People Are Not Born Gay

[bodecea]

Some straight married couples do not practice monogamy or have "open marriages" as well. Monogamy in marriage doesn't have an exactly wonderful record throughout it's history, so this appeal to tradition is faulty on it's face considering history is rife with infidelity.

It always amazes me, the stupidity of an argument against gay marriage (which encourages monogamy) because gays are too promiscuous.

It is nothing more than a last ditch attempt to deny gays marriage. Even the anti-gay marriage side is not making these types of arguments in court. Gays are promiscuous so they should be denied marriage is one of the weaker arguments I've encountered when discussing this topic. It isn't a very compelling argument.

Its not a compelling argument? So, if monogamy in marriage is not important, what is?

Nothing.

Exactly what the left wants.

Mark

Then I suppose you'll have to that issue up with "the left" since I am an independent libertarian. If your argument was very compelling it would be presented to the courts by your side. It is not being presented because like most of their quarrels against marriage it will laughed out of court.

Many arguments are compelling that don't make it to court.

Just the way our "handlers" like it.

Mark

Ah...now it's a conspiracy.

 

[bodecea]

Doesn't really matter because, IF you are a consenting adult and IF your actions harm no one, what you choose for your own life and who you choose as a partner is none of my business.

Would you agree with that?

MYOB

Absolutely. However, if its a choice, society does not have to condone it. It would be just like a person who does drugs. Make it legal, and let them live their lives. Should it be "normalized" by allowing them to marry?

Absolutely not.

Mark

We do allow people who use drugs to get married.

Sigh. The drugs have nothing to do with marriage.

Let me make this as clear as possible.

Don't encourage drug users to use drugs.

Don't encourage gay men to have gay sex.

How would we encourage them to have gay sex? By condoning marriage.

Come on folks, this ain't rocket science.

Mark

Then stop comparing drugs to homosexuals.

If your goal is to discourage gay men from having sex- then as any married person knows- you should be encouraging gay marriage.

Gay men have sex. Not only that but they have the legal right to have private consensual sex- just like I do.

Opposing gay marriage just means you don't want to encourage gay men to have safe sex- that you don't want to encourage gay men to be monogamous.

Really- are you one of those people who oppose condom use because you think it only encourages people to be promiscuous?

Like I stated before, gay men have no intention of being monogamous in marriage. Why would I want to encourage that?

Mark

You speak for gay men now?

 

[JakeStarkey]

A conspiracy of one with Zephyr speaking for gag guys. Wow!

 

[Lilah]

IF between consenting adults, who you choose to marry is none of my business.

Equal rights for all. Period.

MYOB

Wrong. Society has an absolute right to limit who marries. If equal rights is your goal, than you have to allow polygamy.



Mark

Polygamy is being practiced in Utah and Arizona City.

Not legally.

Mark

Polygamy is legal in Utah. Do your research before you attempt to show off your glow.

Careful. It is decriminalized, but if anyone practices bigamy by marrying another wife under the law while having a wife already, that person will be prosecuted.

Has anyone made that known to the men in Arizona City?

 

[emilynghiem]

A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists

Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks

Sorry but there is a difference between
being "born gay genetically"
and born gay spiritually.

If scientists can prove that a person's unique identity is formed at conception
by when the DNA of both parents mixes to make a unique combination,
that PHYSICAL identity is STILL DIFFERENT from spiritual identity and life/choices/personality.

So just because PHYSICAL life begins at conception
doesn't define when SPIRITUAL life begins,
which many will say is before physical birth and goes on after physical death.

The issue that people cannot prove using science
(but maybe by social statistics) is if people's
identity is something determined in the SPIRIT.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Emily, that is your hypothesis, I understand.

 

[PratchettFan]

A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists

Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks

Sorry but there is a difference between
being "born gay genetically"
and born gay spiritually.

If scientists can prove that a person's unique identity is formed at conception
by when the DNA of both parents mixes to make a unique combination,
that PHYSICAL identity is STILL DIFFERENT from spiritual identity and life/choices/personality.

So just because PHYSICAL life begins at conception
doesn't define when SPIRITUAL life begins,
which many will say is before physical birth and goes on after physical death.

The issue that people cannot prove using science
(but maybe by social statistics) is if people's
identity is something determined in the SPIRIT.

Sexual attraction is PHYSICAL life. I have yet to meet a single person who made a conscious decision who they would be attracted to.

 

[emilynghiem]

A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists

Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks

Sorry but there is a difference between
being "born gay genetically"
and born gay spiritually.

If scientists can prove that a person's unique identity is formed at conception
by when the DNA of both parents mixes to make a unique combination,
that PHYSICAL identity is STILL DIFFERENT from spiritual identity and life/choices/personality.

So just because PHYSICAL life begins at conception
doesn't define when SPIRITUAL life begins,
which many will say is before physical birth and goes on after physical death.

