Zone1 Mormons who have apostatized or stopped going to Church

[Cougarbear]

I'm sure it happens in all churches where there are anti-Christians or Anti-Mormons that attempt to share literature that tears down a person's faith. For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's been going on since Joseph Smith said the Father and Son visited him and told him not to join any of the churches for they are all wrong and come close with their lips but are far away from their hearts. So, a General Authority of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints poses these questions to those who have had a testimony of the Latter-day work:
1. Do you believe in the pre-mortal existence- that we lived with God as His children before we came to this earth?
2. Do you believe in the doctrine of the spirit world-that everyone will have a fair chance to hear the gospel in its fullness either on earth or in the spirit world before they are judged?
3. Do you believe, then, in baptism for the dead because that too is in the Bible?
4. Contrary to the doctrine of the Trinity as taught by most of the Christian world, do you believe that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are two separate personages with glorified bodies of flesh and bones?
5. Do you believe in one heaven and one hell as taught by most of the Christian world, or do you believe in three degrees of Glory?
6. Do you believe in the eternal nature of families?
7. Do you believe that Christ's Church today should have Apostles just as existed in Christ's mortal ministry?
8. Do you believe in on-going revelation today or believe that it ceased at the time the Bible ended and thereafter God left us on our own?

Then, the big question, Can you think of any other Christian Church that teaches one, let alone all of these doctrinal principles? So, if you still believe lost sheep are you willing to give up all this doctrine you know to be true, to throw it all away, because you have a few questions you can't answer?
Someone can't very well embrace the doctrine of the Church on one hand and then reject the prophets and scriptures through which it came on the other, any more than someone can claim that good fruit comes from a bad tree. If the fruit is good, the Savior taught, the tree is good. Accordingly, if the doctrine is true, then the prophets through whom it came are true.

Once we know that the doctrinal teachings of the Church are true, then we don't have to agonize over and dissect every statement of the prophets...we can accept them as the will of God and move forward in a positive, constructive way. The profound doctrinal teachings of the Church are powerful witness that our prophets are inspired, and thus, we can trust their counsel..

 

[Vastator]

No.

 

[BS Filter]

I'm sure it happens in all churches where there are anti-Christians or Anti-Mormons that attempt to share literature that tears down a person's faith. For members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's been going on since Joseph Smith said the Father and Son visited him and told him not to join any of the churches for they are all wrong and come close with their lips but are far away from their hearts. So, a General Authority of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints poses these questions to those who have had a testimony of the Latter-day work:
1. Do you believe in the pre-mortal existence- that we lived with God as His children before we came to this earth?
2. Do you believe in the doctrine of the spirit world-that everyone will have a fair chance to hear the gospel in its fullness either on earth or in the spirit world before they are judged?
3. Do you believe, then, in baptism for the dead because that too is in the Bible?
4. Contrary to the doctrine of the Trinity as taught by most of the Christian world, do you believe that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are two separate personages with glorified bodies of flesh and bones?
5. Do you believe in one heaven and one hell as taught by most of the Christian world, or do you believe in three degrees of Glory?
6. Do you believe in the eternal nature of families?
7. Do you believe that Christ's Church today should have Apostles just as existed in Christ's mortal ministry?
8. Do you believe in on-going revelation today or believe that it ceased at the time the Bible ended and thereafter God left us on our own?

Then, the big question, Can you think of any other Christian Church that teaches one, let alone all of these doctrinal principles? So, if you still believe lost sheep are you willing to give up all this doctrine you know to be true, to throw it all away, because you have a few questions you can't answer?
Someone can't very well embrace the doctrine of the Church on one hand and then reject the prophets and scriptures through which it came on the other, any more than someone can claim that good fruit comes from a bad tree. If the fruit is good, the Savior taught, the tree is good. Accordingly, if the doctrine is true, then the prophets through whom it came are true.

Once we know that the doctrinal teachings of the Church are true, then we don't have to agonize over and dissect every statement of the prophets...we can accept them as the will of God and move forward in a positive, constructive way. The profound doctrinal teachings of the Church are powerful witness that our prophets are inspired, and thus, we can trust their counsel..

So many of lds doctrines are unbiblical.

 

[Cougarbear]

So many of lds doctrines are unbiblical.

Nope. All of them are biblical.

 

[Cougarbear]

No.

Guess you don't believe the bible either.

 

[Vastator]

Guess you don't believe the bible either.

So... You're down to a guess? Bummer...

 

[Cougarbear]

So... You're down to a guess? Bummer...

I'm 100% sure of my testimony and knowledge. I'm guessing most Christians have never read the bible completely. Their preachers make sure they don't read things that would cause them to seek out Mormon Missionaries. Their preachers would lose their revenue of filthy lucre.

 

[BS Filter]

Nope. All of them are biblical.

