How did the Universe get here?

[Derideo_Te]

Prophesy is easy!

Keep your predictions vague and have an understanding of the sociopathic nature of creatures who are among the first to begin pushing actual Sentience out of a rich and dynamic biosphere built on dog-eat-dog survival of the most fit.


Monkeys look at what's in it for them, and the path of least resistance. Unless passion takes over. Passion makes Monkeys give and that's one of the things that makes Monkeys different.


Strange how 'God' seems to bless the passionate.

​

People have that choice of what road they go down, hardly vague.

BIBLE PROPHECY WRITTEN OVER 3000 YEAR AGO gives us in great detail what these last days will be like and what events will come to pass down to the very words some world leaders will speak.

When was the last time Obama, or any other world leader for that matter, used terms like "verily, verily", "committeth", "buildeth", "saith" and "spake" to choose just a few at random?

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Oh look, Cabbie's changed his avatar! Looks like you've been playing in your shit again.

You know, I would love to respond to all your false allegations but you're a troll, and I don't waste my time on trolls. I think I'll log off USMB for now and go play with my grandkids before one of them asks me about what that woman's doing in your sig again. Maybe if others would join me in complaining to the Admins, we could get that sexually offensive material removed?

Have a nice day!

Did you think twice about the vile filth that cranked out and about who might read that?

Is that the example you wish to set for others? No, the allegations I presented were YOUR OWN WORDS.

I'm a troll? How so? I only pointed out that you were WAY out of line, especially for the religion forum.

Have a great day and until I hear from a mod - the Sig stays.

 

[Blackrook]

I'm back. I don't have time to read 87 pages, so could someone tell me if anyone figured out how the Universe got here?

It doesn't look like people are even talking about that now.

 

[Boss]

I'm back. I don't have time to read 87 pages, so could someone tell me if anyone figured out how the Universe got here?

It doesn't look like people are even talking about that now.

No one figured it out. There were some interesting theories and speculations. Some were even presented boldly and impressively as facts, but nothing has been supported with any actual scientific evidence. They seem to actually be more interested in arguing whether God exists.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

My contention is that the fabric of the universe is, itself timeless and it was neither created nor destroyed - it changes form and between the goal-posts that we call "home," we can maybe one day figure out.

Beyond that ... is anyone's guess.

The truth is the truth - no matter what we "believe" collectively or otherwise.

If there is a god, I don't pretend to tell him/her how they did anything ... let alone, try to explain it.

 

[emilynghiem]

OK [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
let's try to find the equivalent of what you do
in place of "condemning someone to hell"

A.

Here is where we differ. We don't believe that if you don't believe like we do, that you go to hell. The other side needs to stop doing that. Those people need to stop telling that lie about god. And funny the Muslims think that about all non muslims just like the christians think that about non christians. Stop this.

A. OK so you still have some element of trying to get
"people in another group to stop doing X"

Can we talk about what makes people focus on
"the problem coming from this other group I'm not a part of"
causing division and judgment to going on back and forth in an endless cycle.

The way Christianity is supposed to be taught is to correct these same faults in yourself, among your own peers, before trying to correct what you see wrong with others.

Can we agree BOTH people in theist or nontheist groups
don't want ANYONE going around "telling lies"

So if that is a common principle, we can at least agree we share the same goal.
Then we can go about determining which steps bring us closer to the goal of
establishing truth and weeding out and correcting errors.

there is no need for either "condemnation" or saying "it's always the people in that other group telling lies" because both groups can start pointing fingers at the other.

It doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same as condemning people to hell.
Maybe the equivalent is saying "that way is wrong period and causes endless problems"

Can we be SPECIFIC about which things and which ways are this wrong,
where it pinpoints the faults that apply to all people equally. So it isn't any
one group criticizing or targeting another, it's anyone from ANY group saying
when this particular act is done, by ANYONE, it causes harm so that's why it is opposed.
....
B.

Stop acting the victim whenever someone tells you they don't believe in god. Don't suggest it's because we are angry or want to sin. That's a non starter.