The issue that people cannot prove using science
(but maybe by social statistics) is if people's
identity is something determined in the SPIRIT.

Sexual attraction is PHYSICAL life. I have yet to meet a single person who made a conscious decision who they would be attracted to.

Yes I agree. the spiritual affects or even determines the physical.

What I think people are arguing is it ISN'T the other way.
It isn't the physical determining the spiritual.
It isn't the genetics alone causing it.

Genetics is a factor by which it manifests,
but isn't the cause.

The studies on twins are interpreted both ways
the fact that the chances are HIGHER of having the same orientation
are MORE than 50/50 (I think it is 53 to 47 or something like that)
but it isn't 100% matching shows it isn't genetically decided,
or else both twins would always match in orientation.

Some people say the higher tendency to match means there
is some predilection, depending how you interpret those stats.

Even if twins have the same physical genetics,
you can easily argue their SPIRIT or personality/soul is
different. So you can argue the difference in
orientation relates to THAT level.

NOTE: this still leaves it open to debate if people can change on the Spiritual level or not.
But the advantage to pushing the argument on the Spiritual level is that it takes it out of
the range of govt. Govt and laws cannot be used to impose a belief bias or opinion
on SPIRITUAL issues, processes or decisions that are Personal to people.

So that would get the state out of it or get these policies out of state hands.

If we agree it is a spiritual issue that belongs to individuals and cannot be regulated by govt.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Polygamy is legal in Utah. Do your research before you attempt to show off your glow.

Being legally married to more than one person is not legal in Utah.

Has anyone made that known to the men in Arizona City?

What is this "Arizona City" you speak of?


*****************************************

Just to clarify, it is legal for someone to consider themselves in a polygamous relationship more than one "partner" or "spritual wives". However that is not the same think as being legally married to more than one spouse.


>>>>

 

[Lilah]

Polygamy is legal in Utah. Do your research before you attempt to show off your glow.

Being legally married to more than one person is not legal in Utah.

Has anyone made that known to the men in Arizona City?

What is this "Arizona City" you speak of?


*****************************************

Just to clarify, it is legal for someone to consider themselves in a polygamous relationship more than one "partner" or "spritual wives". However that is not the same think as being legally married to more than one spouse.


>>>>

Polygamy Is Legal In Utah, For Now. A federal judge issued a final ruling Wednesday in the so-called Sister Wives case, handing the stars of the TLC show a resounding victory. The Brown family, who rose to prominence on the TLC reality show “Sister Wives.”
Mea Culpa; should have been Colorado City, Arizona.

 

[Ellipsis]

Why does anyone care if being gay is a choice or not?

Either way it's none of your fucking business is it?

When gays asked the general public to support their cause it became everyone's buisness.

 

[bodecea]

Why does anyone care if being gay is a choice or not?

Either way it's none of your fucking business is it?

When gays asked the general public to support their cause it became everyone's buisness.

So...everyone's straight marriage is MY business?

 

[Ellipsis]

A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists

Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks

Homosexuality is a birth defect where the brain interprets pheromones as the opposite sex, thus causing same-sex attraction. This means gays are indeed born that way. It's like a disability and like disabilities we should alter the law in a way that allows them to live productive lives.

Should we also allow alcoholics to drink, or should we try to encourage them to stop?

Mark

Alcoholism is correctable, homosexuality is not.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Polygamy is legal in Utah. Do your research before you attempt to show off your glow.

Being legally married to more than one person is not legal in Utah.

Has anyone made that known to the men in Arizona City?

What is this "Arizona City" you speak of?


*****************************************

Just to clarify, it is legal for someone to consider themselves in a polygamous relationship more than one "partner" or "spritual wives". However that is not the same think as being legally married to more than one spouse.


>>>>

Polygamy Is Legal In Utah, For Now. A federal judge issued a final ruling Wednesday in the so-called Sister Wives case, handing the stars of the TLC show a resounding victory. The Brown family, who rose to prominence on the TLC reality show “Sister Wives.”
Mea Culpa; should have been Colorado City, Arizona.

I dont' see a link and a Google Search of news accounts doesn't show any new ruling in Utah striking down legal marriage as being limited to two people. Today is Wednesday and I didn't see anything.

Now IIRC there was a ruling last August where a Federal Judge struck down limits on the cohabitation of consenting adults - but that ruling did not change the number of legal spouses one can have to more than the current "1".


Colorado City - isn't that the place were the leader of a polygamous church was arrested and thrown in jail?



>>>>

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists

Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks

you spend far too much time looking into the sexual habits of other people

just sayin'

 

[Ellipsis]

Why does anyone care if being gay is a choice or not?

Either way it's none of your fucking business is it?

When gays asked the general public to support their cause it became everyone's buisness.

So...everyone's straight marriage is MY business?

