How did the Universe get here?

[M.D. Rawlings]

The big bang theory has nothing to do with the size of the universe.

So I need a link that proves your allegation that "this universe is finite".

I wasn't alluding to its size, I was alluding to its finite existence. It had a definite beginning and is expanding.

That wasn't what you originally alleged. You made a definitive statement that "this universe is finite". However you have no way to measure the extent of the universe beyond our ability to detect what is out there. You also have no ability to detect how long the universe has existed prior to the big bang.

So it is fallacious to claim that the universe is finite given what isn't known.

What the hell is wrong with you?

The universe is finite. Period. It had a definite beginning and is expanding. I was NEVER talking about its size. The term finite describes anything that is limited, fixed or restricted: in time or duration, number or amount . . . not just size or expanse.

The only confusion here is due to the deficiency in your vocabulary.

Relative to the Big Bang Theory, the universe is commonly said to be finite, i.e., having a definite beginning, not eternally existent. Check? It arose from a fluctuation of gravitational energy in the quantum vacuum, which precedes time and space as we know it.

What you're talking about goes to the distinction between the universe proper and the observable universe: Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now go away, you infant. Go bother your parents.
______________________________

Yesterday, with regard to the issue of origins, some doofus was going on about how the classic, centuries-old argument of infinite regression, and the observation regarding the apparent absolute rational forms and logical categories of human consciousness, coupled with the apparent synchronization of the external world and our calculi of it, are the stuff of appeals to authority and some inane bullshit about the so-called God in the gaps fallacy. Sophomoric, second-rate intellects. Relativist yahoos. Never mind that we must necessarily presuppose the actuality of these things in order to do science in the first friggin' place!

Now this stupid shit.

Ya want a link, dumbass. Here's a link for ya. Digest this: Prufrock's Lair: A Mountain of Nothin' out of Somethin' or Another

 

[sealybobo]

take your pick.....

When were the books of the Bible written? - Bible FAQ | United Church of God
When Were the Books of the Bible Written? : Media History Project : U of M
When was the Bible written and who wrote it? | List of Dates Bible Written | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Dating the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When were the Bible books written?

if that's not enough google "when were the books of the bible written"......

The Gospel According to Matthew is generally believed to have been composed between 70 and 110.

So lets say it was written 110 years after the supposed son of god walked the earth and did miracles. I'm supposed to believe that?

The anonymous author was probably a highly educated Jew, intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, and the disciple Matthew was probably honored within his circle.

Does it blow theists mind when they realize Matthew didn't write Matthew?

why would it blow my mind to learn an atheist denies Matthew wrote Matthew......I ignore most of the ridiculous statements atheists make....I gave you five links that dated it earlier....you gave me jack shit....

A very small minority of historians agree that it is any earlier than 70 years after Christ died. Would that even be considered credible testamony in a court of law? NOPE!

 

[sealybobo]

I go home and think and think and I watch those religious shows

so your entire data base for religion is your imagination and tele-evangelists?.....understood....

Why there is no god

do you realize the author of the link you claim holds all the answers doesn't even give us his name?.....he may know even less about religion than you do, and you know nothing about it except what you learned from a tele-evangelist......

I base my conclusions on years of investigation. First, I was born into christianity and told the lie from when I was very young. Then my parents didn't force us to go to church every sunder but we went on christmas, easter, baptisms and weddings. Then I got into it after college but then as an adult figured out that all man made religions are bullshit. Came up with completely on my own. Maybe I asked around and got other peoples input first, but eventually I just had a personal relationship with this god. It never dawned on me there was no god. That's pretty stupid despite all I'm going on is what a corrupt church has told us is true for 2000 years. Not only that, shit that couldn't possibly be true. I never really thought about it that much. Then I ran into some atheists who showed me some of the greatest atheist speakers. Oh yea, and before that George Carlin. He is a big reason I'm an atheist. Remember his routine about how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever told? So funny and so true.

Anyways, I almost feel sorry for you guys. I would feel sorry for you but actually I feel sorry for me because I have to live with you fools. There are too many sheep in this world. Anyone who believes in god is a sheep not a shepherd. Actually I take that back because a lot of smart people believe in god.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

 

[sealybobo]

take your pick.....

When were the books of the Bible written? - Bible FAQ | United Church of God
When Were the Books of the Bible Written? : Media History Project : U of M
When was the Bible written and who wrote it? | List of Dates Bible Written | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Dating the Bible - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
When were the Bible books written?

if that's not enough google "when were the books of the bible written"......

The Gospel According to Matthew is generally believed to have been composed between 70 and 110.

So lets say it was written 110 years after the supposed son of god walked the earth and did miracles. I'm supposed to believe that?

The anonymous author was probably a highly educated Jew, intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, and the disciple Matthew was probably honored within his circle.