I was thinking the other day about this religious lady who I think likes me. Would she if she knew I didn't believe in god? My one atheist friend said he would never marry anyone dumb enough to believe in a god. I thought only theists would refuse to marry atheists. I never considered an atheist might not want to marry a theist.

Take on your fundamentalists. The 3 in 10 who think the bible stories are real, let us see you stand up to them and tell them they are crazy. Stop being neutral on this.

B. Notice I didn't say that you want to sin.
I have backed up the understanding that many people see the world in secular impersonal terms, and that is valid.

So why not promote that way as a solution.

Likewise, if someone thinks in terms of the Bible and God as their language,
why does this have to be taken away from them just because other people don't
speak or need that language.

The same approach of appreciating where someone comes from with nontheistic perspective, equally applies to religious people who see the world through a Biblical lens.

Being "neutral" about language does not mean to "condone or enable abuse".

Once we agree the languages are valid, whether theistic or nontheistic terms,
THEN we can address abuses by people we oppose in any such cases,
we don't need to target one group or another. Political abuse of govt authority,
corporate abuse of legal authority, even abuse of the media can take place in secular forms and be just as bad or worse compared with religious abuses.

The point is to address any and all abuses, so yes, religious abuse is a major
area, but the same key to resolving that is found in addressing other areas
at the same time. All people who abuse others are PROJECTING their own
issues and replicating problems in relations and society. So if we get to the
source of the PROJECTION in each person, we can stop the abuses.
BEFORE they manifest as either abuse of politics, religion, media, corporate
resources, the environment, animals or people, women or children etc. etc.

If we address one another from a common base, both against abuse in any form,
that is a more compelling position to invoke change than pushing as adversaries.

So the first step is to form alliances across these barriers so we can
work together not against each other to identify and solve problems we are equally opposed to and are committed to correcting globally, including in our own relations.

 

[Derideo_Te]

My contention is that the fabric of the universe is, itself timeless and it was neither created nor destroyed - it changes form and between the goal-posts that we call "home," we can maybe one day figure out.

Beyond that ... is anyone's guess.

The truth is the truth - no matter what we "believe" collectively or otherwise.

If there is a god, I don't pretend to tell him/her how they did anything ... let alone, try to explain it.

 

[emilynghiem]

[MENTION=36773]Boss[/MENTION] sorry I was tied up at work yesterday.

I came up with an idea: instead of trying to start with your view as the default,
and have other people prove or disprove it where you are judging each other.

Why not start with a position that is the Equivalent of asking YOU to stretch and believe something beyond what you recognize,
and equate that with what you are asking others to do to consider beliefs about God.

For example, what if believing that
"animals have a partial or equal level of spirituality as humans"
is foreign to you. If asking you to "be open to consider that animals have souls"
is stretching beyond what you feel is necessary to believe or to prove,
isn't that like what you are asking others, and judging them if they reject?

That may not be the best example.
But if you can help us find something that is the "equivalent of asking you to
either believe in God or believe it is possible, and accept that it is not proven NOT to exist"

I think that would better help us make the same points.
If you can respond and show how you handle something "outside your belief system"
we can ask if the other members on here can do the same with beliefs about God.

I'm back. I don't have time to read 87 pages, so could someone tell me if anyone figured out how the Universe got here?

It doesn't look like people are even talking about that now.

No one figured it out. There were some interesting theories and speculations. Some were even presented boldly and impressively as facts, but nothing has been supported with any actual scientific evidence. They seem to actually be more interested in arguing whether God exists.

Dear [MENTION=36773]Boss[/MENTION]
I find [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION] and others to be as honest and transparent as you can ask.
I think your mutual distrust of each other as "representing" what is wrong with "all theists who judge others, or all nontheists who reject religion" is distorting your messages;
but underneath I see intelligent discerning people who can do better, after we clear out that "generalized disdain" I don't think is fair to project on any one person.

