the betrayal but because of the time line and definitions. By definition a Christian is someone who believes a certain set of things, but one of them is a belief in the resurrection of Jesus. This was established at the First Council of Nicea and by that definition it means that, according to scripture, the first "Christian" was Mary Magdalene because although the gospels differ regarding who was present when Jesus' tomb was found empty, Mary was always among them. Thus, Magdalene's real significance is not all that Da Vinci Code bullshit, for which there is no evidence at all, but that it was her who may have been the first believer in the resurrection and thus the first "Christian" as we define it.
Since scripture tells us that Judas either hanged himself or fell off a cliff prior to the resurrection or Jesus revealing Himself, then Judas could not be a Christian because he was dead before belief in the resurrection began to take root. Thus Judas could not have "remained a Christian" because Christianity did not exist until he was dead. So he never was one to begin with.
Beyond that, you have to keep in mind that the apostles did not believe they were starting a new religion. They believed they were guiding Judaism into the next (and final phase) according to the Messianic prophecies. This is spelled out quite clearly in the genealogy outlined in Matthew 1 wherein every 14 generations something significant happens that represents a radical change in the course of Judaism.
It is written in Luke 17: 4 "Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying 'I repent,' you must forgive them." Thus we can argue that had Judas repented and asked forgiveness he would have been forgiven, but he died (either by accident or by his own hand) prior to that and so.....well...tough titty for him.
Perhaps another way to word it is, was Judas still a believer in Jesus after betraying him? If not, his life proves that people can disbelieve after their believing.
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Hi... You sound like you are saying that every person is a God unto his or her self, or is worthy of his or her own worship in and of his/her self. If you are saying that, would you be able to offer a proof of that?
A1977
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No but the reason why is not because of the betrayal but because of the time line and definitions. By definition a Christian is someone who believes a certain set of things, but one of them is a belief in the resurrection of Jesus. This was established at the First Council of Nicea and by that definition it means that, according to scripture, the first "Christian" was Mary Magdalene because although the gospels differ regarding who was present when Jesus' tomb was found empty, Mary was always among them. Thus, Magdalene's real significance is not all that Da Vinci Code bullshit, for which there is no evidence at all, but that it was her who may have been the first believer in the resurrection and thus the first "Christian" as we define it.
Since scripture tells us that Judas either hanged himself or fell off a cliff prior to the resurrection or Jesus revealing Himself, then Judas could not be a Christian because he was dead before belief in the resurrection began to take root. Thus Judas could not have "remained a Christian" because Christianity did not exist until he was dead. So he never was one to begin with.
Beyond that, you have to keep in mind that the apostles did not believe they were starting a new religion. They believed they were guiding Judaism into the next (and final phase) according to the Messianic prophecies. This is spelled out quite clearly in the genealogy outlined in Matthew 1 wherein every 14 generations something significant happens that represents a radical change in the course of Judaism.
It is written in Luke 17: 4 "Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying 'I repent,' you must forgive them." Thus we can argue that had Judas repented and asked forgiveness he would have been forgiven, but he died (either by accident or by his own hand) prior to that and so.....well...tough titty for him.
Perhaps another way to word it is, was Judas still a believer in Jesus after betraying him? If not, his life proves that people can disbelieve after their believing.
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Well I guess I would answer that it depends on which book you read. In Matthew, Judas hanged himself in despair. I suppose the argument could be made that it was an act of desperation that represents a form of repentance (although I think that would be a stretch to connect suicide out of despair to repentance). So according to Matthew, I think you could make the argument that Judas did still believe in Jesus and killed himself out of horror that he had betrayed the Son of Man.
But now let's look at Luke/Acts. Well according to that there is no sign of despair or repentance. Judas just fell off a cliff and broke open and died. Hence Matthias was chosen to replace him...because remember....there had to be 12 disciples because they were to represent the 12 tribes of Israel. So according to Luke/Acts there is at least no evidence that Judas repented or continued to believe in Jesus.
So it depends on which books you read
Hi
A1977
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How did you get "being your own God" from "Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamism and can be greatly compatible with one another"?
If anything, I believe everyone should be their own prophet... and their own messiah.
