Zone1 Why are there so many Old Testament Christians?

your concept of PHARISEES is that which you learned---
it was TAUGHT TO YOU and is a manifestation of the
hatred that CONSTANTINE had towards Pharisees who
were the backbone of the resistance to Roman Rule and
occupation and exploitation of Judea. He was also a mass
murderer of Pharisees. That Jesus attacked the money changers in the Temple and was crucified is more than enough
evidence that HE WAS A PHARISEE but by no means the only evidence. His cousin, John the Mikveh man---is virtually a confirmed Pharisee, too. Matthew was described as a tax collector. I wonder what you learned about that group--or what you learned about CAIAPHAS---the "high priest"
Constantine was 4th Century. He had absolutely nothing to do with the content of what we know as the Bible. Zip. Nada. And in all due respect, your opinion would have more credibility is you knew something about my background, experience, education and how I obtained it before making assumptions about what I know and how and why I know it.
 
Matthew was a shill for the Roman rulers----learn some history.

Citation? ... please ... most scholars believe this book was written many decades after-the-fact ... perhaps during Roman oppression ... just seems paradoxical that the NT opens with pagan doctrine ...

How about the Book of Mark? ... of which Matthew is almost a duplicate ... because in some quarters, if you don't believe what the Book of Matthews says, you're not a Christian ...

1 - And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 - And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 - Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 - Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 - Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 - Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 - Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 - Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 - Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
-- Matthew 5

Shilling for the Roman? ...
 
So you keep insisting, but there is plenty to indicate he was not. For example, Pharisees in Jesus' day followed both the written law and the oral law. Throughout the Gospels we see that while Jesus did support the Written Law, he was not much of a fan of the Oral Law--that is the what one might see as the fine print added to the written law. For example, the oral law noted that a tailor should take care not to leave that extra needle pushed into clothes he was wearing on the Sabbath.
Jesus quoted the talmud and cited the Mishnah left and right. I am not familiar with your Needle in the cloth citation nor
have I ever heard of a book called "THE ORAL LAW" In any
case the TALMUD deals in debate-----it gets debated all the
time. Difference of opinion is nothing new amongst jews --
it is not a capital crime
 
Citation? ... please ... most scholars believe this book was written many decades after-the-fact ... perhaps during Roman oppression ... just seems paradoxical that the NT opens with pagan doctrine ...

How about the Book of Mark? ... of which Matthew is almost a duplicate ... because in some quarters, if you don't believe what the Book of Matthews says, you're not a Christian ...

1 - And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 - And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 - Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 - Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 - Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 - Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 - Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 - Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 - Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
-- Matthew 5

Shilling for the Roman? ...
Matthew is described in the NT as a TAX COLLECTOR----tax collectors are described as unsavory characters----sorta like whores----for reason---they were ROMAN APPOINTEES ---the
Pharisees, in particular, despised them in the same way
that they despised the Roman appointed money changers
situated in the Temple courtyard and the appointed high priests and Herod the Roman educated Edomite that the Romans imposed as KING------now you know a bit of the situation in
Roman occupied Judea not mentioned in Jelly bean school
 
Constantine was 4th Century. He had absolutely nothing to do with the content of what we know as the Bible. Zip. Nada. And in all due respect, your opinion would have more credibility is you knew something about my background, experience, education and how I obtained it before making assumptions about what I know and how and why I know it.
Constantine sponsored the writing of the NT---which is theoretically based on prior writings, very little of which was extant at the time of the writing of the NT or presently. The
stuff is so absent that christian scholars have theorized a body
of writings which they nickname "Q" as the basis of the NT---
also not extant
Your childhood is not an issue.
 
Jesus quoted the talmud and cited the Mishnah left and right. I am not familiar with your Needle in the cloth citation nor
have I ever heard of a book called "THE ORAL LAW" In any
case the TALMUD deals in debate-----it gets debated all the
time. Difference of opinion is nothing new amongst jews --
it is not a capital crime
Constantine sponsored the writing of the NT
Neither the Talmud nor the Mishnah were in written form until the third century...two hundred years after Jesus lived. Because there was no long a Jewish Temple there was a growing anxiety Oral Tradition would be forgotten. The Talmud's written form, began in the third century, was not completed in its present form until the sixth century. The Mishnah (oral law) was written down in the third century.

Odd that you keep dragging in Constantine. Constantine's part is that he wanted to end religious quarrels, particularly the one over Arianism. He ordered bishops and religious leaders to come together and resolve their differences. It was the religious leaders, not Constantine, who gathered up all written material and decided which would be Canon and which would not. Constantine could not have cared less what was chosen to be included and what was given a pass. After the opening session, he seldom showed up to meetings of the Council of Nicaea.

You also keep mixing up Jesus with Paul. Paul was the Pharisee (Letter to the Philippians). Paul had been proud to be a Pharisee. He noted he studied under Gamaliel, that he was an ardent follower of the Law, that he pursued and persecuted the early Christians who were followers of Jesus and his ways--Jesus who was outspoken against Oral Law. Ask yourself: Would one Pharisee persecute another Pharisee? Jesus held the Ten Commandments in great esteem, saying not one iota of this Law would pass away, but he was not a fan of Oral Law--and Pharisees were. Like Paul, Pharisees were diligent in its practice. Jesus and his disciples were not--the reason Paul had originally been pursuing and persecuting them.
 
