Zone1 Why do Protestants always believe their pastors rather than the 2000 year old CHURCH Christ established?

[K9Buck]

Possibly. I do have hell in the category of mystery. We don't know. Putin and his war may be a modern day example. Can you imagine being in the presence of great love and goodness and having to view all the hate, evil, and damage your existence brought about? Two courses of action here: The wish to make reparations (purification that would be painful) or total disregard resulting in never again being in the presence of God (goodness/love).

Possibilities, wondering...but I don't know. It also crosses my mind that God knows our hearts and minds. Often second chances are ignored, disregarded. This life may be enough to inform God whether there is a wish to reform or there is an insistence that love and goodness be blown off.

I would like to think it is impossible to turn from that great love of God. But I don't know everyone. I remember reading that Hitler had a venereal disease known to cause mental problems. If that were the case, what might he have been if he had not been affected by disease?

Yes, many things are mysterious to us. The most impressive thing is what Jesus said in the "Great Commandment", love God and love one another. That's it.

It's fun to talk about the rest of it but doing so risks divisions with our brothers and sisters and so we must first focus on loving one another while discussing such things. It's not ok to "win" an argument while earning contempt from a brother. Believe me, this has been difficult for me to follow. It requires restraint.

 

[ding]

You still haven't said why.

Why what? You still haven't said if you read the report. See what I did there?

 

[ding]

Just like you and I.

I think the problems with statements like that is that it implies a subjective decision is required to make the distinction which then brings into question who gets to decide that for everyone else.

So I don't generally engage in bashing rival religions which seems to be all the rage right now. I've got better things to do with my time.

 

[JustAGuy1]

I think the problems with statements like that is that it implies a subjective decision is required to make the distinction which then brings into question who gets to decide that for everyone else.

So I don't generally engage in bashing rival religions which seems to be all the rage right now. I've got better things to do with my time.

You are way off the mark here. We, the PEOPLE are the Church.

 

[ding]

You are way off the mark here. We, the PEOPLE are the Church.

That's how Catholics see it. I don't know about anyone else. But logically, yes, everyone has the spirit of God in them. I don't see how it could be any other way. But rival religions are going to attack their rivals. It's always been that way and it will probably always be that way.

The OP is a great example. He not only attacks rival religions he also attacks his own religion.

It seems like the only thing I do here is defend my faith.

 

[Meriweather]

The most impressive thing is what Jesus said in the "Great Commandment", love God and love one another. That's it.

Yes. Too much emphasis is placed on the hereafter. The hereafter can take care of itself. Focus needs to remain on our present life.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Why what? You still haven't said if you read the report. See what I did there?

And what's up with the Papal States and the Pope literally controlling armies? Yet another king Napoleon kicked the shit out of.

 

[ding]

And what's up with the Papal States and the Pope literally controlling armies? Yet another king Napoleon kicked the shit out of.

No idea. Why don't you tell me?

 

[Donald H]

It seems like the only thing I do here is defend my faith.

No, that's not true.

But I won't say it's a lie because you might sincerely believe that you haven't attacked others.

 

[ding]

No, that's not true.

But I won't say it's a lie because you might sincerely believe that you haven't attacked others.

How many times do I have to explain this to you? Showing your motivations for attacking my faith, showing the evil committed by atheism showing your poor behaviors are all part of my defending my faith. You want to only play offense. I'm going to make you and every other militant atheist on this board play defense. It's just game theory. It's not rocket science.

 

[Donald H]

How many times do I have to explain this to you? Showing your motivations for attacking my faith, showing the evil committed by atheism showing your poor behaviors are all part of my defending my faith. You want to only play offense. I'm going to make you and every other militant atheist on this board play defense. It's just game theory. It's not rocket science.

I'm not attacking your faith, I'm reminding you of when you lost control and attacked me.
Maybe this will clear the decks and neither of us will hear anymore about it.

 

[Zincwarrior]

No idea. Why don't you tell me?

Catholic Pope leading entire armies. Come on Man!