Does it blow theists mind when they realize Matthew didn't write Matthew?

why would it blow my mind to learn an atheist denies Matthew wrote Matthew......I ignore most of the ridiculous statements atheists make....I gave you five links that dated it earlier....you gave me jack shit....

Want proof you might have swallowed a lie? Look at the little muslim boys and girls in afganistan right now praying 5 times a day to Allah. If you were born there you'd be praying to Allah too, not Jesus Christ. So it seems you would swallow any lie you are born into. Don't be upset though because you are just one of the typical masses or sheep of the world.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Are you sure?

All Species Evolved From Single Cell, Study Finds

absolutely.....can you document it happening?..........

You don't need proof to believe what you believe. You simply believe what your elders/leaders/rules have told you. You swallowed it all, even the unbelievable stuff. So how can I even take you seriously?

Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth (the Christ) as portrayed in the Bible is only found in three places: the Bible itself, other early Christian writings, and references by the various early churches (c. 100 CE) to the long-dead leader of those churches. The only known possible contemporaneous (i.e. someone who lived during the supposed time of c. 6 BCE to c. 36 CE) source regarding Jesus is Paul who expressly states that he got his information through revelation, not any human being

Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus Christ - RationalWiki

 

[Youwerecreated]

How did the Universe (i.e. everything that exists) get here?

And if you believe there are multiple universes, then how did the Multiverse get here?

We know the Universe wasn't always here, and will end sometime in the future.

How did everything begin, and what happens after the end?

I'm looking for an answer from those of you who say God definitely does not exist.

The farthest back that science can trace origins is to the quantum vacuum.

Please provide a credible scientific link that establishes that the universe was ever in an absolute quantum vacuum state.

Face it ,you are arguing against science now in support of your religious ignorance

 

[Derideo_Te]

I wasn't alluding to its size, I was alluding to its finite existence. It had a definite beginning and is expanding.

That wasn't what you originally alleged. You made a definitive statement that "this universe is finite". However you have no way to measure the extent of the universe beyond our ability to detect what is out there. You also have no ability to detect how long the universe has existed prior to the big bang.

So it is fallacious to claim that the universe is finite given what isn't known.

What the hell is wrong with you?

The universe is finite. Period. It had a definite beginning and is expanding. I was NEVER talking about its size. The term finite describes anything that is limited, fixed or restricted: in time or duration, number or amount . . . not just size or expanse.

The only confusion here is due to the deficiency in your vocabulary.

Relative to the Big Bang Theory, the universe is commonly said to be finite, i.e., having a definite beginning, not eternally existent. Check? It arose from a fluctuation of gravitational energy in the quantum vacuum, which precedes time and space as we know it.

What you're talking about goes to the distinction between the universe proper and the observable universe: Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now go away, you infant. Go bother your parents.
______________________________

Yesterday, with regard to the issue of origins, some doofus was going on about how the classic, centuries-old argument of infinite regression, and the observation regarding the apparent absolute rational forms and logical categories of human consciousness, coupled with the apparent synchronization of the external world and our calculi of it, are the stuff of appeals to authority and some inane bullshit about the so-called God in the gaps fallacy. Sophomoric, second-rate intellects. Relativist yahoos. Never mind that we must necessarily presuppose the actuality of these things in order to do science in the first friggin' place!

Now this stupid shit.

Ya want a link, dumbass. Here's a link for ya. Digest this: Prufrock's Lair: A Mountain of Nothin' out of Somethin' or Another

Let me see, should I believe a temper challenged foul mouthed poster on USMB or a fully accredited and highly respected scientist?

Is the Universe finite or infinite? An interview with Joseph Silk / Space Science / Our Activities / ESA

ESA: Is the Universe finite or infinite?

Joseph Silk:
We don't know. The expanding Universe theory says that the Universe could expand forever [that corresponds to a 'flat' Universe]. And that is probably the model of the Universe that we feel closest to now. But it could also be finite, because it could be that the Universe has a very large volume now, but finite, and that that volume will increase, so only in the infinite future will it actually be infinite.

ESA: It sounds like a game of words, is it?

Joseph Silk:
No. We do not know whether the Universe is finite or not. To give you an example, imagine the geometry of the Universe in two dimensions as a plane. It is flat, and a plane is normally infinite. But you can take a sheet of paper [an 'infinite' sheet of paper] and you can roll it up and make a cylinder, and you can roll the cylinder again and make a torus [like the shape of a doughnut]. The surface of the torus is also spatially flat, but it is finite. So you have two possibilities for a flat Universe: one infinite, like a plane, and one finite, like a torus, which is also flat.

ESA: ‘Flat' seems to have a different meaning to non-scientists. By 'flat' we understand to be like a table, which has width. Does the Universe have width?

