Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[surada]

Soldiers, maybe. Such a policy was not exclusive to ancient Rome. Roman citizens couldn't do that, could they? And the soldiers didn't just target Jews, did they?

It was probably that way all over the Roman empire, but Jesus is telling them not to defy Roman authority.

 

[norwegen]

Jesus told them not to defy Roman law.

Turning the other cheek? What it meant in its historical context < The Scholars Corner

Most of Jesus' counsel about not resisting evil had to to do with not resisting Roman authority. A Roman solider could legally require you to carry his pack 1 stadia; Jesus said then to carry it two.

www.scholarscorner.com

Maybe so. Or maybe his frame of reference was Israel. That is who the Bible is about, after all.

But if Rome, then Rome. I suppose it could be construed that way. That's what St. Paul taught, too.

No wonder the accusations of sedition against Rome wouldn't fly.

 

[Meriweather]

And then you complain that Jews have had a negative reaction to you?

I am going to jump around again...the word 'negative' in your post had me jumping to Tisha B'Av (do I have that correct?) I know next to nothing of it other than one person said it was a time of mourning for the Jews--to remember and mourn all the wrongs that had been done to them, particularly those wrongs that led to the destruction of the Temple?

While it is a cliche, isn't there something to be said about, "Forgive and forget"? Judaism seems to teach never forget any wrong that has been done to the extent they have a holy time each year devoted to remembering and mourning all the wrongs every done to them?

I have no intent of criticizing this, but I would like to better understand it.

 

[Blues Man]

I'm sure that everyone has heard about the temptation of Christ. "He was tempted by the Devil in the wilderness, living among the wild beasts." Most people close their eyes and imagine Jesus as a lonely visionary living in the desert, hearing voices, among scorpions vermin serpents and jackals.

The truth is 'the wilderness' is code for any place beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law. The wild beasts represent the Romans. The truth of the story that cannot be found anywhere else, except by ruminating, deep rational thinking, is that Jesus was running around with the romans presumably doing what romans did. He wasn't a monk, he was a partier, "a glutton and a drunk."

This one revelation changes everything. The Bible is teeming with such hidden treasures.

I don't picture Jesus as anything but a man who happened to be a charismatic religious leader and the single greatest venture capitalist that ever lived

 

[norwegen]

It was probably that way all over the Roman empire, but Jesus is telling them not to defy Roman authority.

I'm not sure where you get that. Does he mention Rome in that sermon?

I know he references Israel's customs, such as applied to lust (5:27), divorce (5:31), and retaliation (5:38).

 

[ding]

What did I try to sugar coat?

You tried to say David didn't commit adultery because he had a hall pass from his wife.

Everyone knows right from wrong and a Moshiach that isn’t a “perfect lamb” reflects reality.
The “perfect lamb” expectation resulted in 100s of millions being murdered.

Yes, everyone does know right from wrong. "When they heard God coming they hid." They knew they had done wrong because they hid.

So knowing right from wrong is not the problem. Accepting accountability when one does wrong is.

God: Adam did you eat the fruit?
Adam: The woman you made gave it to me.

That was Adam not accepting accountability for his actions. No different than when you tried to sugar coat David's adultery by claiming it was OK to cheat on his wife because he had a BOD (i.e. hall pass to cheat). That's horseshit. That's a rationalization no different than the rationalization Adam made when he blamed God for making the woman who gave him the fruit.

 

[USAF 2023]

I’m hardly preoccupied with it. I came onto this thread to defend Jews from the antisemites still trying to blame “us” for Jesus’ death. And then of course, I object strenuously to the Evangelicals who tell Jews they are going to hell.

Other than that, I don’t pay it no mind. But you sure seem angry about something. Is it that Jews here have reported the awful things said and done to them by Catholic School kids? I’m all for exposing antisemitism.

Have a question I have asked many times before with no response. Even if the Jews were responsible, so what?
Didn’t GOD bring his ONLY son down to earth to die for our Sins? It’s not like he was walking minding his own business, mugged, and for no reason nailed to a Cross. “ Christians “ say one thing in Church, but once out the door their hypocrisy and hate are exposed

 

[Indeependent]

You tried to say David didn't commit adultery because he had a hall pass from his wife.

Yes, everyone does know right from wrong. "When they heard God coming they hid." They knew they had done wrong because they hid.