I understand there is plenty of need to vent from past abuses, on either side,
but do not think it is fair to hold people HERE responsible for everything that
"other people/groups" have done wrong up to this point. Not unless you want
to make "Trayvon Martin's" and "George Zimmerman's" out of people here to take out all past grievances on easy targets you come across to use for shooting practice.

If you must do that here, to release and lay out all past issues, fine,
but please do not blame each other, for you all have experiences
and reasons for believing or not believing as you do. Why not just work with that,
and know that's why we are here, to find out what is the universal truth
that prevails DESPITE the areas we don't agree on. What DO we agree on after all?

 

[emilynghiem]

People have that choice of what road they go down, hardly vague.

If they are not fully aware of the choices, if they still believe some choices are "false" and NOT REALLY a choice to begin with, can you really expect them to understand and change their minds?

Doesn't it reason that if someone truly understands the full impact and context
of choices, of course, they will choose the one that serves the greatest good,
the one that solves the problem, or takes a logical step in the right direction.

So if they are not choosing what is best for themselves and others,
doesn't that already tell you that their understanding of the choices is limited.

How can we help make sure the choices are clear,
and the objections to the choices offered are resolved, so those
fear or problems "don't get in the way" of making the best choices in life.

How can we be better stewards to help all our neighbors to
protect the best interests equally of themselves and all others?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Prophesy is easy!

Keep your predictions vague and have an understanding of the sociopathic nature of creatures who are among the first to begin pushing actual Sentience out of a rich and dynamic biosphere built on dog-eat-dog survival of the most fit.


Monkeys look at what's in it for them, and the path of least resistance. Unless passion takes over. Passion makes Monkeys give and that's one of the things that makes Monkeys different.


Strange how 'God' seems to bless the passionate.

​

Passion makes Monkeys give and that's one of the things that makes Monkeys different.


so untrue, no creature alive is without passion, "giving" or not is universal to all that lives.

.

True.

Dogs for instance have a huge range of emotions like love and other passions, including a fierce sense of loyalty.

Dogs give. I Like Dogs. US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


There are plenty of examples of passionate animals, Monkeys just take it to a whole 'nother level.

 

[MaryL]

When I was 8 years old, I asked my Sunday school teacher were GOD came from, (I know, could I be any more trite and hackneyed?) But, I did, being an innocent brown eyed kid with nothing to gain from it but ...honesty. My teacher told me to "wait until you get into heaven and ask GOD". That alone was the most profoundly disappointing answer I ever received, ever. If the universe is like a fine watch, and it had to have a maker, OK. WHO made the MAKER? WHO made the maker of the maker and the maker AFTER that? I don't want to disrespect religion, but you guys don't know GOD and religion is just dogma made up to support local dogmas. All it is, kids.

 

[BreezeWood]

Prophesy is easy!

Keep your predictions vague and have an understanding of the sociopathic nature of creatures who are among the first to begin pushing actual Sentience out of a rich and dynamic biosphere built on dog-eat-dog survival of the most fit.


Monkeys look at what's in it for them, and the path of least resistance. Unless passion takes over. Passion makes Monkeys give and that's one of the things that makes Monkeys different.


Strange how 'God' seems to bless the passionate.

​

Passion makes Monkeys give and that's one of the things that makes Monkeys different.


so untrue, no creature alive is without passion, "giving" or not is universal to all that lives.

.

True.

Dogs for instance have a huge range of emotions like love and other passions, including a fierce sense of loyalty.

Dogs give. http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-discussion/96947-i-like-dogs.html


There are plenty of examples of passionate animals, Monkeys just take it to a whole 'nother level.

there again, the perspective is in the eye of the beholder ...

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm back. I don't have time to read 87 pages, so could someone tell me if anyone figured out how the Universe got here?

Nope. Still an unanswered question. Possibly always will be.

So we gotta have faith.



"Got to" because no matter what you believe about how we got here, it's possible you're wrong, and here we are.

`​

 

[AVG-JOE]

I'm back. I don't have time to read 87 pages, so could someone tell me if anyone figured out how the Universe got here?

It doesn't look like people are even talking about that now.