Joseph Silk:
Flat is just a two-dimensional analogy. What we mean is that the Universe is 'Euclidean', meaning that parallel lines always run parallel, and that the angles of a triangle add up to 180o. Now, the two-dimensional equivalent to that is a plane, an infinite sheet of paper. On the surface of that plane you can draw parallel lines that will never meet. A curved geometry would be a sphere. If you draw parallel lines on a sphere, these lines will meet at a certain point, and if you draw a triangle its angles add up more than 180o. So the surface of the sphere is not flat. It's a finite space but it's not flat, while the surface of a torus is a flat space.

ESA: Planck will measure the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), which carries information on the geometry of the Universe. Will we be able to find out if the Universe is finite or not?

Joseph Silk:
Even if with our Cosmic Microwave Background data we can prove that the Universe is flat, we still won't know whether it's finite or infinite.

 

[PostmodernProph]

The Gospel According to Matthew is generally believed to have been composed between 70 and 110.

So lets say it was written 110 years after the supposed son of god walked the earth and did miracles. I'm supposed to believe that?

The anonymous author was probably a highly educated Jew, intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, and the disciple Matthew was probably honored within his circle.

Does it blow theists mind when they realize Matthew didn't write Matthew?

why would it blow my mind to learn an atheist denies Matthew wrote Matthew......I ignore most of the ridiculous statements atheists make....I gave you five links that dated it earlier....you gave me jack shit....

A very small minority of historians agree that it is any earlier than 70 years after Christ died. Would that even be considered credible testamony in a court of law? NOPE!

I don't suppose you have a link to something other than an atheistsRus web site to back that up do you....please, this time quote someone who isn't afraid to admit what their name is......

 

[Derideo_Te]

The farthest back that science can trace origins is to the quantum vacuum.

Please provide a credible scientific link that establishes that the universe was ever in an absolute quantum vacuum state.

Face it ,you are arguing against science now in support of your religious ignorance

No, I am applying equal scientific rigor to the allegations of those who are making claims on either side of the debate.

Something that you cannot do because you only have your imaginary beliefs rather than any method for determining the facts from the fiction you have absolute faith in.

 

[PostmodernProph]

The Gospel According to Matthew is generally believed to have been composed between 70 and 110.

So lets say it was written 110 years after the supposed son of god walked the earth and did miracles. I'm supposed to believe that?

The anonymous author was probably a highly educated Jew, intimately familiar with the technical aspects of Jewish law, and the disciple Matthew was probably honored within his circle.

Does it blow theists mind when they realize Matthew didn't write Matthew?

why would it blow my mind to learn an atheist denies Matthew wrote Matthew......I ignore most of the ridiculous statements atheists make....I gave you five links that dated it earlier....you gave me jack shit....

Want proof you might have swallowed a lie?

that's usually the case when someone asks you for proof......they want it.....got some?.....

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

I go home and think and think and I watch those religious shows

so your entire data base for religion is your imagination and tele-evangelists?.....understood....

Why there is no god

do you realize the author of the link you claim holds all the answers doesn't even give us his name?.....he may know even less about religion than you do, and you know nothing about it except what you learned from a tele-evangelist......

I base my conclusions on years of investigation. First, I was born into christianity and told the lie from when I was very young. Then my parents didn't force us to go to church every sunder but we went on christmas, easter, baptisms and weddings. Then I got into it after college but then as an adult figured out that all man made religions are bullshit. Came up with completely on my own. Maybe I asked around and got other peoples input first, but eventually I just had a personal relationship with this god. It never dawned on me there was no god. That's pretty stupid despite all I'm going on is what a corrupt church has told us is true for 2000 years. Not only that, shit that couldn't possibly be true. I never really thought about it that much. Then I ran into some atheists who showed me some of the greatest atheist speakers. Oh yea, and before that George Carlin. He is a big reason I'm an atheist. Remember his routine about how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever told? So funny and so true.

Anyways, I almost feel sorry for you guys. I would feel sorry for you but actually I feel sorry for me because I have to live with you fools. There are too many sheep in this world. Anyone who believes in god is a sheep not a shepherd. Actually I take that back because a lot of smart people believe in god.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

Another slogan-spouting doofus pops up, another second-rate intellect blathering psychobabble.

Tell us, Mr. Atheist, every time you open you yap to deny God's existence, are you not necessarily conceding the fact that the construct of an eternally subsistent consciousness of origin objectively exists in and of itself, i.e., the potentiality universally imposes itself on our minds without our willing that it do so, or are you just pulling on our legs?

LOL!

Atheism: the refuge of nose-picking hayseeds, arrogant little pricks, bootlicking statists, sophomoric yahoos and intellectual sociopaths, "full of high sentence but a bit obtuse."

 

[Youwerecreated]

That wasn't what you originally alleged. You made a definitive statement that "this universe is finite". However you have no way to measure the extent of the universe beyond our ability to detect what is out there. You also have no ability to detect how long the universe has existed prior to the big bang.

