The really bothersome this morning that no one is talking about

[Redfish]

It's wrong because I should have to let government anything into my home irregardless of the circumstances. Unless there's a warrant for me or my property, I should able to tell the cops to kiss my dick. I'm just wondering what gives them the legal right to do this? I also imagine a lot of rights and libertarians would be losing their minds over this. I just thought it was odd that it wasn't being discussed.

Geez, get real. What if you were part of the terrorist group and were hiding the bastard,, are the police supposed to get 1000 warrants before trying to find the murderer?

I'm just wondering if there's a legal precedent and if my rights suddenly go out the window because the government says so. I mean ultimately this is one guy and the government fucked up earlier trying to catch him.

The swat team knocks on your door and says they want to search your house for the murderer, do you tell them no? do you let them in? what if the guy had crawled into a basement window and has a bomb that will blow you and your house to tiny pieces?

your theorhetorical is interesting, but kind of dumb.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

so if someone is hiding the murderer in his basement and the police are refused entry---------------------------you fill in the rest.

You wait 'em out for 51 days, get bored, fill the house with flammable gas and then torch the place. Duh.

and if they are not allowed to enter any house in the city. Do they just torch the entire city and hope the guy is still there?

Get real, dude. If that happened in my neighborhood, I would want the police to come in and make sure the bastard wasn't hiding in my basement. and anyone who refused to let them in would become a suspect.

you far right guys are as idiotic as the far lefties.

I'd like everyone to take note that I was just called a FAR RIGHT GUY

Honestly, I probably would let the police search my house as well. But there were certain times in college I would have a major problem with it, savvy? Also, under what legal authority do the cops have barging into each house in a neighborhood at 6 AM. The image of watching SWAT teams blasting into peoples' homes as they're turned out in their underwear completely confused holding babies was kind of fucked up this morning.

 

[emilynghiem]

I understand what you are saying and I would agree that if the cops forced their way into a home without a warrant and without permission, there is a massive problem there.

One thing is for certain, if they did find a grow operation, they couldn't do anything except take the weed.

Could they take (seize) it under those circumstances? If so, why can they not effect arrest, too?

I don't know. But it's an interesting question. A tickler.

in the past there have been cases thrown out because evidence was not obtained under perfectly legal standards.

technically the whole miranda rights thing was never supposed to be abused to justify throwing out evidence over a technicality, but that is what it morphed into.

my take on this
1. if you want free speech and want freedom not to incriminate yourself
then don't do anything incriminating and then you won't have to censor yourself
2. if you want due process and justice, then don't obstruct this for others by
denying for your convenience or putting your interests before others affected.
3. so i would mediate any conflicts where all people have equal say and free speech
to petition for redress of grievances until all are satisfied. i believe that would be more constitutional in allowing more free and equal representation and due process, and forming decisions on restitution and correction that satisfy the parties involved in a civil or criminal violation. i don't see how the current legal system is fully constitutional where there is no free or equal speech or petitioning, no speedy trials or equal justice but burdensome obstructions to the whole process that delay and deny justice and cost everyone more.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

Geez, get real. What if you were part of the terrorist group and were hiding the bastard,, are the police supposed to get 1000 warrants before trying to find the murderer?

I'm just wondering if there's a legal precedent and if my rights suddenly go out the window because the government says so. I mean ultimately this is one guy and the government fucked up earlier trying to catch him.

The swat team knocks on your door and says they want to search your house for the murderer, do you tell them no? do you let them in? what if the guy had crawled into a basement window and has a bomb that will blow you and your house to tiny pieces?

your theorhetorical is interesting, but kind of dumb.

I tell 'em come back in a half hour after I've had some coffee and read the morning paper.

 

[Foxfyre]

Bur what if it is one of those scenes that you see again and again in the movies. You open the door with the security chain still on because the perp is behind the door holding a gun barrel inches from your temple. You have instructions to send the police on their way. What do you want the cops/FBI to do? Refuse to accept your refusal and kick the door open? Or go on their way?

 

[MikeK]

If they forced their way into a house without a warrant and without permission, they broke the law.

Would you, if you were on a Jury, convict the Law Enforcement officers of violating the Fourth Amendment (in this scenario)? No. So the point is moot.

[...]

It's not moot for me. I certainly would convict, because their action under these circumstances sets a bad precedent. Let the Bill of Rights stand fast -- even if it sometimes is counterproductive.

I will accept forced entry in the event where behavior of the resident, or some other circumstance, presents clear cause for suspicion. But I do not accept forced entry as a routine procedure.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

Just saw this tweet, so maybe this point is moot.

@RaediantPhoenix:

Quote:
For the record: SWAT asked me if I WANTED them to search my home. Did not force me, didn't come inside. Not searching illegally. #watertown

I'd still want to have some coffee and read the paper before they came in.