 

[Clyde 154]

The word for "judges" in Hebrew is šō·p̄ə·ṭîm as found in 1 Samuel 8:1. The word for "god" (both big G and little g) in Hebrew is ’ĕ·lō·hîm. So Psalms 82:6 is translated correctly and God is speaking to those who are a part of the children of the Most High. What persons among all the posterity of Adam and Eve are not children of the Most High and are not gods? The truth is that all mankind are gods and children of the most high. They are not the god or gods of this world and have not reached the stature of God our Eternal Father in Heaven, but they are the children of God and were put upon this earth with the hope that they will learn good from evil and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ so that they may be saved into the kingdom of heaven. Those spoken of in Psalms are his children as well and were mortal men on the earth who would eventually die. Never the less, Jesus exclaimed that they were gods. They are gods in the sense that they are the literal offspring of God our Eternal Heavenly Father. Gods beget gods. They are the very children of the Most High.

Acts 17:29
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

All of Gods children that have come to this earth existed prior to coming to this earth. Some of them were foreordained before the foundation of this earth to be leaders.

Ephesians 1:4
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Job 38:1-7
1. Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2. Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3. Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

It was before the foundation of the world that we were born as sons and daughters unto God the Father. We are his spirit children and He is the Father of spirits.

Hebrews 12:9
9. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

As the offspring of God we have been created in his very image and likeness. As spirit children of God the Father, we are gods. So as his offspring does that mean that we can never become like him? Jesus commanded us to become perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 5:48
48. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect

Would Jesus give us this commandment if it were not possible to obey it? Jesus also taught that we can become one, even as Jesus is one with the Father and be made perfect in the oneness that both the Father and Son enjoy. He taught that we could have the same glory that the Father has bestowed upon Jesus.

John 17:20-22
20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

God has prepared a way that those who follow after Jesus can become like He and the Father.

1 John 3:2
2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Sure there are verses that say that God is the only god and there is none else beside him, but that is in regard to us who are on the earth and who we should worship. Jesus clearly taught that we are gods, but we are not the god who should be worshipped and who we should emulate. We should only see in our Father in Heaven, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, the one and only God whom we all should follow after. Paul the apostle says it this way:

1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6. But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Paul tells us that idols are nothing in the world. He then tells us that to us there is none other God but one. But Paul also realizes that there are gods many and lords many in both heaven and earth. God is god over all things that are within his kingdom. However, as mentioned before we can become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect, we are already considered gods by our Lord Jesus Christ himself.

In John 10 Jesus was approached by the Jews who insisted that he tell them plainly whether he be the Christ or not. Jesus then explained to them that he was the Christ, the very Son of God. The Jews felt that this was blasphemy for a man on earth to claim that he was the very son of the Father in the flesh. For this they took up stones to stone him. Jesus then asked then why they were going to stone him and the reason they gave was because they saw him as a blasphemer. They, like you, could not fathom that man could be like God. Jesus then uses their own law against them by quoting Psalms 82:6 which clearly states that we are all gods in that we are the very children (offspring) of God. Then he asks them why they would stone him for saying he was the Son of God, when their law clearly states that all the posterity of Adam and Eve are gods, even children of the Most High. Basically Jesus was saying to them, if, according to your law, we are all gods, why would you stone me for claiming I am the son of God. It doesn't make sense that their law tells them that we are all sons and daughters of the Most High and therefore gods. Gods beget gods. How could it be blasphemy to be a son of God if we are all the children of the Most High? Jesus caught them in their own belief. That is all there is to the verses in John 10 regarding this conversation with the Jews. The John 10 conversation has nothing to do with "judges". Jesus said, "35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?". In those words, Jesus is interpreting Psalms 82:6 by saying that He called them gods unto who the word of God came. He is not saying that it is restricted to judges. He is saying that Psalms 82:6 means that all to whom the word of God comes are gods and children of the Most High.

You say that gods cannot die. Yet Jesus was the creator of this world and as a member of the godhead is a God both before the world was created, during and after. He died. All mankind that have been born as the posterity of Adam and Eve are considered to be gods as the offspring of God the Father. Most all of us suffer death. Perhaps being changed in the twinkling of an eye is not death, I don't know. But they have to go through the change to become resurrected. But the majority of mankind who are considered to be gods, die.