So it is fallacious to claim that the universe is finite given what isn't known.

What the hell is wrong with you?

The universe is finite. Period. It had a definite beginning and is expanding. I was NEVER talking about its size. The term finite describes anything that is limited, fixed or restricted: in time or duration, number or amount . . . not just size or expanse.

The only confusion here is due to the deficiency in your vocabulary.

Relative to the Big Bang Theory, the universe is commonly said to be finite, i.e., having a definite beginning, not eternally existent. Check? It arose from a fluctuation of gravitational energy in the quantum vacuum, which precedes time and space as we know it.

What you're talking about goes to the distinction between the universe proper and the observable universe: Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now go away, you infant. Go bother your parents.
______________________________

Yesterday, with regard to the issue of origins, some doofus was going on about how the classic, centuries-old argument of infinite regression, and the observation regarding the apparent absolute rational forms and logical categories of human consciousness, coupled with the apparent synchronization of the external world and our calculi of it, are the stuff of appeals to authority and some inane bullshit about the so-called God in the gaps fallacy. Sophomoric, second-rate intellects. Relativist yahoos. Never mind that we must necessarily presuppose the actuality of these things in order to do science in the first friggin' place!

Now this stupid shit.

Ya want a link, dumbass. Here's a link for ya. Digest this: Prufrock's Lair: A Mountain of Nothin' out of Somethin' or Another

Let me see, should I believe a temper challenged foul mouthed poster on USMB or a fully accredited and highly respected scientist?

Is the Universe finite or infinite? An interview with Joseph Silk / Space Science / Our Activities / ESA

ESA: Is the Universe finite or infinite?

Joseph Silk:
We don't know. The expanding Universe theory says that the Universe could expand forever [that corresponds to a 'flat' Universe]. And that is probably the model of the Universe that we feel closest to now. But it could also be finite, because it could be that the Universe has a very large volume now, but finite, and that that volume will increase, so only in the infinite future will it actually be infinite.

ESA: It sounds like a game of words, is it?

Joseph Silk:
No. We do not know whether the Universe is finite or not. To give you an example, imagine the geometry of the Universe in two dimensions as a plane. It is flat, and a plane is normally infinite. But you can take a sheet of paper [an 'infinite' sheet of paper] and you can roll it up and make a cylinder, and you can roll the cylinder again and make a torus [like the shape of a doughnut]. The surface of the torus is also spatially flat, but it is finite. So you have two possibilities for a flat Universe: one infinite, like a plane, and one finite, like a torus, which is also flat.

ESA: ‘Flat' seems to have a different meaning to non-scientists. By 'flat' we understand to be like a table, which has width. Does the Universe have width?

Joseph Silk:
Flat is just a two-dimensional analogy. What we mean is that the Universe is 'Euclidean', meaning that parallel lines always run parallel, and that the angles of a triangle add up to 180o. Now, the two-dimensional equivalent to that is a plane, an infinite sheet of paper. On the surface of that plane you can draw parallel lines that will never meet. A curved geometry would be a sphere. If you draw parallel lines on a sphere, these lines will meet at a certain point, and if you draw a triangle its angles add up more than 180o. So the surface of the sphere is not flat. It's a finite space but it's not flat, while the surface of a torus is a flat space.

ESA: Planck will measure the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), which carries information on the geometry of the Universe. Will we be able to find out if the Universe is finite or not?

Joseph Silk:
Even if with our Cosmic Microwave Background data we can prove that the Universe is flat, we still won't know whether it's finite or infinite.

So you don't trust Hawking,how bout Nasa ?

Recent measurements (c. 2001) by a number of ground-based and balloon-based experiments, including MAT/TOCO, Boomerang, Maxima, and DASI, have shown that the brightest spots are about 1 degree across. Thus the universe was known to be flat to within about 15% accuracy prior to the WMAP results. WMAP has confirmed this result with very high accuracy and precision. We now know (as of 2013) that the universe is flat with only a 0.4% margin of error. This suggests that the Universe is infinite in extent; however, since the Universe has a finite age, we can only observe a finite volume of the Universe. All we can truly conclude is that the Universe is much larger than the volume we can directly observe.

WMAP- Shape of the Universe

 

[Derideo_Te]

so your entire data base for religion is your imagination and tele-evangelists?.....understood....


do you realize the author of the link you claim holds all the answers doesn't even give us his name?.....he may know even less about religion than you do, and you know nothing about it except what you learned from a tele-evangelist......

I base my conclusions on years of investigation. First, I was born into christianity and told the lie from when I was very young. Then my parents didn't force us to go to church every sunder but we went on christmas, easter, baptisms and weddings. Then I got into it after college but then as an adult figured out that all man made religions are bullshit. Came up with completely on my own. Maybe I asked around and got other peoples input first, but eventually I just had a personal relationship with this god. It never dawned on me there was no god. That's pretty stupid despite all I'm going on is what a corrupt church has told us is true for 2000 years. Not only that, shit that couldn't possibly be true. I never really thought about it that much. Then I ran into some atheists who showed me some of the greatest atheist speakers. Oh yea, and before that George Carlin. He is a big reason I'm an atheist. Remember his routine about how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever told? So funny and so true.

