Zone1 What Is Christian Nationalism?

[dudmuck]

That's nice. It doesn't change my position. The left is up in arms over Christians. Specifically Christians who are Republicans.

 

[ding]

It's great when people who otherwise have no use for Jesus invoke him for political purpose.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Just listening to American family radio this morning the Jenna Ellis program. It sure seems the white Christian nationalist are really worked up about trumps bloodbath comments this past weekend.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

America's Christian heritage is like hot coals on the heads of militant atheists.

Wonder why?

Doubting Thomas (Jefferson) and the Founders’ Great Mistake

www.catholicworldreport.com

Just ask Amherst College President Anthony Marx about the “bad old days,” before religion was privatized:

In the medieval epochs of Europe, leading right up to the edge of the modern, authority was established by deity or absolutism. Monarchs and priests directed humanity’s understanding of nature, of sickness and health, of earth’s horizon, of the motion of the stars. It is hard for you now to imagine that way of life, in which such authority was not questioned. But the power of individual insight, yearning and industry were just beginning to coalesce, producing revolutions that replaced despotism with democracy, feudalism with capitalism and fundamentalism with religious choice…
Amherst prizes individual reason over unearned authority…We believe in “progress”: that new knowledge advances us. Just as we believe in science, we also respect and take strength from faith, not as a closed system but as an inspiration [i.e. private not overarching], as another kind of journey, for each to examine and decide for herself or himself. Although we know we cannot reach perfection [i.e. certitude], we believe in striving for the improvement for all.[13] (Emphasis mine)

Jefferson was a militant therist along with the other first generation revolutionary presidents of the United States.

Sending cannot comprehend, militant theism

 

[ding]

Wonder why?

No, I don't. Communist nationalists are hammers looking for nails.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Communist nationalists

PBS says we must fear the "white Christian Nationalist" 240213 {post•1}

What is Christian nationalism and why it raises concerns about threats to democracy

Christian nationalism is an ideology that is based around the idea that this is a Christian nation, that this was founded as a Christian nation, and, therefore, it should be a Christian nation today and should be so in the future.


What Is Christian Nationalism? 240327 {Pos•246}

I am not suggesting and never have that America was founded as a Communist Nation . I have never heard of anyone that had suggested such nonsense. Saint Ding had been lured into spewing absurdly irrational replies in hus defense of his sympathies fir white Christian nationalist ideology
and spreading their myths.

 

[LibertyKid]

Easily put Bill Clinton and JFK in this pic too... lol

 

[surada]

Easily put Bill Clinton and JFK in this pic too... lol

They didn't brag about their infidelities.

 

[LibertyKid]

Here is where Christians get it wrong:

God to the Jews in the OT era: Hey, I'm God, I have a plan, will you take this covenant with me and represent me to world?
Abraham: Sure, what do I need to do to sign this covenant?
God: Well, let's talk about that....

Centuries later

Jesus to the Jews: You're all wrong about God, and did a terrible Job of representing God to the World. I am God, follow me to see the true God.
Jews: Fuck that - Crucify him.
Jesus - Okay fine, I will remove the covenant between you (Israel) and God.

Jesus dies, the national covenant between God and nation is NO MORE. Salvation is now personal and individual. There is NO national protection from God for having a god fearing president.

Christians, stop being ignorant to your own damn theology you ignorant fools.

 

[LibertyKid]

They didn't brag about their infidelities.

Clinton only lied to the American public, under oath and was a known womanizer. But the Democrats then, made every justification for Clinton for having sexual contact with an intern inside the oval office.

My point, non of these men, should ever be placed on a pedestal and touted as a moral and spiritual compass. Another point, both sides will apologize for the evils of their men and woman while demonizing the evils of their enemies.

 

[surada]

Clinton only lied to the American public, under oath and was a known womanizer. But the Democrats then, made every justification for Clinton for having sexual contact with an intern inside the oval office.

My point, non of these men, should ever be placed on a pedestal and touted as a moral and spiritual compass. Another point, both sides will apologize for the evils of their men and woman while demonizing the evils of their enemies.

Nobody has justified Clinton's behavior.

 

[Libby von H]

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

I know it's antithetical to everything I know about America/USA

My rule is never call someone what they don't call themself. How can something be antithetical when it is you slapping the label on.
You would call me a CN but I do not call myself one.

