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The "type" you're talking about isn't homosexuality at all. You're talking about sex related stress disorders, not a sexual orientation. Therefore it's just you who are wrong as you're uneducated on the topic.Okay so this explains why that website on "people can change"
is full of stories of people saying their conditions were related to "sex-related stress disorders"
People Can Change - An alternative healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
So this is why Inevitable was saying this is not the same
as people born homosexual, Right?
Then we ARE talking about two totally unrelated types:
* homosexuality that has physical causes by birth (which you are saying
explains why some cannot change their orientation)
* homosexual attractions caused by "sex-related stress disorders"
that are NOT from birth and CAN possibly be changed.
Great!
Can we use this to argue that both sides are RIGHT:
some can change and some can't.
instead of both sides arguing ALL are born that way and NONE can change
vs. NONE are born that way and ALL can change. and thus both being WRONG.
A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists
Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks
Sorry but there is a difference between
being "born gay genetically"
and born gay spiritually.
If scientists can prove that a person's unique identity is formed at conception
by when the DNA of both parents mixes to make a unique combination,
that PHYSICAL identity is STILL DIFFERENT from spiritual identity and life/choices/personality.
So just because PHYSICAL life begins at conception
doesn't define when SPIRITUAL life begins,
which many will say is before physical birth and goes on after physical death.
The issue that people cannot prove using science
(but maybe by social statistics) is if people's
identity is something determined in the SPIRIT.
Sexual attraction is PHYSICAL life. I have yet to meet a single person who made a conscious decision who they would be attracted to.
Yes I agree. the spiritual affects or even determines the physical.
What I think people are arguing is it ISN'T the other way.
It isn't the physical determining the spiritual.
It isn't the genetics alone causing it.
Genetics is a factor by which it manifests,
but isn't the cause.
The studies on twins are interpreted both ways
the fact that the chances are HIGHER of having the same orientation
are MORE than 50/50 (I think it is 53 to 47 or something like that)
but it isn't 100% matching shows it isn't genetically decided,
or else both twins would always match in orientation.
Some people say the higher tendency to match means there
is some predilection, depending how you interpret those stats.
Even if twins have the same physical genetics,
you can easily argue their SPIRIT or personality/soul is
different. So you can argue the difference in
orientation relates to THAT level.
NOTE: this still leaves it open to debate if people can change on the Spiritual level or not.
But the advantage to pushing the argument on the Spiritual level is that it takes it out of
the range of govt. Govt and laws cannot be used to impose a belief bias or opinion
on SPIRITUAL issues, processes or decisions that are Personal to people.
So that would get the state out of it or get these policies out of state hands.
If we agree it is a spiritual issue that belongs to individuals and cannot be regulated by govt.
A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists
Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks
Sorry but there is a difference between
being "born gay genetically"
and born gay spiritually.
If scientists can prove that a person's unique identity is formed at conception
by when the DNA of both parents mixes to make a unique combination,
that PHYSICAL identity is STILL DIFFERENT from spiritual identity and life/choices/personality.
So just because PHYSICAL life begins at conception
doesn't define when SPIRITUAL life begins,
which many will say is before physical birth and goes on after physical death.
The issue that people cannot prove using science
(but maybe by social statistics) is if people's
identity is something determined in the SPIRIT.
Sexual attraction is PHYSICAL life. I have yet to meet a single person who made a conscious decision who they would be attracted to.
Yes I agree. the spiritual affects or even determines the physical.
What I think people are arguing is it ISN'T the other way.
It isn't the physical determining the spiritual.
It isn't the genetics alone causing it.
Genetics is a factor by which it manifests,
but isn't the cause.
The studies on twins are interpreted both ways
the fact that the chances are HIGHER of having the same orientation
are MORE than 50/50 (I think it is 53 to 47 or something like that)
but it isn't 100% matching shows it isn't genetically decided,
or else both twins would always match in orientation.
Some people say the higher tendency to match means there
is some predilection, depending how you interpret those stats.
Even if twins have the same physical genetics,
you can easily argue their SPIRIT or personality/soul is
different. So you can argue the difference in
orientation relates to THAT level.
NOTE: this still leaves it open to debate if people can change on the Spiritual level or not.
But the advantage to pushing the argument on the Spiritual level is that it takes it out of
the range of govt. Govt and laws cannot be used to impose a belief bias or opinion
on SPIRITUAL issues, processes or decisions that are Personal to people.
So that would get the state out of it or get these policies out of state hands.