Anyways, I almost feel sorry for you guys. I would feel sorry for you but actually I feel sorry for me because I have to live with you fools. There are too many sheep in this world. Anyone who believes in god is a sheep not a shepherd. Actually I take that back because a lot of smart people believe in god.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

Another slogan-spouting doofus pops up, another second-rate intellect blathering psychobabble.

Tell us, Mr. Atheist, every time you open you yap to deny God's existence, are you not necessarily conceding the fact that the construct of an eternally subsistent consciousness of origin objectively exists in and of itself, i.e., the potentiality universally imposes itself on our minds without our willing that it do so, or are you just pulling on our legs?

LOL!

Atheism: the refuge of nose-picking hayseeds, arrogant little pricks, bootlicking statists, sophomoric yahoos and intellectual sociopaths, "full of high sentence but a bit obtuse."

Ironic!



DECELERATION ALERT!

[MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=46168]Statistikhengst[/MENTION]

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

That wasn't what you originally alleged. You made a definitive statement that "this universe is finite". However you have no way to measure the extent of the universe beyond our ability to detect what is out there. You also have no ability to detect how long the universe has existed prior to the big bang.

So it is fallacious to claim that the universe is finite given what isn't known.

What the hell is wrong with you?

The universe is finite. Period. It had a definite beginning and is expanding. I was NEVER talking about its size. The term finite describes anything that is limited, fixed or restricted: in time or duration, number or amount . . . not just size or expanse.

The only confusion here is due to the deficiency in your vocabulary.

Relative to the Big Bang Theory, the universe is commonly said to be finite, i.e., having a definite beginning, not eternally existent. Check? It arose from a fluctuation of gravitational energy in the quantum vacuum, which precedes time and space as we know it.

What you're talking about goes to the distinction between the universe proper and the observable universe: Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now go away, you infant. Go bother your parents.
______________________________

Yesterday, with regard to the issue of origins, some doofus was going on about how the classic, centuries-old argument of infinite regression, and the observation regarding the apparent absolute rational forms and logical categories of human consciousness, coupled with the apparent synchronization of the external world and our calculi of it, are the stuff of appeals to authority and some inane bullshit about the so-called God in the gaps fallacy. Sophomoric, second-rate intellects. Relativist yahoos. Never mind that we must necessarily presuppose the actuality of these things in order to do science in the first friggin' place!

Now this stupid shit.

Ya want a link, dumbass. Here's a link for ya. Digest this: Prufrock's Lair: A Mountain of Nothin' out of Somethin' or Another

Let me see, should I believe a temper challenged foul mouthed poster on USMB or a fully accredited and highly respected scientist?

Is the Universe finite or infinite? An interview with Joseph Silk / Space Science / Our Activities / ESA

ESA: Is the Universe finite or infinite?

Joseph Silk:
We don't know. The expanding Universe theory says that the Universe could expand forever [that corresponds to a 'flat' Universe]. And that is probably the model of the Universe that we feel closest to now. But it could also be finite, because it could be that the Universe has a very large volume now, but finite, and that that volume will increase, so only in the infinite future will it actually be infinite.

ESA: It sounds like a game of words, is it?

Joseph Silk:
No. We do not know whether the Universe is finite or not. To give you an example, imagine the geometry of the Universe in two dimensions as a plane. It is flat, and a plane is normally infinite. But you can take a sheet of paper [an 'infinite' sheet of paper] and you can roll it up and make a cylinder, and you can roll the cylinder again and make a torus [like the shape of a doughnut]. The surface of the torus is also spatially flat, but it is finite. So you have two possibilities for a flat Universe: one infinite, like a plane, and one finite, like a torus, which is also flat.

ESA: ‘Flat' seems to have a different meaning to non-scientists. By 'flat' we understand to be like a table, which has width. Does the Universe have width?

Joseph Silk:
Flat is just a two-dimensional analogy. What we mean is that the Universe is 'Euclidean', meaning that parallel lines always run parallel, and that the angles of a triangle add up to 180o. Now, the two-dimensional equivalent to that is a plane, an infinite sheet of paper. On the surface of that plane you can draw parallel lines that will never meet. A curved geometry would be a sphere. If you draw parallel lines on a sphere, these lines will meet at a certain point, and if you draw a triangle its angles add up more than 180o. So the surface of the sphere is not flat. It's a finite space but it's not flat, while the surface of a torus is a flat space.

ESA: Planck will measure the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), which carries information on the geometry of the Universe. Will we be able to find out if the Universe is finite or not?