Yup. If you think CA's blood test requirement is unjust, or if you want your state's age of consent to marry changed, etc, then you have every right to speak up about that even if you aren't married.

 

[emilynghiem]

Why does anyone care if being gay is a choice or not?

Either way it's none of your fucking business is it?

When gays asked the general public to support their cause it became everyone's buisness.

So...everyone's straight marriage is MY business?

If your state laws are written in some discriminatory way that bans or imposes
one type of marriage or another to the point of a bias that excludes the beliefs of others unequally,
then yes as a citizen of that state then it becomes your business if you don't agree with that govt imposition.

 

[emilynghiem]

A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists

Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks

Homosexuality is a birth defect where the brain interprets pheromones as the opposite sex, thus causing same-sex attraction. This means gays are indeed born that way. It's like a disability and like disabilities we should alter the law in a way that allows them to live productive lives.

Should we also allow alcoholics to drink, or should we try to encourage them to stop?

Mark

Alcoholism is correctable, homosexuality is not.

Unnatural homosexuality can be healed.
It depends on the person and spiritually what their process is in life.

See "Can homosexuality be healed" by Francis MacNutt
Some can and some cannot change, it depends.
I've met people who weren't Christian who were able to change.
I've met people who WERE Christian and prayed, and still did not change.
I met someone who healed first spiritually, after coming out as transgender,
and didn't decide to go through chemical therapy until AFTER the spiritual healing.
while others use spiritual healing to get rid of the "unwanted orientation"
and restore their "natural selves as heterosexual"; others do the opposite
and when they restore their "natural self" they come out as homosexual or transgender.

Just because one person can change doesn't mean another one can.
Just because one person can't change, doesn't meant another person can't.

 

[Ellipsis]

Unnatural homosexuality can be healed.
It depends on the person and spiritually what their process is in life.

See "Can homosexuality be healed" by Francis MacNutt
Some can and some cannot change, it depends.
I've met people who weren't Christian who were able to change.
I've met people who WERE Christian and prayed, and still did not change.
I met someone who healed first spiritually, after coming out as transgender,
and didn't decide to go through chemical therapy until AFTER the spiritual healing.
while others use spiritual healing to get rid of the "unwanted orientation"
and restore their "natural selves as heterosexual"; others do the opposite
and when they restore their "natural self" they come out as homosexual or transgender.

Just because one person can change doesn't mean another one can.
Just because one person can't change, doesn't meant another person can't.

You're talking about correcting sex-related stress disorders, not homosexuality.

During the second trimester of pregnancy there are a few hormone surges which do or do not happen depending on the sex of the child. One of these is a testosterone surge which makes the child develop a male body. Irregularities in this hormone soup can cause an incomplete gender assignment...specifically, the thalamus interprets pheromones sensed by the
olfactory epithelium to be of the opposite sex, when in fact the pheromones are from the same-sex, thus causing same-sex attraction.

This is not correctable.

 

[emilynghiem]

Unnatural homosexuality can be healed.
It depends on the person and spiritually what their process is in life.

See "Can homosexuality be healed" by Francis MacNutt
Some can and some cannot change, it depends.
I've met people who weren't Christian who were able to change.
I've met people who WERE Christian and prayed, and still did not change.
I met someone who healed first spiritually, after coming out as transgender,
and didn't decide to go through chemical therapy until AFTER the spiritual healing.
while others use spiritual healing to get rid of the "unwanted orientation"
and restore their "natural selves as heterosexual"; others do the opposite
and when they restore their "natural self" they come out as homosexual or transgender.

Just because one person can change doesn't mean another one can.
Just because one person can't change, doesn't meant another person can't.

You're talking about correcting sex-related stress disorders, not homosexuality.

During the second trimester of pregnancy there are a few hormone surges which do or do not happen depending on the sex of the child. One of these is a testosterone surge which makes the child develop a male body. Irregularities in this hormone soup can cause an incomplete gender assignment...specifically, the thalamus interprets pheromones sensed by the
olfactory epithelium to be of the opposite sex, when in fact the pheromones are from the same-sex, thus causing same-sex attraction.

This is not correctable.

Okay so this explains why that website on "people can change"
is full of stories of people saying their conditions were related to "sex-related stress disorders"

People Can Change - An alternative healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.

So this is why Inevitable was saying this is not the same
as people born homosexual, Right?

Then we ARE talking about two totally unrelated types:
* homosexuality that has physical causes by birth (which you are saying
explains why some cannot change their orientation)
* homosexual attractions caused by "sex-related stress disorders"
that are NOT from birth and CAN possibly be changed.

Great!

Can we use this to argue that both sides are RIGHT:
some can change and some can't.

instead of both sides arguing ALL are born that way and NONE can change
vs. NONE are born that way and ALL can change. and thus both being WRONG.