What about polytheism. What about polygamy. What about Jesus and Satan being brothers. What about man becoming God. Etcetera.

 

[Cougarbear]

What about polytheism. What about polygamy. What about Jesus and Satan being brothers. What about man becoming God. Etcetera.

All are found in the bible including polygamy. There is instructions in the Bible about bishops, elders, deacons and so on that may have ONLY one wife. Logic would say that other members may have more than one wife. If it were not so, why would that instruction be in the Bible?

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are stated clearly in the Bible. The three make up God or the Godhead. They each have their specific duties to carry out. It's only the magical thinking people that try to imagine the three are one personage. The Bible says that the three agree as one. They are one in purpose.

Jesus Christ was a man. If he was not, then he would not have been able to be tortured and killed on the cross. He was then resurrected and became an eternal immortal God to you Christians. As with us, you believe that Jehovah God and Jesus God are the same spirit personage. It's just Jesus (Jehovah) has a body now. One that is resurrected. Then, Jesus also said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." So, the father has to be a glorified man. Now, the question is, what about the rest of us? Well, Jesus said we would all be resurrected and some will end up with glorified bodies in the Celestial resurrection of glory. That's all in the Bible. And, God also said more than once, we also can inherit the Kingdom of God. So, as man is now, God the Father would have had to be like us. And, like him, we can become like he is.

Because of mass confusion of Christian churches that has led to 40,000 different sects, the Lord said do not join any of the churches to Joseph Smith for they are all wrong. This is an area of where doctrine has been lost. That we are literal spirit children of our Father and Mother in heaven. We chose to come to this earth knowing all the perils that exist to gain a body so that we can learn earthly good and evil. Just like our heavenly parents did. This doctrine was lost. But now it's been restored. But, with logic and reasoning, it's easy to know it's true and bits and pieces are found in the Bible to substantiate this. God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the belly of his mother. That's before conception then. Heavenly Father knew all of us.

 

[BS Filter]

All are found in the bible including polygamy. There is instructions in the Bible about bishops, elders, deacons and so on that may have ONLY one wife. Logic would say that other members may have more than one wife. If it were not so, why would that instruction be in the Bible?

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are stated clearly in the Bible. The three make up God or the Godhead. They each have their specific duties to carry out. It's only the magical thinking people that try to imagine the three are one personage. The Bible says that the three agree as one. They are one in purpose.

Jesus Christ was a man. If he was not, then he would not have been able to be tortured and killed on the cross. He was then resurrected and became an eternal immortal God to you Christians. As with us, you believe that Jehovah God and Jesus God are the same spirit personage. It's just Jesus (Jehovah) has a body now. One that is resurrected. Then, Jesus also said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father." So, the father has to be a glorified man. Now, the question is, what about the rest of us? Well, Jesus said we would all be resurrected and some will end up with glorified bodies in the Celestial resurrection of glory. That's all in the Bible. And, God also said more than once, we also can inherit the Kingdom of God. So, as man is now, God the Father would have had to be like us. And, like him, we can become like he is.

Because of mass confusion of Christian churches that has led to 40,000 different sects, the Lord said do not join any of the churches to Joseph Smith for they are all wrong. This is an area of where doctrine has been lost. That we are literal spirit children of our Father and Mother in heaven. We chose to come to this earth knowing all the perils that exist to gain a body so that we can learn earthly good and evil. Just like our heavenly parents did. This doctrine was lost. But now it's been restored. But, with logic and reasoning, it's easy to know it's true and bits and pieces are found in the Bible to substantiate this. God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the belly of his mother. That's before conception then. Heavenly Father knew all of us.

Let's start with the polygamy. Isn't polygamy an everlasting covenant? Yet, you got rid of it.

 

[Cougarbear]

Let's start with the polygamy. Isn't polygamy an everlasting covenant? Yet, you got rid of it.

So did the early church for bishops and nearly all men. The scripture about this in the Doctrine and Covenants is still there. The administration of the practice has been suspended. Will it come back before the 2nd Coming? Don’t know and don’t care. A small percentage of members ever participated in it to begin with.

 

[BS Filter]

So did the early church for bishops and nearly all men. The scripture about this in the Doctrine and Covenants is still there. The administration of the practice has been suspended. Will it come back before the 2nd Coming? Don’t know and don’t care. A small percentage of members ever participated in it to begin with.

Polygamy wasn't practiced by Jews and the Church in the first century. Also your religion says polygamy is an everlasting covenant. If polygamy is an everlasting covenant, why isn't it still being practiced?