Joseph Silk:
Even if with our Cosmic Microwave Background data we can prove that the Universe is flat, we still won't know whether it's finite or infinite.

Is it crack? Dope? The ol' snort and huff? Were you born with a silver spoon, albeit, the sort one crams up one's nose? Silk is talking about cosmic geometry, you dolt. Expanse. Configuration. Silk and I, we don't have any dispute, retard . . . or is it pathological liar?

Once again, moron, I'm talking about origin, the beginning of time and space.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I believe whole heartedly in the Big Bang Theory!

GOD SPOKE! and then BANG it happened.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What the hell is wrong with you?

The universe is finite. Period. It had a definite beginning and is expanding. I was NEVER talking about its size. The term finite describes anything that is limited, fixed or restricted: in time or duration, number or amount . . . not just size or expanse.

The only confusion here is due to the deficiency in your vocabulary.

Relative to the Big Bang Theory, the universe is commonly said to be finite, i.e., having a definite beginning, not eternally existent. Check? It arose from a fluctuation of gravitational energy in the quantum vacuum, which precedes time and space as we know it.

What you're talking about goes to the distinction between the universe proper and the observable universe: Observable universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now go away, you infant. Go bother your parents.
______________________________

Yesterday, with regard to the issue of origins, some doofus was going on about how the classic, centuries-old argument of infinite regression, and the observation regarding the apparent absolute rational forms and logical categories of human consciousness, coupled with the apparent synchronization of the external world and our calculi of it, are the stuff of appeals to authority and some inane bullshit about the so-called God in the gaps fallacy. Sophomoric, second-rate intellects. Relativist yahoos. Never mind that we must necessarily presuppose the actuality of these things in order to do science in the first friggin' place!

Now this stupid shit.

Ya want a link, dumbass. Here's a link for ya. Digest this: Prufrock's Lair: A Mountain of Nothin' out of Somethin' or Another

Let me see, should I believe a temper challenged foul mouthed poster on USMB or a fully accredited and highly respected scientist?

Is the Universe finite or infinite? An interview with Joseph Silk / Space Science / Our Activities / ESA

ESA: Is the Universe finite or infinite?

Joseph Silk:
We don't know. The expanding Universe theory says that the Universe could expand forever [that corresponds to a 'flat' Universe]. And that is probably the model of the Universe that we feel closest to now. But it could also be finite, because it could be that the Universe has a very large volume now, but finite, and that that volume will increase, so only in the infinite future will it actually be infinite.

ESA: It sounds like a game of words, is it?

Joseph Silk:
No. We do not know whether the Universe is finite or not. To give you an example, imagine the geometry of the Universe in two dimensions as a plane. It is flat, and a plane is normally infinite. But you can take a sheet of paper [an 'infinite' sheet of paper] and you can roll it up and make a cylinder, and you can roll the cylinder again and make a torus [like the shape of a doughnut]. The surface of the torus is also spatially flat, but it is finite. So you have two possibilities for a flat Universe: one infinite, like a plane, and one finite, like a torus, which is also flat.

ESA: ‘Flat' seems to have a different meaning to non-scientists. By 'flat' we understand to be like a table, which has width. Does the Universe have width?

Joseph Silk:
Flat is just a two-dimensional analogy. What we mean is that the Universe is 'Euclidean', meaning that parallel lines always run parallel, and that the angles of a triangle add up to 180o. Now, the two-dimensional equivalent to that is a plane, an infinite sheet of paper. On the surface of that plane you can draw parallel lines that will never meet. A curved geometry would be a sphere. If you draw parallel lines on a sphere, these lines will meet at a certain point, and if you draw a triangle its angles add up more than 180o. So the surface of the sphere is not flat. It's a finite space but it's not flat, while the surface of a torus is a flat space.

ESA: Planck will measure the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), which carries information on the geometry of the Universe. Will we be able to find out if the Universe is finite or not?

Joseph Silk:
Even if with our Cosmic Microwave Background data we can prove that the Universe is flat, we still won't know whether it's finite or infinite.

Is it crack? Dope? The ol' snort and huff? Were you born with a silver spoon, albeit, the sort one crams up one's nose? Silk is talking about cosmic geometry, you dolt. Expanse. Configuration. Silk and I, we don't have any dispute, retard . . . or is it pathological liar?

Once again, moron, I'm talking about origin, the beginning of time and space.

Obviously you have an anger management problem. If you are unable to communicate in a civil manner you will be treated with the contempt that you deserve. Silk is dealing with the issue of a finite versus an infinite universe. You made an allegation that you cannot substantiate. Your responses are those of someone who knows that his position is untenable and resorts to vulgar personal attacks instead. That says volumes about your insecurity and immaturity.