As a fallen away Catholic who has spent some time studying the Bible, I am curious as to why so many Christians embrace the Old Testament even as they seem to reject the teachings about love and equality found in the New Testament.

How well have you studied the Old Testament?

Leviticus 19:

17. “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, nor shall you rebuke your brother in any way, lest you bear sin because of him. 18. You shall not seek vengeance nor bear a grudge against the children of your people. You shall love your neighbor as yourself..."

Jesus focused on and taught about the love and equality written about in the Old Testament.
 
How well have you studied the Old Testament?

Leviticus 19:

17. “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, nor shall you rebuke your brother in any way, lest you bear sin because of him. 18. You shall not seek vengeance nor bear a grudge against the children of your people. You shall love your neighbor as yourself..."

Jesus focused on and taught about the love and equality written about in the Old Testament.
How do you reconcile that with Deut 7? Who is "the Lord" described there?
 
Because the OT is part of the entire Canon of Scripture. And Jesus preached more on sin, judgement, rand repentance than on love.and tolerance. Nowhere in Scripture is tolerance taught.. Christ's mission was to pay the full penalty for the sins of man. But as individuals we MUST make the choice whether to heed G-d's warning and be born again, or disregard it and face His wrath.
Your post reinforces why some, including Alan Watts, refer to the bible as the most dangerous book in the world because it leads to hatred, murder and theft.
 
As a Bible student and Bible teacher, it is impossible to competently understand the New Testament without a solid grounding in the Old Testament. With the possible exception of the writer of the Gospel of Luke and Acts--we have no way to know for certain--the New Testament was written by devout Jews who became Christian. But they were all raised as, schooled/educated as orthodox Jews and wrote from that perspective, history, culture, understanding.

Jesus himself certainly did not dismiss his Jewish heritage, culture or that history. Nor should we.
Did Jesus buy into the nonsense about Jews being 'the Chosen Ones'?
 
Constantine sponsored the writing of the NT---which is theoretically based on prior writings, very little of which was extant at the time of the writing of the NT or presently. The
stuff is so absent that christian scholars have theorized a body
of writings which they nickname "Q" as the basis of the NT---
also not extant
Your childhood is not an issue.
Constantine ordered that a "Bible" be written--one the pagans as well as Christians could embrace.. But it did not consist of the manuscripts that found their way into the New Testament that we have.
 
Did Jesus buy into the nonsense about Jews being 'the Chosen Ones'?
I am sure that He did as he had a solid grounding in the Jewish manuscripts that now make up what we now call the Old Testament. And after studying the histories for most of my adult life, I also believe the Jews were God's chosen people though perhaps they didn't always understand what that meant. It was from the Jews that Jesus of Nazareth was born, Jesus who was God with us here on Earth, who Christians believe was the promised Messiah, the living Christ who is still with us as the Holy Spirit.
 
I am sure that He did as he had a solid grounding in the Jewish manuscripts that now make up what we now call the Old Testament. And after studying the histories for most of my adult life, I also believe the Jews were God's chosen people though perhaps they didn't always understand what that meant. It was from the Jews that Jesus of Nazareth was born, Jesus who was God with us here on Earth, who Christians believe was the promised Messiah, the living Christ who is still with us as the Holy Spirit.
If he believed that the Jews are superior to the rest, why did he preach that God loved all men equally?
 
Did Jesus buy into the nonsense about Jews being 'the Chosen Ones'?
It will make more sense to you if you start from the position that the Israelites believed that they were chosen to establish laws and be a holy nation that was set apart from other peoples. Which is exactly what they did as they established laws that were heads and shoulders above their contemporaries of the day.
 
How do you reconcile that with Deut 7? Who is "the Lord" described there?

Jesus focused on the love and equality that was written in the Old Testament.

You may not understand certain aspects or events from the Old Testament - the same way many modern day people do not understand Paul's letter to Timothy, when he said, "...Women are to learn in silence with complete submission." (1TIM2:11)

"Do not judge, or you will be judged, by the same measure you judge others, you too will be judged."
 
The way The Lord (is it Moloch?) commands the Jews to steal the lands and kill the other races.
And yet they established laws and behaviors which were heads and shoulders above their contemporaries. You seem to have missed the forest for the trees.
 
Your post reinforces why some, including Alan Watts, refer to the bible as the most dangerous book in the world because it leads to hatred, murder and theft.
Exactly how long have you been a militant atheist?
 
It will make more sense to you if you start from the position that the Israelites believed that they were chosen to establish laws and be a holy nation that was set apart from other peoples. Which is exactly what they did as they established laws that were heads and shoulders above their contemporaries of the day.
Not persuasive sir. I tend to judge people and organizations by their actions, as words are cheap. By their murderous actions over many decades at least, it appears to me they are living up to The Lord's command in Deut 7. Whatever their "head and shoulders above laws" are, the actions that result are crimes against humanity.
 
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