No one figured it out. There were some interesting theories and speculations. Some were even presented boldly and impressively as facts, but nothing has been supported with any actual scientific evidence. They seem to actually be more interested in arguing whether God exists.

That makes sense... because when it comes to the question of origins, Monkeys as a group really only have two theories on the table: 'God' and 'Not God'

The answers can take an interesting 87+ page turn when Monkeys are asked to define and name the god that they think made the soup, but the two and only two possible answers to how the universe got here are God or Not God.

In case anyone was wondering, my humble opinion on the matter is Not God.

 

[AVG-JOE]

My contention is that the fabric of the universe is, itself timeless and it was neither created nor destroyed - it changes form and between the goal-posts that we call "home," we can maybe one day figure out.

Beyond that ... is anyone's guess.

The truth is the truth - no matter what we "believe" collectively or otherwise.

If there is a god, I don't pretend to tell him/her how they did anything ... let alone, try to explain it.

Truth be told, Brother... it's anyone's guess before that too.

Jus' sayin'​

 

[BreezeWood]

there will always be a Ruler for the Everlasting ... they are one in the same.

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

OK [MENTION=11281]sealybobo[/MENTION]
let's try to find the equivalent of what you do
in place of "condemning someone to hell"

A.

Here is where we differ. We don't believe that if you don't believe like we do, that you go to hell. The other side needs to stop doing that. Those people need to stop telling that lie about god. And funny the Muslims think that about all non muslims just like the christians think that about non christians. Stop this.

A. OK so you still have some element of trying to get
"people in another group to stop doing X"

Can we talk about what makes people focus on
"the problem coming from this other group I'm not a part of"
causing division and judgment to going on back and forth in an endless cycle.

The way Christianity is supposed to be taught is to correct these same faults in yourself, among your own peers, before trying to correct what you see wrong with others.

Can we agree BOTH people in theist or nontheist groups
don't want ANYONE going around "telling lies"

So if that is a common principle, we can at least agree we share the same goal.
Then we can go about determining which steps bring us closer to the goal of
establishing truth and weeding out and correcting errors.

there is no need for either "condemnation" or saying "it's always the people in that other group telling lies" because both groups can start pointing fingers at the other.

It doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same as condemning people to hell.
Maybe the equivalent is saying "that way is wrong period and causes endless problems"

Can we be SPECIFIC about which things and which ways are this wrong,
where it pinpoints the faults that apply to all people equally. So it isn't any
one group criticizing or targeting another, it's anyone from ANY group saying
when this particular act is done, by ANYONE, it causes harm so that's why it is opposed.
....
B..

Faulty compared to what, exactly?

Why focus on faults?​

With no 'Higher Standard' to reflect our 'faults' back to us, Monkeys are free.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Joe flipped his lid.

 

[HUGGY]

When I was 8 years old, I asked my Sunday school teacher were GOD came from, (I know, could I be any more trite and hackneyed?) But, I did, being an innocent brown eyed kid with nothing to gain from it but ...honesty. My teacher told me to "wait until you get into heaven and ask GOD". That alone was the most profoundly disappointing answer I ever received, ever. If the universe is like a fine watch, and it had to have a maker, OK. WHO made the MAKER? WHO made the maker of the maker and the maker AFTER that? I don't want to disrespect religion, but you guys don't know GOD and religion is just dogma made up to support local dogmas. All it is, kids.

What right do you have to ask?

Who made MaryL?

Who made who made MaryL?

Looking back 2000 years ...who made the ancesters that made the folks that eventually spawned MaryL?

When you can answer those questions you have the right to demand who made god and not before.

Christians have a document which PROVES where god was at the time the earth was made... And you and yours?

Billions of people believe god created light and earth. How many believe in your quesions?

Next thing you will ask is if there was no god would your wall switch to the light in your room still work.

God is the great equalizer. He makes stupid people as smart as the brightest non believer.

Which is how it should be.

 

[MaryL]

87 pages of drek on this thread will seem short if you ever tried to read the bible.