 

[Boss]

I base my conclusions on years of investigation. First, I was born into christianity and told the lie from when I was very young. Then my parents didn't force us to go to church every sunder but we went on christmas, easter, baptisms and weddings. Then I got into it after college but then as an adult figured out that all man made religions are bullshit. Came up with completely on my own. Maybe I asked around and got other peoples input first, but eventually I just had a personal relationship with this god. It never dawned on me there was no god. That's pretty stupid despite all I'm going on is what a corrupt church has told us is true for 2000 years. Not only that, shit that couldn't possibly be true. I never really thought about it that much. Then I ran into some atheists who showed me some of the greatest atheist speakers. Oh yea, and before that George Carlin. He is a big reason I'm an atheist. Remember his routine about how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever told? So funny and so true.

Anyways, I almost feel sorry for you guys. I would feel sorry for you but actually I feel sorry for me because I have to live with you fools. There are too many sheep in this world. Anyone who believes in god is a sheep not a shepherd. Actually I take that back because a lot of smart people believe in god.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

I'm not buying your story. I don't believe you've ever personally known God. I think you are a typical low-life liberal punk who doesn't like religious morality messing up your immoral social life. Because gays can't marry, women can't kill their babies and you can't do drugs, you've decided a war has to be waged on God. You've decided it's a clever strategy to pretend you were this "god-fearing christian" who suddenly saw the light and wised up. It makes rational sense in your mind that if other people buy your bullshit story, maybe they will abandon God.

Aside from your convoluted mindless blather that seems to sometimes incoherently change in mid-sentence, all you've done is post garbage from atheist blogs. The bottom line is, you're not smart enough to know God. You are a somewhat amusing little monkey playing with his feces, but a man of vision, intelligence and clarity, you are not.

Want proof you might have swallowed a lie? Look at the little muslim boys and girls in afganistan right now praying 5 times a day to Allah. If you were born there you'd be praying to Allah too, not Jesus Christ. So it seems you would swallow any lie you are born into. Don't be upset though because you are just one of the typical masses or sheep of the world.

FYI: There are Christians in Afghanistan, believe it or not.

...just one of the typical masses...

Yes, it is typical of humans to believe in something greater than self. We represent the overwhelming majority of humanity. We always have and we always will. You represent a small insignificant sliver of society who will continue to try and subvert morality for your own personal gratification and indulgence. God has assured us your type will always and forever be in our midst, there is nothing we can do to change that. We can only hope that through the grace of God, your soul can be saved. And as impossible as that might seem, it happens all the time.

 

[sealybobo]

so your entire data base for religion is your imagination and tele-evangelists?.....understood....


do you realize the author of the link you claim holds all the answers doesn't even give us his name?.....he may know even less about religion than you do, and you know nothing about it except what you learned from a tele-evangelist......

I base my conclusions on years of investigation. First, I was born into christianity and told the lie from when I was very young. Then my parents didn't force us to go to church every sunder but we went on christmas, easter, baptisms and weddings. Then I got into it after college but then as an adult figured out that all man made religions are bullshit. Came up with completely on my own. Maybe I asked around and got other peoples input first, but eventually I just had a personal relationship with this god. It never dawned on me there was no god. That's pretty stupid despite all I'm going on is what a corrupt church has told us is true for 2000 years. Not only that, shit that couldn't possibly be true. I never really thought about it that much. Then I ran into some atheists who showed me some of the greatest atheist speakers. Oh yea, and before that George Carlin. He is a big reason I'm an atheist. Remember his routine about how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever told? So funny and so true.

Anyways, I almost feel sorry for you guys. I would feel sorry for you but actually I feel sorry for me because I have to live with you fools. There are too many sheep in this world. Anyone who believes in god is a sheep not a shepherd. Actually I take that back because a lot of smart people believe in god.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

every time you open you yap to deny God's existence, are you not necessarily conceding the fact that the construct of an eternally subsistent consciousness of origin objectively exists in and of itself, i.e., the potentiality universally imposes itself on our minds without our willing that it do so, or are you just pulling on our legs?

"

What the fuck did you just ask me? In English please. I mean seriously, re read what you just wrote and tell me if even you can make sense of what the fuck you just said...retard.

Seriously buddy, what the fuck did you just say? I mean, I keep re reading it and I know you are trying to come off as clever in debating the existence of your imaginary friend but really I'm even more confused after reading your blathering rant.

 

[sealybobo]

I base my conclusions on years of investigation. First, I was born into christianity and told the lie from when I was very young. Then my parents didn't force us to go to church every sunder but we went on christmas, easter, baptisms and weddings. Then I got into it after college but then as an adult figured out that all man made religions are bullshit. Came up with completely on my own. Maybe I asked around and got other peoples input first, but eventually I just had a personal relationship with this god. It never dawned on me there was no god. That's pretty stupid despite all I'm going on is what a corrupt church has told us is true for 2000 years. Not only that, shit that couldn't possibly be true. I never really thought about it that much. Then I ran into some atheists who showed me some of the greatest atheist speakers. Oh yea, and before that George Carlin. He is a big reason I'm an atheist. Remember his routine about how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever told? So funny and so true.