Hi
A1977
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How did you get "being your own God" from "Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamism and can be greatly compatible with one another"?
If anything, I believe everyone should be their own prophet... and their own messiah.
No but the reason why is not because of the betrayal but because of the time line and definitions. By definition a Christian is someone who believes a certain set of things, but one of them is a belief in the resurrection of Jesus. This was established at the First Council of Nicea and by that definition it means that, according to scripture, the first "Christian" was Mary Magdalene because although the gospels differ regarding who was present when Jesus' tomb was found empty, Mary was always among them. Thus, Magdalene's real significance is not all that Da Vinci Code bullshit, for which there is no evidence at all, but that it was her who may have been the first believer in the resurrection and thus the first "Christian" as we define it.
Since scripture tells us that Judas either hanged himself or fell off a cliff prior to the resurrection or Jesus revealing Himself, then Judas could not be a Christian because he was dead before belief in the resurrection began to take root. Thus Judas could not have "remained a Christian" because Christianity did not exist until he was dead. So he never was one to begin with.
Beyond that, you have to keep in mind that the apostles did not believe they were starting a new religion. They believed they were guiding Judaism into the next (and final phase) according to the Messianic prophecies. This is spelled out quite clearly in the genealogy outlined in Matthew 1 wherein every 14 generations something significant happens that represents a radical change in the course of Judaism.
It is written in Luke 17: 4 "Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying 'I repent,' you must forgive them." Thus we can argue that had Judas repented and asked forgiveness he would have been forgiven, but he died (either by accident or by his own hand) prior to that and so.....well...tough titty for him.
Perhaps another way to word it is, was Judas still a believer in Jesus after betraying him? If not, his life proves that people can disbelieve after their believing.
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Well I guess I would answer that it depends on which book you read. In Matthew, Judas hanged himself in despair. I suppose the argument could be made that it was an act of desperation that represents a form of repentance (although I think that would be a stretch to connect suicide out of despair to repentance). So according to Matthew, I think you could make the argument that Judas did still believe in Jesus and killed himself out of horror that he had betrayed the Son of Man.
But now let's look at Luke/Acts. Well according to that there is no sign of despair or repentance. Judas just fell off a cliff and broke open and died. Hence Matthias was chosen to replace him...because remember....there had to be 12 disciples because they were to represent the 12 tribes of Israel. So according to Luke/Acts there is at least no evidence that Judas repented or continued to believe in Jesus.
So it depends on which books you read
Actually the Book of Acts says that the Holy Ghost prophesied against Judas' life & deeds. Acts 1:15-19, KJV says:
(15)And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) (16)Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. (17)For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. (18)Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (19)And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
This Scripture plainly says that Judas turned to iniquity.
Thus it is clear that Judas became a disbeliever in Jesus, or as it were, "left the church."
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So was Judas still a Christian after he betrayed Jesus?
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No but the reason why is not because of the betrayal but because of the time line and definitions. By definition a Christian is someone who believes a certain set of things, but one of them is a belief in the resurrection of Jesus. This was established at the First Council of Nicea and by that definition it means that, according to scripture, the first "Christian" was Mary Magdalene because although the gospels differ regarding who was present when Jesus' tomb was found empty, Mary was always among them. Thus, Magdalene's real significance is not all that Da Vinci Code bullshit, for which there is no evidence at all, but that it was her who may have been the first believer in the resurrection and thus the first "Christian" as we define it.
Since scripture tells us that Judas either hanged himself or fell off a cliff prior to the resurrection or Jesus revealing Himself, then Judas could not be a Christian because he was dead before belief in the resurrection began to take root. Thus Judas could not have "remained a Christian" because Christianity did not exist until he was dead. So he never was one to begin with.
Beyond that, you have to keep in mind that the apostles did not believe they were starting a new religion. They believed they were guiding Judaism into the next (and final phase) according to the Messianic prophecies. This is spelled out quite clearly in the genealogy outlined in Matthew 1 wherein every 14 generations something significant happens that represents a radical change in the course of Judaism.
It is written in Luke 17: 4 "Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying 'I repent,' you must forgive them." Thus we can argue that had Judas repented and asked forgiveness he would have been forgiven, but he died (either by accident or by his own hand) prior to that and so.....well...tough titty for him.