If we agree it is a spiritual issue that belongs to individuals and cannot be regulated by govt.
It is the genetics. Your environment will affect personality types you might be attracted to. If you were abused as a child you might seek out abusive partners. You might seek out someone like your father or your mother. But whether you are attracted to a given sex is entirely physical. You may well fight that attraction, but you have no choice in having the attraction. I have no attraction to men at all and I seriously doubt I could engage in sex with one. I could be raped, but I wouldn't get an erection because men do nothing for me. I have known a few men who felt exactly the same way about women. They would be incapable of engaging in sex with them. I did not choose this and neither did they. This has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality.
Polygamy is legal in Utah. Do your research before you attempt to show off your glow.
Being legally married to more than one person is not legal in Utah.
Has anyone made that known to the men in Arizona City?
What is this "Arizona City" you speak of?
*****************************************
Just to clarify, it is legal for someone to consider themselves in a polygamous relationship more than one "partner" or "spritual wives". However that is not the same think as being legally married to more than one spouse.
>>>>
Polygamy Is Legal In Utah, For Now. A federal judge issued a final ruling Wednesday in the so-called Sister Wives case, handing the stars of the TLC show a resounding victory. The Brown family, who rose to prominence on the TLC reality show “Sister Wives.”
Mea Culpa; should have been Colorado City, Arizona.
When gays asked the general public to support their cause it became everyone's buisness.Why does anyone care if being gay is a choice or not?
Either way it's none of your fucking business is it?
Alcoholism is correctable, homosexuality is not.Homosexuality is a birth defect where the brain interprets pheromones as the opposite sex, thus causing same-sex attraction. This means gays are indeed born that way. It's like a disability and like disabilities we should alter the law in a way that allows them to live productive lives.A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists
Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks
Should we also allow alcoholics to drink, or should we try to encourage them to stop?
Mark
Unnatural homosexuality can be healed.
It depends on the person and spiritually what their process is in life.
See "Can homosexuality be healed" by Francis MacNutt
Some can and some cannot change, it depends.
I've met people who weren't Christian who were able to change.
I've met people who WERE Christian and prayed, and still did not change.
I met someone who healed first spiritually, after coming out as transgender,
and didn't decide to go through chemical therapy until AFTER the spiritual healing.
while others use spiritual healing to get rid of the "unwanted orientation"
and restore their "natural selves as heterosexual"; others do the opposite
and when they restore their "natural self" they come out as homosexual or transgender.
Just because one person can change doesn't mean another one can.
Just because one person can't change, doesn't meant another person can't.
The "type" you're talking about isn't homosexuality at all. You're talking about sex related stress disorders, not a sexual orientation. Therefore it's just you who are wrong as you're uneducated on the topic.Okay so this explains why that website on "people can change"
is full of stories of people saying their conditions were related to "sex-related stress disorders"
People Can Change - An alternative healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
So this is why Inevitable was saying this is not the same
as people born homosexual, Right?
Then we ARE talking about two totally unrelated types:
* homosexuality that has physical causes by birth (which you are saying
explains why some cannot change their orientation)
* homosexual attractions caused by "sex-related stress disorders"
that are NOT from birth and CAN possibly be changed.
Great!
Can we use this to argue that both sides are RIGHT:
some can change and some can't.
instead of both sides arguing ALL are born that way and NONE can change
vs. NONE are born that way and ALL can change. and thus both being WRONG.
When gays asked the general public to support their cause it became everyone's buisness.Why does anyone care if being gay is a choice or not?
Either way it's none of your fucking business is it?
Quite true. And they are right.
Silliest comment of the day, "Unnatural homosexuality can be healed."
A statement by the Royal College of Psychiatrists that people are not born gay has been welcomed as "a major admission" by a Christian charity that helps men and women change unwanted same-sex feelings.
Core Issues Trust (CIT), which is campaigning against a ban on therapy being offered to people who want to move away from a homosexual lifestyle, says the latest statement by the Royal College admits what it previously denied
People Are Not Born Gay Affirms Royal College of Psychiatrists
Yep, even if it was genetic, it is still your choice to have same-sex pleasure or not. Anyone and everyone has a choice. Say yes or say no. It is really that simple...BUT queers choose to suck each other's dicks
Sorry but there is a difference between
being "born gay genetically"
and born gay spiritually.
If scientists can prove that a person's unique identity is formed at conception
by when the DNA of both parents mixes to make a unique combination,
that PHYSICAL identity is STILL DIFFERENT from spiritual identity and life/choices/personality.