 

[LibertyKid]

Nobody has justified Clinton's behavior.

Maybe better stated this way. The American public was quick to forgive and let live with Clinton. Yet, Trump, has gone through years of public, political, and MSM propaganda to remove him from office or keep him from running again with no in office Scandal like Clinton's. It amazing how quickly the Democrats forget about Clinton.

But, long before we had Social Media, forums, and the various tools we had today, many Democrats were willing to forgive the man for his Presidential Affair.

Here is an interesting book on the subject.. Wonder what it's about.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/420644

Oh, and here is this:

Clinton's impeachment barely dented his public support, and it turned off many Americans

The circumstances were very different during the Clinton impeachment crisis, and so was U.S. public opinion about the push for impeachment.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Libby von H]

What is Christian nationalism?

Christian nationalism is the belief that the American nation is defined by Christianity, and that the government should take active steps to keep it that way. Popularly, Christian nationalists assert that America is and must remain a “Christian nation”—not merely as an observation about American history, but as a prescriptive program for what America must continue to be in the future. Scholars like Samuel Huntington have made a similar argument: that America is defined by its “Anglo-Protestant” past and that we will lose our identity and our freedom if we do not preserve our cultural inheritance.

Christian nationalists do not reject the First Amendment and do not advocate for theocracy, but they do believe that Christianity should enjoy a privileged position in the public square. The term “Christian nationalism,” is relatively new, and its advocates generally do not use it of themselves, but it accurately describes American nationalists who believe American identity is inextricable from Christianity.

What is the problem with nationalism?

Humanity is not easily divisible into mutually distinct cultural units. Cultures overlap and their borders are fuzzy. Since cultural units are fuzzy, they make a poor fit as the foundation for political order. Cultural identities are fluid and hard to draw boundaries around, but political boundaries are hard and semipermanent. Attempting to found political legitimacy on cultural likeness means political order will constantly be in danger of being felt as illegitimate by some group or other. Cultural pluralism is essentially inevitable in every nation.

Is that really a problem, or just an abstract worry?

It is a serious problem. When nationalists go about constructing their nation, they have to define who is, and who is not, part of the nation. But there are always dissidents and minorities who do not or cannot conform to the nationalists’ preferred cultural template. In the absence of moral authority, nationalists can only establish themselves by force. Scholars are almost unanimous that nationalist governments tend to become authoritarian and oppressive in practice. For example, in past generations, to the extent that the United States had a quasi-established official religion of Protestantism, it did not respect true religious freedom. Worse, the United States and many individual states used Christianity as a prop to support slavery and segregation.

What do Christian nationalists want that is different from normal Christian engagement in politics?

Christian nationalists want to define America as a Christian nation and they want the government to promote a specific cultural template as the official culture of the country. Some have advocated for an amendment to the Constitution to recognize America’s Christian heritage, others to reinstitute prayer in public schools. Some work to enshrine a Christian nationalist interpretation of American history in school curricula, including that America has a special relationship with God or has been “chosen” by him to carry out a special mission on earth. Others advocate for immigration restrictions specifically to prevent a change to American religious and ethnic demographics or a change to American culture. Some want to empower the government to take stronger action to circumscribe immoral behavior.

Some—again, like the scholar Samuel Huntington—have argued that the United States government must defend and enshrine its predominant “Anglo-Protestant” culture to ensure the survival of American democracy. And sometimes Christian nationalism is most evident not in its political agenda, but in the sort of attitude with which it is held: an unstated presumption that Christians are entitled to primacy of place in the public square because they are heirs of the true or essential heritage of American culture, that Christians have a presumptive right to define the meaning of the American experiment because they see themselves as America’s architects, first citizens, and guardians.

How is this dangerous for America?

Christian nationalism tends to treat other Americans as second-class citizens. If it were fully implemented, it would not respect the full religious liberty of all Americans. Empowering the state through “morals legislation” to regulate conduct always carries the risk of overreaching, setting a bad precedent, and creating governing powers that could be used later be used against Christians. Additionally, Christian nationalism is an ideology held overwhelmingly by white Americans, and it thus tends to exacerbate racial and ethnic cleavages. In recent years, the movement has grown increasingly characterized by fear and by a belief that Christians are victims of persecution. Some are beginning to argue that American Christians need to prepare to fight, physically, to preserve America’s identity, an argument that played into the January 6 riot.