So knowing right from wrong is not the problem. Accepting accountability when one does wrong is.

God: Adam did you eat the fruit?
Adam: The woman you made gave it to me.

That was Adam not accepting accountability for his actions. No different than when you tried to sugar coat David's adultery by claiming it was OK to cheat on his wife because he had a BOD (i.e. hall pass to cheat). That's horseshit. That's a rationalization no different than the rationalization Adam made when he blamed God for making the woman who gave him the fruit.

David did not commit adultery.
If that bothers you, see a therapist.

 

[surada]

I'm not sure where you get that. Does he mention Rome in that sermon?

I know he references Israel's customs, such as applied to lust (5:27), divorce (5:31), and retaliation (5:38).

See post 831. Jesus said carry the soldier's pack two miles.. not to defy Roman authority. The temple was destroyed because of Jewish rebellion.

Causes of the Temple's Destruction

www.josephus.org

 

[Lisa558]

I am going to jump around again...the word 'negative' in your post had me jumping to Tisha B'Av (do I have that correct?) I know next to nothing of it other than one person said it was a time of mourning for the Jews--to remember and mourn all the wrongs that had been done to them, particularly those wrongs that led to the destruction of the Temple?

While it is a cliche, isn't there something to be said about, "Forgive and forget"? Judaism seems to teach never forget any wrong that has been done to the extent they have a holy time each year devoted to remembering and mourning all the wrongs every done to them?

I have no intent of criticizing this, but I would like to better understand it.

Judaism teaches that one should forgive. In fact, as part of Yom Kippur, if someone who has wronged you asks for forgiveness, and means it wholeheartedly, you are COMMANDED to forgive.

That does not mean that we should forget the tragedies that have befallen us. To the contrary, we should recall them, and mourn for the loss.

These are two very different things.

 

[ding]

David did not commit adultery.

Sure he did. He committed adultery on his wife. And he took the wife of another man. Did he have Uriah's permission to do that?

 

[Meriweather]

but once out the door their hypocrisy and hate are exposed

Scripture teaches that we were formed in the image and likeness of God; that there is the divine breath/divine spark in each of us. In our lessons we were taught to look for and fine that divine spark in everyone we meet.

Why be blind to that divine spark? Why can only see hate and hypocrisy? Yes, we should all be more...but we should all also see more. So why don't we?

 

[surada]

David did not commit adultery.
If that bothers you, see a therapist.

Sure he did. He also sent Bathsheba's husband to the front to be killed. It was an adulterous affair. Didn't their first child die as punishment?

 

[Indeependent]

Sure he did. He committed adultery on his wife. And he took the wife of another man. Did he have Uriah's permission to do that?

I see you failed your Halacha class.
How about all those good Christians committing murder all day around the world.

 

[Indeependent]

Sure he did. He also sent Bathsheba's husband to the front to be killed. It was an adulterous affair. Didn't their first child die as punishment?

The Get was in force so David did not commit adultery but Muslims are committing murder all the time.

 

[surada]

The Get was in force so David did not commit adultery but Muslims are committing murder all the time.

The Bible doesn't say Bathsheba was divorced. Do you have the verse that says she was?

What do Muslims have to do with King David?

 

[Meriweather]

That does mean that we should forget the tragedies that have befallen us. To the contrary, we should recall them, and mourn for the loss.

These are two very different things.

I totally understand the difference between the two. Even while I used the cliche "forgive and forget" I was not inferring Jews are not forgiving. I am interested in the reasons for clinging to and remembering tragedy rather than moving on.

 

[norwegen]

See post 831. Jesus said carry the soldier's pack two miles.. not to defy Roman authority. The temple was destroyed because of Jewish rebellion.

Causes of the Temple's Destruction

www.josephus.org

I don't see anything in the sermon about carrying a soldier's pack. Nothing in it at all about Romans, specifically.

Jesus references a bunch of native customs, not foreign customs.

 

[Indeependent]

The Bible doesn't say Bathsheba was divorced. Do you have the verse that says she was?

The Talmud dictates that every man that goes to war gives his wife a Get.
I hope you can admit that your knowledge of Torah Law is non-existent.

 

[surada]

Matthew 5:41 is part of the sermon on the mount.

Matthew 5:41 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org