So just because PHYSICAL life begins at conception
doesn't define when SPIRITUAL life begins,
which many will say is before physical birth and goes on after physical death.
The issue that people cannot prove using science
(but maybe by social statistics) is if people's
identity is something determined in the SPIRIT.
Sexual attraction is PHYSICAL life. I have yet to meet a single person who made a conscious decision who they would be attracted to.
Yes I agree. the spiritual affects or even determines the physical.
What I think people are arguing is it ISN'T the other way.
It isn't the physical determining the spiritual.
It isn't the genetics alone causing it.
Genetics is a factor by which it manifests,
but isn't the cause.
The studies on twins are interpreted both ways
the fact that the chances are HIGHER of having the same orientation
are MORE than 50/50 (I think it is 53 to 47 or something like that)
but it isn't 100% matching shows it isn't genetically decided,
or else both twins would always match in orientation.
Some people say the higher tendency to match means there
is some predilection, depending how you interpret those stats.
Even if twins have the same physical genetics,
you can easily argue their SPIRIT or personality/soul is
different. So you can argue the difference in
orientation relates to THAT level.
NOTE: this still leaves it open to debate if people can change on the Spiritual level or not.
But the advantage to pushing the argument on the Spiritual level is that it takes it out of
the range of govt. Govt and laws cannot be used to impose a belief bias or opinion
on SPIRITUAL issues, processes or decisions that are Personal to people.
So that would get the state out of it or get these policies out of state hands.
If we agree it is a spiritual issue that belongs to individuals and cannot be regulated by govt.
It is the genetics. Your environment will affect personality types you might be attracted to. If you were abused as a child you might seek out abusive partners. You might seek out someone like your father or your mother. But whether you are attracted to a given sex is entirely physical. You may well fight that attraction, but you have no choice in having the attraction. I have no attraction to men at all and I seriously doubt I could engage in sex with one. I could be raped, but I wouldn't get an erection because men do nothing for me. I have known a few men who felt exactly the same way about women. They would be incapable of engaging in sex with them. I did not choose this and neither did they. This has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality.
Okay, so again.
this means what you describe is entirely different from
what these men experienced on the website, copied below, where they went through a SPIRITUAL journey and process
to change where these influences were coming from for THEM: People Can Change - An alternative healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
So again you are saying there are TWO different sets of experiences going on.
And if these are not related, then we have no business using one to define or judge the other. Right?
When gays asked the general public to support their cause it became everyone's buisness.Why does anyone care if being gay is a choice or not?
Either way it's none of your fucking business is it?
Quite true. And they are right.
Okay so should it be everyone's business if Christianity is true and and spiritual healing is universal and
can be proven by science. Because it affects all of us if it IS true and can be used to cure the
causes of disease and crimes to lower the cost to society of these problems going unresolved.
If the behavior was changed, then that person was not homosexual to begin with. They didn't have a "type" of homosexuality, they weren't homosexual at all.That's fine if you want to call it "sex-related stress disorders"
The point I'm trying to make is how to distinguish these two.
If you AGREE they are different, that's good enough.
Other people are lumping "all homosexuals as this sex-related stress disorder type"
And I am saying that's wrong to say all cases are the same.
I cannot help if people still call that homosexuality or not.
All I am trying to reach an agreement on is that
there are TWO DIFFERENT types of scenarios going on.
You can call it whatever language it takes to DISTINGUISH THEM.
That's fine, I'm not arguing with you about that.
But if THIS is what other people mean when they say they "changed their homosexual orientation"
I am also going to let THEM use THEIR language for "sex-related stress disorders"
If you don't like the term homosexuality used for both of these,
do you want to call it Type A and Type B?
So if some people call it all homosexuality
then we can still agree that Type A are the type that cannot change
and Type B are the type that can.
And you can say only Type A is homosexuality
and you call Type B "sex-related stress disorders"
But we still agree to SEPARATE Type A from Type B
and not say all homosexuality is "ONLY TYPE A"
or all homosexuality is "ONLY TYPE B"
That's what I am trying to distinguish right now.
Just even agreeing there is a DIFFERENCE
between people who CAN change and those who CANNOT.
If people cannot agree on language,
can we call these groups Type A and Type B.
Fascinating where your mind goes.Do you know the difference between gay and bisexual?Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!
She still eats the carpet, and Bill watches?
There is nothing unnatural about homosexuality.
Words cannot express how irrelevant religion is to this issue.
Seems the Mayor's wife is PROOF it's a LIFE STYLE CHOICE!!!
