Zone1 Pontius Pilate: An Enigmatic Figure

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Jesus didn't create Christianity, it evolved over time, guided by his believers.

What do the gospels say Jesus told his disciples to do and what did his disciples do? Or are you going to say they revised that history too? Because it seems your entire argument is that everything was revised after the fact. Unfortunately for you the empty tomb, the behaviors and actions of the apostles immediately following the resurrection, Paul's letters and the Babylonian Talmud independently verify the accounts as they are.

 

[JoeB131]

For those who are familiar: what do you make of Pontius Pilate, the Roman Prefect who eventually gave Jesus over to be crucified?

To be clear, Pilate gave in to the pressure of the temple leaders and crowds rather than judge correctly, and that's a failing. But beyond that, I always feel a little niggle of sympathy for him. Several times he protested the death sentence. He seemed truly perplexed by the urgency of the priests. And he was Roman: he certainly did not have much knowledge of the prophesied Messiah. IOW, we can't have expected him to recognize all the ways Jesus fulfilled them, as priests and scribes should.

On a birds-eye level: I never blame anyone for Jesus' death past my own sins, for which He died. But looking at the story from a human standpoint--Pilate seems the least culpable. What are your thoughts?

The problem is you are taking the Gospel Account at face value.

The non-Christian Sources we have on Pilate indicate he was quite ruthless to the point where Tiberius had to sack him from his position for alienating the Jews to the point of revolt. Tiberius. A generally awful human being who murdered hundreds of his political opponents and even members of his own family!

Even he was saying, "Whoa, man, that's a bit too harsh. you're done!"

So why did the Gospel Writers give him a more sympathetic treatment?

Because by the time the Gospels were written, Christianity had become a separate religion from Judaism rather than just another sect of it. So an account where the Romans are the good guys but the Jews are the bad guys did fit a political agenda.

And it worked. Christianity eventually became Rome's official religion.

Ah, if only that spear hadn't hit Julian the Apostate!

 

[JoeB131]

What do the gospels say Jesus told his disciples to do and what did his disciples do? Or are you going to say they revised that history too? Because it seems your entire argument is that everything was revised after the fact. Unfortunately for you the empty tomb, the behaviors and actions of the apostles immediately following the resurrection, Paul's letters and the Babylonian Talmud independently verify the accounts as they are.

The Gospels were written by people who never met Jesus personally.

All your "proof" was written decades after the fact.

 

[alang1216]

Ok, so what? The behaviors and actions of the apostles immediately after the resurrection and Paul's letters are consistent with that. And the Babylonian Talmud is consistent with the accounts too. The only reason you don't it is because you reject the supernatural events. That's not how evidence or logic works.

If events were added to the NT is it unreasonable for me to think some of the existing passages may have been edited for theological clarity?

Do you have any evidence for anything supernatural from your own life (not including golf of course)?

 

[alang1216]

What do the gospels say Jesus told his disciples to do and what did his disciples do? Or are you going to say they revised that history too? Because it seems your entire argument is that everything was revised after the fact. Unfortunately for you the empty tomb, the behaviors and actions of the apostles immediately following the resurrection, Paul's letters and the Babylonian Talmud independently verify the accounts as they are.

Unfortunately for you the empty tomb and the resurrection were attested by few people and the accounts differ wildly with at least some accounts being added much later. Paul's letters show he was a brilliant theologian but he never met and knew little about Jesus. The Babylonian Talmud is hearsay, hardly an independently verify account.

 

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The Gospels were written by people who never met Jesus personally.

All your "proof" was written decades after the fact.

Jesus was worshipped as God before the gospels were recorded. Why do you believe that was?

 

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If events were added to the NT is it unreasonable for me to think some of the existing passages may have been edited for theological clarity?

Seems like you are arguing conspiracy. What is unreasonable is the amount of times you would make that argument as we walked through every verse in the Gospels.

Do you have any evidence for anything supernatural from your own life (not including golf of course)?

Sure. During communion God poured his spirit into me and it was more than I could bear and I asked him to take it away.

 

[alang1216]

Jesus was worshipped as God before the gospels were recorded. Why do you believe that was?

Because they wanted a savior.

 

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Because they wanted a savior.

So conspiracy?

 

[alang1216]

Seems like you are arguing conspiracy. What is unreasonable is the amount of times you would make that argument as we walked through every verse in the Gospels.

You are wrong. Again.

Sure. During communion God poured his spirit into me and it was more than I could bear and I asked him to take it away.

Was there wine involved?

 

[alang1216]

So conspiracy?

Is there a pro-Trump conspiracy? Who is running it?

 

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You are wrong. Again.

Not if that is your response to every account, I'm not.

Was there wine involved?

No. It was the blood of Christ. Which also is a miracle.

 

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Is there a pro-Trump conspiracy? Who is running it?

That would be Trump.

 

[alang1216]

That would be Trump.

Do you really think Trump is telling Fox News and other right wing media what to say? That would be very impressive.

 

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Do you really think Trump is telling Fox News and other right wing media what to say? That would be very impressive.

Most conspiracy theories are.

 

[alang1216]

Most conspiracy theories are.

That makes no sense and anyway is not an answer to my question: "Do you really think Trump is telling Fox News and other right wing media what to say?"

 

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That makes no sense and anyway is not an answer to my question: "Do you really think Trump is telling Fox News and other right wing media what to say?"

It makes as much sense as you believing the gospels were "fabricated fiction" long after they began worshipping Jesus as God.

 

[alang1216]

It makes as much sense as you believing the gospels were "fabricated fiction" long after they began worshipping Jesus as God.

Is that a quote of mine? I don't recall making it but there are undisputed instances of fiction in the NT.

You are still unclear, is there a conspiracy with Trump at the center of it or not? Are these images part of a conspiracy run by Trump or are they fabricated fictions created by his followers?

 

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Is that a quote of mine? I don't recall making it but there are undisputed instances of fiction in the NT.

Close enough.

You are still unclear, is there a conspiracy with Trump at the center of it or not? Are these images part of a conspiracy run by Trump or are they fabricated fictions created by his followers?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist like you. But what you are failing to understand is that Trump was president first. Just as Jesus was worshipped as God first.

 

[ding]

telephone game error
embellished
they needed a savior

What's next? Conspiracy theory? Eliza on ice?