 

[Ravi]

Here you go:

In exigent circumstances, or emergency situations, police can conduct warrantless searches to protect public safety. This exception to the Fourth Amendment’s probable cause requirement normally addresses situations of “hot pursuit,” in which an escaping suspect is tracked to a private home. But it might also apply to the events unfolding in Boston if further harm or injury might be supposed to occur in the time it takes to secure a warrant. A bomber believed to be armed and planning more violence would almost certainly meet such prerequisites.

Boston bomber manhunt: Is the Watertown door-to-door search by police for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev legal? - Slate Magazine

I don't like the idea that if they find unrelated incriminating evidence during such a search they can hold it against you. But the actual search is not unconstitutional. Nor is being asked to shelter in place, heck we get that all the time with hurricanes.

 

[emilynghiem]

You wait 'em out for 51 days, get bored, fill the house with flammable gas and then torch the place. Duh.

and if they are not allowed to enter any house in the city. Do they just torch the entire city and hope the guy is still there?

Get real, dude. If that happened in my neighborhood, I would want the police to come in and make sure the bastard wasn't hiding in my basement. and anyone who refused to let them in would become a suspect.

you far right guys are as idiotic as the far lefties.

I'd like everyone to take note that I was just called a FAR RIGHT GUY

Honestly, I probably would let the police search my house as well. But there were certain times in college I would have a major problem with it, savvy? Also, under what legal authority do the cops have barging into each house in a neighborhood at 6 AM. The image of watching SWAT teams blasting into peoples' homes as they're turned out in their underwear completely confused holding babies was kind of fucked up this morning.

It is traumatizing for the adults, i can't imagine for the kids.

I went into PTSD for weeks following a single incident where
federal marshalls were called in to police an eviction of a few families from public housing.

I spent the last night there with the head of the group trying to preserve the national historic housing from the competing authorities fighting them politically to tear down the site, which is both a Civil Rights and Military historic landmark nationally.

Even though we knew the feds were coming first thing in the morning, it was still traumatizing. Like waiting for the Gestapo, when you hear that fateful knock.

I wasn't even one of the residents and it numbed me for days.
There was no force or violence used, and it was still so much pressure to get out
before noon it was terrifying. I still have symptoms of legal abuse syndrome from
this kind of stuff going on in this national historic district. Constantly overrunning
the residents because they can get away with it, legally and politically because
people don't want to get on the bad side of govt and the developers financing
the officials campaigns and parties. Totally political. could not believe this stuff
goes on in America, but got a first hand lesson that it does. So I totally sympathize
and almost glad to know more people are waking up and realizing govt abuse
is not just some made up paranoia by conspiracy theorists but happens easily.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Why is no one talking the pseudo-martial law that was imposed on Watertown, MA this morning? We all watched on the local feeds as entire innocent families were kicked out of their homes at 6 AM east coast time so fucking swat teams could search their homes inch by inch. I definitely understand the concern by the government and that there's a dangerous terrorist on the loose. However, I'd have extreme trouble letting any government officials into my home... especially a goddamn swat team who's going to tear my place apart. Imagine them accidently stumbling on someone with a closet grow op or a basement hydroponic setup.

What say you USMB?

Ok so you're afraid of the government invading you house and seeing dope? REally that's what you take out of this? This is what I cant stand about dope heads.......dope is not real high on the priority list man.....

I hate big government period.....and now with them barging in....I guess it's cool for you as long as they just take the 30 shot magazines....oh wait democrats think they get used up when shooting them.......

 

[BallsBrunswick]

Why is no one talking the pseudo-martial law that was imposed on Watertown, MA this morning? We all watched on the local feeds as entire innocent families were kicked out of their homes at 6 AM east coast time so fucking swat teams could search their homes inch by inch. I definitely understand the concern by the government and that there's a dangerous terrorist on the loose. However, I'd have extreme trouble letting any government officials into my home... especially a goddamn swat team who's going to tear my place apart. Imagine them accidently stumbling on someone with a closet grow op or a basement hydroponic setup.

What say you USMB?

Ok so you're afraid of the government invading you house and seeing dope? REally that's what you take out of this? This is what I cant stand about dope heads.......dope is not real high on the priority list man.....

I hate big government period.....and now with them barging in....I guess it's cool for you as long as they just take the 30 shot magazines....oh wait democrats think they get used up when shooting them.......

I'll have you know that I was accused of being a FAR RIGHT winger in this thread which means we're practically on the same team. I'd expect a little more teamwork out of you.

(By the way, you're still one of the dumbest people on this website)

 

[MikeK]

so if someone is hiding the murderer in his basement and the police are refused entry---------------------------you fill in the rest.

I believe what you are talking about would work out to be a probable cause situation, i.e., what cause would the police have to believe one is harboring the subject? If they have cause let them force entry.