Basically, your idea of God is that there can not be any other god. But Jesus, in Psalms 82:6 and John 10 refute that notion. True they are not the one God whom we are to worship, but there are other gods. You tend to disbelieve that we can become like our Father in Heaven. I disagree. I believe that we can, through following our Savior, come to be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect and receive the same glory that Jesus shares with the Father and become one with them even as they are one. The Prophet Joseph Smith received revelation that those who are the few that find eternal life, will be married for time and all eternity and will have a continuation of the seed forever and ever. In other words they will be able to have their own spirit children just as the Father of spirits had his own offspring. Eventually they will become Fathers in Heaven. That is the grand purpose of the man and the woman in eternity.

Once again..........if you personally interpret one passage of scripture to contradict another passage of scripture you are guilty of "2" things...... (1). personal or private interpretation is not allowed, the scriptures have already been interpreted by the prophets or scribes who delivered them (in other words......the scriptures self interpret) -- 2 Peter 1:20. (2). All scripture is produced by the same spirit of truth as inspired by the God of Creation -- 2 Tim. 3:16 (thus........one passage will never made another passage into a lie....deceit comes from the father of lies, the god with a little "g" of this world -- 2 Cor. 4:4)

Thus the scriptures are self interpreting the documented fact that appointed Judges were standing in for God to help enforce the LAW of MOSES. (Ps. 82). Several points of truth. (1). The gods mentioned were sitting on the council established by "GOD" with a capital "G" -- vs. 1 of Ps 82. (2). The gods mentioned with a little/small "g" were producing unjust judgements -- vs. 2 of Ps. 82. (3). The gods, small "g"..........will DIE, after falling from grace like a prince just like men because they are men -- vss. 6-7.

Read......COMPREHEND in literal text, no symbolism....literal text, unambiguous. There is only one GOD, "For there is ONE GOD, and ONE mediator between men and God.........the MAN CHRIST JESUS." -- 1 Tim. 2:5

Read Comprehend the passages that clearly state there is but ONE GOD. Deut 6:4 -- "The Lord our God is one Lord." Isa. 42:8 -- "I am the Lord; that is My Name; and MY GLORY I WILL NOT GIVE TO ANOTHER....." Isa. 43:10 -- "........BEFORE ME WAS NO GOD FORMED, NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME." Isa. 44:6 -- "I am the first, I am the last, and beside Me there is no God."

And in the New Testament, "There is ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT.........ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM......ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL......." -- Eph. 4:4-6

There is but ONE LORD and ONE CHRIST appointed by God (Acts 2:36, Matthew 28:18-19)

If every man can become like God (as Satan told Eve in the Garden....a lie --Genesis 3:5).........Our Lord and Savior has made a sacrifice in vain because we do not need the Grace provided by the sacrificial blood of the cross......WE BELIEVE IN VAIN. Just as Paul detailed in 1 Cor. 15.

God warned us of this DECEIT in the very first Chapter of the Holy Bible..........men will never become gods, Satan deceived Eve......and here are the MORMONS carrying the water for SATAN still in the 21st century A.D.

 

[ding]

I'm not attacking your faith, I'm reminding you of when you lost control and attacked me.
Maybe this will clear the decks and neither of us will hear anymore about it.

I can't help it if you are a dishonest person, Donald. Stop being dishonest and your problem will be solved. I'm a Christian. I always give people second and third chances.

 

[ding]

Catholic Pope leading entire armies. Come on Man!

Tell me more. Was it worse than the 100 to 200 million people murdered by militant atheist states?

 

[Donald H]

I can't help it if you are a dishonest person, Donald. Stop being dishonest and your problem will be solved. I'm a Christian. I always give people second and third chances.

And there you go with the personal attack rhetoric again!

 

[ding]

And there you go with the personal attack rhetoric again!

You misspelled observation.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholic Pope leading entire armies. Come on Man!

Are you talking about Pope Julius II in 1506? And you are still mad at the Catholic Church about that?

 

[Zincwarrior]

Tell me more. Was it worse than the 100 to 200 million people murdered by militant atheist states?

Who gives a fuck? That's not what the thread is about. Focus goldfish.

 

[ninja007]

So can a child enter the Kingdom of God without getting baptized?

Of course.