How is Christian nationalism dangerous to the church?

Christian nationalism takes the name of Christ for a worldly political agenda, proclaiming that its program is the political program for every true believer. That is wrong in principle, no matter what the agenda is, because only the church is authorized to proclaim the name of Jesus and carry his standard into the world. It is even worse with a political movement that champions some causes that are unjust, which is the case with Christian nationalism and its attendant illiberalism. In that case, Christian nationalism is calling evil good and good evil; it is taking the name of Christ as a fig leaf to cover its political program, treating the message of Jesus as a tool of political propaganda and the church as the handmaiden and cheerleader of the state.

More at the link below...

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

Sounds scary to me! What do you think?

Exept this is all wrong...

WRONG THe main idea comes from an Orthodox Jew,Yoram Hazony

WRONG that it is a new idea, in almost all folks associated with what you call 'christian nationalism' it is a return
n his Farewell Address of September 1796, Washington called religion, as the source of morality, "a necessary spring of popular government," while Adams claimed that statesmen "may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand."

WRONG Religious liberty came from Christianity and was not despite it. Read the 2000 page 3 volume 8 years work on the 118 Founders religious views by Judge Boonstra, entitled IN THEIR OWN WORDS.

WRONG even logically...you built one of your main points on what you admit is "unstated presumption" THat would not be allowed in a court, a debate , or a school paper.


When liars lie it's a hoot if you have an education. BTW I would debate you on any topic related to this. Purely on the poor and unfounded nature of your silly argument.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

n his Farewell Address of September 1796, Washington called religion, as the source of morality, "a necessary spring of popular government," while Adams claimed that statesmen "may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand."

Washington was a Freemason and Adams was a Unitarian. Neither one of them believed in the divinity of Jesus Christ, original sin or the concept that God is three in one, then one part of him came to earth, preached for a while and got himself dead and buried, three days later he rose from the dead and ascended back to heaven. No, our first two presidents did not believe in any of that what Jefferson called Hocus Pocus.

Bottom line our first four presidents were not Christians.

 

[Libby von H]

What Is Christian Nationalism?​

I know it's antithetical to everything I know about America/USA

Well, it can't be antithetical to everything you know unless you don't know much ....

In his Farewell Address of September 1796, Washington called religion, as the source of morality, "a necessary spring of popular government," while Adams claimed that statesmen "may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand."

As to your implication you might want to go into witness protection so people don't laugh at you in public

Here is what John Adams says to atheists


The Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations.

John Adams

In the future don't base your opinions on a vast knowledge you don't at all possess

 

[Libby von H]

Washington was a Freemason and Adams was a Unitarian. Neither one of them believed in the divinity of Jesus Christ, original sin or the concept that God is three in one, then one part of him came to earth, preached for a while and got himself dead and buried, three days later he rose from the dead and ascended back to heaven. No, our first two presidents did not believe in any of that what Jefferson called Hocus Pocus.

Bottom line our first four presidents were not Christians.

not true at all. As Michael Novak showed, Washington was a member at almost 20 Baptisms
As for Adams, there you fall down dead

John Quincy Adams made state-sponsored Christianization a hallmark of his presidency.
Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]? Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?
John Quincy Adams (1837, during a speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

And that is how his father was.
The Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations.

John Adams

 

[NotfooledbyW]

John Quincy Adams (1837, during a speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

The secular governing institution known as the United States of America was established four decades prior to John Quincy Adams birth.

 

[surada]

Maybe better stated this way. The American public was quick to forgive and let live with Clinton. Yet, Trump, has gone through years of public, political, and MSM propaganda to remove him from office or keep him from running again with no in office Scandal like Clinton's. It amazing how quickly the Democrats forget about Clinton.

But, long before we had Social Media, forums, and the various tools we had today, many Democrats were willing to forgive the man for his Presidential Affair.

Here is an interesting book on the subject.. Wonder what it's about.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/420644

Oh, and here is this:

Clinton's impeachment barely dented his public support, and it turned off many Americans

The circumstances were very different during the Clinton impeachment crisis, and so was U.S. public opinion about the push for impeachment.

www.pewresearch.org

Clinton was contrite . Remember?

 

[LibertyKid]

Clinton was contrite . Remember?

Yeah... sure lol