 

[ninja007]

THE VIRGIN BIRTH


How did Jesus become the Son ?​

Did Jesus become a Son because God Fathered him ? The Mormons and quite a few othersseem to think so. But none go as far as Mormonism ! This teaching of God being the literalFather is held unanimously across the board with the men who built the church to what itis today."Jesus is the only person who had our heavenly father as the father of hisbody" (family home evening manual p.125-126 1972) ‘Christ was begotten byan immortal father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal father."(Mormondoctrine p.547) "The birth of the savior was as natural as the births of ourchildren; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—wasbegotten of his father, as were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses vol.8p.115)


"If none but gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows thateach God must have one or more wives. God, the Father of our spirits, became the Father ofour Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. "(Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, page158)


"I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my SaviorJesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in theflesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. (Heber C. Kimball,Journal of Discourses, 8:211)


Apostle and one of the best defenders of their errors was Bruce R. McConkie taught,"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he wasborn in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortalfather. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived andborn in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and thatdesignation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, p.742).


The confusion escalates because the First Book of Nephi, p.25 (1830):."...beholdthe Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!" First Book of Nephi, p.32;(1830): "...that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of theworld." This means according to Mormonism the father fathered Jesus who also is thefather. So he fathered himself. He was in two places at the same time which according toMormonism is impossible. Not to worry though, this perfect revelation was revised.


When Mormons teach about the Virgin Birth of Jesus, they do not mean the same thing wedo as Christians and they know this. According to Mormonism, God the Father, who has abody of flesh and bones (since he was a man), came to earth and had a physical sex withMary, his own daughter and begot Jesus' physical body. (Doctrine andCovenants, 130:22; McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 471)


Bruce R. McConkie explains exactly what they mean by the terminology. SON OF GOD: Godthe Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christwas born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born inthe same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father.There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born inthe normal and natural course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designationmeans what it says. (Mormon Doctrine p. 742)


SON OF MAN: Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the eternal God!) isa Holy Man. "In the language of man, Man of Holiness" is the name of God.(Mormon Doctrine P.742)


"Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that manwas God!"(Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)


Apostle Bruce R. McConkie explains, "And Christ was born into the world as theliteral Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sensethat any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about hispaternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,… (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742). Apostle, Bruce R. McConkie also states"...ourLord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understoodliterally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Sonmeans son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way thatmortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." (Mormon Doctrine,p. 546-47 ).


God was not literally his Father anymore than the father had literallybegotten Israel the nation by sexual relations.( Israel is called Gods firstborn son).(Jn.5:18) Jesus called God his very own Father. This meant a special relationship thatexcludes him from anyone else as able to have. This he had PRIOR to coming to earth.


John 6:44 states, "Not that anyone has seen the Father except HE who is fromGod. He has seen the Father." Jesus makes the clear point that he has a differentrelation with God than any other human before or after him. He was the Son in relationshipto the Father before he was born as a man.


Isa.7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virginshall conceive, and bear a Son, and shall call his name, God with us." Here we findthe Son is God not just a human. Luke 1:35 he will be called "the Son of God".Immanuel =God with us.


This was the miraculous conception without a man, having no human Father. This would bea sign of a super- natural means of bringing Immanuel into the world. Isa.9:6 tells us achild would be born , this refers to his birth and humanity. It also says a sonwill be given this refers to his nature since he already was the Son in hispre-existence. He is sent from heaven as the Son. ( Jn. 3:16, 6:39, 12:49 )


"The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, theFather and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together inthe capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the timebeing, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would beblasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Saviorunlawfully. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)


In the Bible Luke 1:35: "And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadowyou: therefore also that holy one which is to be born will be called the Son of God."So Jesus was placed into the womb of Mary without the normal means of conception. Thevirgin birth became the means to protect the sinless Son of God.


'Now Remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten bythe Holy Ghost. ...But what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands,know but this subject? Comparatively Nothing."(Brigham Young, Journalof Discourses, Vol. 1:50-51)


"They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost.I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches No Such Thing! Neither does theBible!" (Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th Prophet of the MormonChurch, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)


In Mt.1:20 The angel tells Joseph "that which is conceived of the HolyGhost." The egg was generated to life as God the Son entered the egg underthe superintending ministry of the Holy Spirit.


The Bible is explicit that the Holy Spirit was the divine agent who caused Jesusconception in the womb of Mary not the father having sex. "This therefore, was not anormal conception, but a supernatural act of God planting the life of his already existentSon right in the womb of Mary, with no normal conception of a male sperm with the femaleovum of Mary. As blood type of the Son of God was a separate and precious type" (unlikeany other authors insert). Because of this method of conception "it isinconceivable that Mary could have supplied any of her Adamic blood for the spotless lambof God." (William Standish Reed of the Christian medical foundation of TampaFlorida.)


Neither is there any indication that God fertilized the egg of Mary through either theFather or Holy Spirits work. She conceived without human or divine fertilization, so therewas no sperm to touch the egg, Jesus who is the author of life made a biological miraclewith no fertilization. The Holy Spirit who is God protected his sinlessness as Godthe Son entered the womb and gave life to the egg of Mary. Taking upon himself a humannature in addition to his divine nature he already had.( clothed himself in humanity Phil.2:5-8)


There was no normal means of personhood transmitted from Mary in the virgin birth. Hewho became flesh is described as the Source of all life. What was given was a physicalbody but not the Spirit. Because the Spirit of man is sinful and the source of our passingon our sins generation to generation. It was the Son of God who was the inner man.