Perhaps another way to word it is, was Judas still a believer in Jesus after betraying him? If not, his life proves that people can disbelieve after their believing.
-
Well I guess I would answer that it depends on which book you read. In Matthew, Judas hanged himself in despair. I suppose the argument could be made that it was an act of desperation that represents a form of repentance (although I think that would be a stretch to connect suicide out of despair to repentance). So according to Matthew, I think you could make the argument that Judas did still believe in Jesus and killed himself out of horror that he had betrayed the Son of Man.
But now let's look at Luke/Acts. Well according to that there is no sign of despair or repentance. Judas just fell off a cliff and broke open and died. Hence Matthias was chosen to replace him...because remember....there had to be 12 disciples because they were to represent the 12 tribes of Israel. So according to Luke/Acts there is at least no evidence that Judas repented or continued to believe in Jesus.
So it depends on which books you read
Actually the Book of Acts says that the Holy Ghost prophesied against Judas' life & deeds. Acts 1:15-19, KJV says:
(15)And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) (16)Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. (17)For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. (18)Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (19)And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
This Scripture plainly says that Judas turned to iniquity.
Thus it is clear that Judas became a disbeliever in Jesus, or as it were, "left the church."
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That'as actually a very deep discussion. In a certain perspective you are correct, but it's more complicated than that and it's really not paramount to this discussion. As I have said, my feeling is that Judas fucked up, there was no redemption, and that Judas was not an innocent who was simply working within "the master plan". I mean he was...but he wasn't. But it's far more complicated
I heard someone say once a member of a religion always a member of that religion but if someone leaves the Christian church and becomes an atheist, is that person still a Christian? Or if a Christian converts to Islam is that person still a Christian?...
No, that person is no longer a Christian for just by having left this ridiculous, money-grubbing faith she has proven that she is much too intelligent to ever again be labeled as being a member of it.
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I heard someone say once a member of a religion always a member of that religion but if someone leaves the Christian church and becomes an atheist, is that person still a Christian? Or if a Christian converts to Islam is that person still a Christian?...
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Leaving something means you are 'leaving' it. You aren't interested anymore. If the place burned down you'd say 'that's a shame' and then switch channels. If another religion's god showed up you'd say 'see, I knew something was up'.
On the other hand watch a few of the documentaries where people tried to leave Scientology. They'll cling to you like leeches on a hairless cat.
No but the reason why is not because of the betrayal but because of the time line and definitions. By definition a Christian is someone who believes a certain set of things, but one of them is a belief in the resurrection of Jesus. This was established at the First Council of Nicea and by that definition it means that, according to scripture, the first "Christian" was Mary Magdalene because although the gospels differ regarding who was present when Jesus' tomb was found empty, Mary was always among them. Thus, Magdalene's real significance is not all that Da Vinci Code bullshit, for which there is no evidence at all, but that it was her who may have been the first believer in the resurrection and thus the first "Christian" as we define it.
Since scripture tells us that Judas either hanged himself or fell off a cliff prior to the resurrection or Jesus revealing Himself, then Judas could not be a Christian because he was dead before belief in the resurrection began to take root. Thus Judas could not have "remained a Christian" because Christianity did not exist until he was dead. So he never was one to begin with.
Beyond that, you have to keep in mind that the apostles did not believe they were starting a new religion. They believed they were guiding Judaism into the next (and final phase) according to the Messianic prophecies. This is spelled out quite clearly in the genealogy outlined in Matthew 1 wherein every 14 generations something significant happens that represents a radical change in the course of Judaism.
It is written in Luke 17: 4 "Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying 'I repent,' you must forgive them." Thus we can argue that had Judas repented and asked forgiveness he would have been forgiven, but he died (either by accident or by his own hand) prior to that and so.....well...tough titty for him.
Perhaps another way to word it is, was Judas still a believer in Jesus after betraying him? If not, his life proves that people can disbelieve after their believing.
-
I heard someone say once a member of a religion always a member of that religion but if someone leaves the Christian church and becomes an atheist, is that person still a Christian? Or if a Christian converts to Islam is that person still a Christian?...
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