Anyways, I almost feel sorry for you guys. I would feel sorry for you but actually I feel sorry for me because I have to live with you fools. There are too many sheep in this world. Anyone who believes in god is a sheep not a shepherd. Actually I take that back because a lot of smart people believe in god.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

I'm not buying your story. I don't believe you've ever personally known God. I think you are a typical low-life liberal punk who doesn't like religious morality messing up your immoral social life. Because gays can't marry, women can't kill their babies and you can't do drugs, you've decided a war has to be waged on God. You've decided it's a clever strategy to pretend you were this "god-fearing christian" who suddenly saw the light and wised up. It makes rational sense in your mind that if other people buy your bullshit story, maybe they will abandon God.

Aside from your convoluted mindless blather that seems to sometimes incoherently change in mid-sentence, all you've done is post garbage from atheist blogs. The bottom line is, you're not smart enough to know God. You are a somewhat amusing little monkey playing with his feces, but a man of vision, intelligence and clarity, you are not.

Want proof you might have swallowed a lie? Look at the little muslim boys and girls in afganistan right now praying 5 times a day to Allah. If you were born there you'd be praying to Allah too, not Jesus Christ. So it seems you would swallow any lie you are born into. Don't be upset though because you are just one of the typical masses or sheep of the world.

FYI: There are Christians in Afghanistan, believe it or not.

...just one of the typical masses...

Yes, it is typical of humans to believe in something greater than self. We represent the overwhelming majority of humanity. We always have and we always will. You represent a small insignificant sliver of society who will continue to try and subvert morality for your own personal gratification and indulgence. God has assured us your type will always and forever be in our midst, there is nothing we can do to change that. We can only hope that through the grace of God, your soul can be saved. And as impossible as that might seem, it happens all the time.

You can doubt my sincerity all you want it doesn't change the fact that I'm being completely honest.

I think our honesty upsets you god believers. Sorry.

And remember, you guys think we are militant when all we do is debate passionately. It is us who has to put up with your side threatening us with eternal damnation. Makes you guys look even stupider than you already are.

I think attacking the stupidity we call religion is the best option. Sugar coating it or being nice doesn't seem to work. So, I'll go to hell and you can suck my dick.

 

[sealybobo]

I base my conclusions on years of investigation. First, I was born into christianity and told the lie from when I was very young. Then my parents didn't force us to go to church every sunder but we went on christmas, easter, baptisms and weddings. Then I got into it after college but then as an adult figured out that all man made religions are bullshit. Came up with completely on my own. Maybe I asked around and got other peoples input first, but eventually I just had a personal relationship with this god. It never dawned on me there was no god. That's pretty stupid despite all I'm going on is what a corrupt church has told us is true for 2000 years. Not only that, shit that couldn't possibly be true. I never really thought about it that much. Then I ran into some atheists who showed me some of the greatest atheist speakers. Oh yea, and before that George Carlin. He is a big reason I'm an atheist. Remember his routine about how religion is the greatest bullshit story ever told? So funny and so true.

Anyways, I almost feel sorry for you guys. I would feel sorry for you but actually I feel sorry for me because I have to live with you fools. There are too many sheep in this world. Anyone who believes in god is a sheep not a shepherd. Actually I take that back because a lot of smart people believe in god.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

The fact that an intelligent person holds an irrational belief is simply evidence that our brains are able to compartmentalise world-views and models from one another, usually in order to maintain a state of ‘ignorant bliss’ and escape the discomfort of cognitive dissonance.

Another slogan-spouting doofus pops up, another second-rate intellect blathering psychobabble.

Tell us, Mr. Atheist, every time you open you yap to deny God's existence, are you not necessarily conceding the fact that the construct of an eternally subsistent consciousness of origin objectively exists in and of itself, i.e., the potentiality universally imposes itself on our minds without our willing that it do so, or are you just pulling on our legs?

LOL!

Atheism: the refuge of nose-picking hayseeds, arrogant little pricks, bootlicking statists, sophomoric yahoos and intellectual sociopaths, "full of high sentence but a bit obtuse."

Ironic!



DECELERATION ALERT!

[MENTION=41527]Pogo[/MENTION] [MENTION=46168]Statistikhengst[/MENTION]

No shit. Lets just look at the question he/she/it asked me.

"are you conceding the fact that the construct of an eternally subsistent consciousness of origin objectively exists in and of itself, i.e., the potentiality universally imposes itself on our minds without our willing that it do so?"

Ok, after reading it 5 times I'm starting to maybe understand. Nope. I tried to break it down and I still don't know what the fuck this bitch just asked me.