Not only do they claim Mary had sex with God the father but she was an adulteressaccording to Christians and a polygamist according to Mormons.


"And who is the Father? He is the firstof the human family. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by thesame character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father inHeaven." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pages 50-51) To make this clear whatthe Church understood this as "He [Brigham Young] said that our GOD was FatherAdam He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ Our God was no more or less thanADAM. " ("Wilford Woodruff Journal," Feb. 19,1854)


"Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of manand that man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)


"The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of,have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband."(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:268)


Not to wonder since God is also participating in this practice"We have clearly shown that God the father had a plurality of wives…"(OrsonPratt The Seer p.172)


"Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that Heonly gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in the mortal state, and that He intendedafter the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortalspirits in eternity."( Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)


So much was this practiced that Jedediah M. Grant, Second Counselor toBrigham Young, asserted: "A belief in the doctrine of a pluralityof wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 346)


"Hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being thelawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would beblasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Saviourunlawfully," (The Seer, Apostle Orson Pratt p. 158).


Actually what they are teaching is blasphemous. The truth is thatMormons are not Christians. They use Christian words but they change them to havenon-Christian definitions. They believe in a different Jesus, who is not the Jesus of theBible.


One needs to believe in the Biblical account of the virgin birth to be a Christian .when one changes this they lose the miracle of God using fallen humanity to accomplish hisdecrees. They also can lose the Son of God who clothed himself in humanity. since Mormonsreadily admit Jesus is just another spirit creature like you or I. To actively andconsciously refuse the facts of the means of the Son of Gods birth, is to bring havoc toones theology. This is why the Apostles creed and the Nicene creed had mention of thevirgin conception and Birth. Mormons on every point contradict the biblical text, but thenthat's what happens when you rely on revelations from angels of light.

 

[Cougarbear]

Polygamy wasn't practiced by Jews and the Church in the first century. Also your religion says polygamy is an everlasting covenant. If polygamy is an everlasting covenant, why isn't it still being practiced?

Because it is everlasting. Everlasting covenant of marriage. Nice try.

 

[BS Filter]

Because it is everlasting. Everlasting covenant of marriage. Nice try.

No, polygamy is an everlasting covenant. That's what your book of doctrines and Covenants says. Polygamy was an everlasting covenant until 1890. Why was it stopped?

Apostle Orson Pratt: “…if plurality of marriage is not true or in other words, if a man has no divine right to marry two wives or more in this world, then marriage for eternity is not true, and your faith is all vain, and all the sealing ordinances, and powers, pertaining to marriages for eternity are vain, worthless, good for nothing; for as sure as one is true the other also must be true.” -- address given in the Tabernacle, 18 July 1880 Journal of Discourses Vol. 21, page 296

Joseph F. Smith: ‘Some people have supposed that the doctrine of plural marriage was a sort of superfluity, or non essential to the salvation or exaltation of mankind… I want here to enter my solemn protest against this idea, for I know it is false." -- address given in the Tabernacle 7 Jul 1878. Journal of Discourses Vol. 20, page 028

Brigham Young: “Now, where a man in this church says, ‘I don't want but one wife, I will live my religion with one.' He will perhaps be saved in the Celestial Kingdom; but when he gets there he will not find himself in possession of any wife at all.... and he will remain single forever and ever.” - Deseret News, September 17, 1873 Deseret News 1873-09-17 Discourse

 

[Cougarbear]

No, polygamy is an everlasting covenant. That's what your book of doctrines and Covenants says. Polygamy was an everlasting covenant until 1890. Why was it stopped?

Do you know what everlasting means? It will be everlasting. However, our scriptures also say to uphold and sustain the law of the land. Everlasting doesn’t mean continuous. Uggg…Christians are so ignorant.

 

[BS Filter]

Do you know what everlasting means? It will be everlasting. However, our scriptures also say to uphold and sustain the law of the land. Everlasting doesn’t mean continuous. Uggg…Christians are so ignorant.

You're ignoring the quotes from your "prophets". Typical cultic behavior.

 

[Cougarbear]

You're ignoring the quotes from your "prophets". Typical cultic behavior.

I’m ignoring nothing. You are dancing around the truth.

 

[BS Filter]

I’m ignoring nothing. You are dancing around the truth.

The truth is the quotes from your prophets that you're ignoring.

 

[Cougarbear]

The truth is the quotes from your prophets that you're ignoring.

I’m not ignoring anything. You are misunderstanding the words and their meanings. Then trying to tell me what they mean. That’s funny.