Otherwise, no.

 

[MikeK]

Its an unusual situation. We had martial law here after Katrina. I didn't like it but I realized it was better than kill or be killed.

Was martial law declared? I'm not aware that it was and I don't believe the circumstances called for it.

If martial law was declared, whoever declared it should be censured.

 

[April]

Why is no one talking the pseudo-martial law that was imposed on Watertown, MA this morning? We all watched on the local feeds as entire innocent families were kicked out of their homes at 6 AM east coast time so fucking swat teams could search their homes inch by inch. I definitely understand the concern by the government and that there's a dangerous terrorist on the loose. However, I'd have extreme trouble letting any government officials into my home... especially a goddamn swat team who's going to tear my place apart. Imagine them accidently stumbling on someone with a closet grow op or a basement hydroponic setup.

What say you USMB?

Somehow I doubt that they would give a shit that Joe and Jane were growing pot in their basement/closets...the matter at hand is catching a kid who has it in him to maim and kill another human being without conscience.

 

[MikeK]

Get real, dude. If that happened in my neighborhood, I would want the police to come in and make sure the bastard wasn't hiding in my basement. and anyone who refused to let them in would become a suspect.

you far right guys are as idiotic as the far lefties.

Because you are not capable of searching your own basement to make sure the fugitive is not hiding there does not establish a rule of conduct for everyone else.

 

[FireFly]

Here you go:

In exigent circumstances, or emergency situations, police can conduct warrantless searches to protect public safety. This exception to the Fourth Amendment’s probable cause requirement normally addresses situations of “hot pursuit,” in which an escaping suspect is tracked to a private home. But it might also apply to the events unfolding in Boston if further harm or injury might be supposed to occur in the time it takes to secure a warrant. A bomber believed to be armed and planning more violence would almost certainly meet such prerequisites.

Boston bomber manhunt: Is the Watertown door-to-door search by police for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev legal? - Slate Magazine

I don't like the idea that if they find unrelated incriminating evidence during such a search they can hold it against you. But the actual search is not unconstitutional. Nor is being asked to shelter in place, heck we get that all the time with hurricanes.

The key here is the government is not in "hot pursuit". They are systematically entering & searching everyone's home by force. They are also forcing people to remain in their home like they are being detained. They have no idea if the suspect is even in the city. This is a mockery of the Constitution. They are training citizens to comply with their orders no matter how illegal they are.

 

[MikeK]

I understand what you are saying and I would agree that if the cops forced their way into a home without a warrant and without permission, there is a massive problem there.

One thing is for certain, if they did find a grow operation, they couldn't do anything except take the weed.

Could they take (seize) it under those circumstances? If so, why can they not effect arrest, too?

I don't know. But it's an interesting question. A tickler.

Is that what you guys are really worried about, the govt taking your fucking drugs?

It happens to be an important legal question.

 

[bripat9643]

Why is no one talking the pseudo-martial law that was imposed on Watertown, MA this morning? We all watched on the local feeds as entire innocent families were kicked out of their homes at 6 AM east coast time so fucking swat teams could search their homes inch by inch. I definitely understand the concern by the government and that there's a dangerous terrorist on the loose. However, I'd have extreme trouble letting any government officials into my home... especially a goddamn swat team who's going to tear my place apart. Imagine them accidently stumbling on someone with a closet grow op or a basement hydroponic setup.

What say you USMB?

grow up. what they did was to protect innocent people. Martial law is something quite different.

If they entered people's homes without their permission, it was a violation of the 4th amendment.

 

[Ravi]

Here you go:

In exigent circumstances, or emergency situations, police can conduct warrantless searches to protect public safety. This exception to the Fourth Amendment’s probable cause requirement normally addresses situations of “hot pursuit,” in which an escaping suspect is tracked to a private home. But it might also apply to the events unfolding in Boston if further harm or injury might be supposed to occur in the time it takes to secure a warrant. A bomber believed to be armed and planning more violence would almost certainly meet such prerequisites.

Boston bomber manhunt: Is the Watertown door-to-door search by police for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev legal? - Slate Magazine

I don't like the idea that if they find unrelated incriminating evidence during such a search they can hold it against you. But the actual search is not unconstitutional. Nor is being asked to shelter in place, heck we get that all the time with hurricanes.

The key here is the government is not in "hot pursuit". They are systematically entering & searching everyone's home by force. They are also forcing people to remain in their home like they are being detained. They have no idea if the suspect is even in the city. This is a mockery of the Constitution. They are training citizens to comply with their orders no matter how illegal they are.

Get a grip. They shot the first perp and I'm willing to believe they know what they are doing better than you know what you're doing.

In fact, all you are doing is whining on a messageboard.

 

[FireFly]

It must be some new "National Security" power granted to Homeland Security in event of Terrorist.