Zone1 God of the Old Testament and New Testament

[foggedinn]

You always seem to bring intelligent, insightful responses. I believe the God of the OT and NT is the same God.
I Fear God every time I pay the Lord's prayer and say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. I have not always been the most forgiving of people. I understand that if I fail to forgive, I am asking God not to forgive me.

 

[Meriweather]

You always seem to bring intelligent, insightful responses. I believe the God of the OT and NT is the same God.
I Fear God every time I pay the Lord's prayer and say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. I have not always been the most forgiving of people. I understand that if I fail to forgive, I am asking God not to forgive me.

Two thoughts.

The etymology of forgiveness is that someone owes something to another. An easy example is that you loan someone a large amount of money with the promise and expectation it will be repaid. And it's not and becomes clear there is no intent to repay you. So, you forgive the debt, accept you won't be repaid, and tell that person the debt is forgiven and no need to ever repay it (even though you could really use that money!).

A little time goes by, and once again this person approaches you and begs for money. In such a circumstance, some would be thinking, "Here is my chance to show I truly forgave him for not repaying me, but...again he is asking for what I can barely afford. I need this money."

You already completely forgave him what he owed you. You forgave him that trespass--completely. Notice what the Lord's prayer does not say: It says nothing about restoring trust.

It does not say we must now still give our full trust to the person who trespassed against us and once again receive him in our debt so we can forgive him yet again. You are fully within your rights to confess you cannot spare the money and (if a close friend or relative) offer to give him an amount you can afford. Or not. You are under no obligation to him this time.

Second thought:

Full disclosure, because I generally find it easy to forgive (as I need so much forgiveness myself). Then one day something happened at work and I was at a complete loss because I knew I could never forgive this person for what he had done. Not ever. I know exactly how you feel when coming to the words as we forgive those.

I had not the strength to forgive. But who was I praying to? The most powerful being! I may not have the strength to forgive, but God has the strength, so I asked God to forgive this man as it was beyond my own strength to do so. I prayed that God would forgive him until one day--perhaps--I would have the strength to forgive him myself.

God is our Father, Abba...Remember, when we were little and something was beyond our strength, we went to Daddy for help? Same situation here (and please forgive the one I cannot forgive).

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Jesus was a gentle Rabbi and in his own way a beautiful proponent of many of the positive aspects of the Torah.

He was not the Messiah. There is no indication in the Old Testament that he would rise twice.

Then He was a LIAR AND A FALSE PROPHET. Is that the position you are taking? Think long and hard about that

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Then He was a LIAR AND A FALSE PROPHET. Is that the position you are taking? Think long and hard about that

Shockedcanadian responds with a funny emoji because he can't give an honest answer. But everyone can read what you said,

 

[shockedcanadian]

Shockedcanadian responds with a funny emoji because he can't give an honest answer. But everyone can read what you said,

You believe what I believe and I do the same. I am under no obligation to volunteer my opinion in any further detail. I expressed it succinctly.

Neither of our beliefs will intersect the fate of the other persons soul so there is no need to belabor the point.

Jesus was a great Rabbi. In many ways, he promoted the core premises of Judaism to billions of people who wouldn't have been made aware of otherwise. I judge this to be a massive feat, unmatched in history really.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Jesus was a gentle Rabbi and in his own way a beautiful proponent of many of the positive aspects of the Torah.

He was not the Messiah

We got it. In your mind Jesus is a false prophet. He lied. (But He was a great rabbi)

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Jesus LIED but He was a "great rabbi"

But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven -- Jesus

 

[norwegen]

Same God. Different attitudes and perspectives among this God's worshipers.

The Israelites, mostly Judah, as the other 11 tribes had eventually faded into obscurity, made God out as some kind of justification for their bad behavior. Then, before Judah would fade into obscurity, one of theirs - Jesus - and his disciples portrayed God more accurately.

 

[kjw47]

We got it. In your mind Jesus is a false prophet. He lied. (But He was a great rabbi)

Jesus fulfilled over 300 OT prophecies about the Messiah, there is more to come.
How many rabbis cure blindness, raise the dead=0 --You are in error shocked Canadian.

 

[ding]

I understand that if I fail to forgive, I am asking God not to forgive me.

Sounds conditional. Right, Carl in Michigan ?

 

[ding]

Jesus LIED but He was a "great rabbi"

But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven -- Jesus

Matthew 7:21-23

There's more than one way to deny Christ. When actions do not match words, that is denying Christ. When what we do does not match what we say, it is what we do that tells Christ what we really believe. Talk is bullshit if you don't walk the talk.

 

[irosie91]

We got it. In your mind Jesus is a false prophet. He lied. (But He was a great rabbi)

nope---the NICEAN COUNCIL lied

 

[Carl in Michigan]

nope---the NICEAN COUNCIL lied

Nope. That's not the point, as usual. Shockedcanadian claims Jesus was a great rabbi
But shockedcanadian rejects the words of Jesus just as you do.

How many rabbis do you call "great" while also calling Him a false prophet

BTW, I'm about to put you back on ignore. You refuse to actually have a conversation

 

[ding]

nope---the NICEAN COUNCIL lied

So epic conspiracy?

 

[BreezeWood]

But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven -- Jesus

never spoken by jesus for themself ...

when that was jesus who refuted judaism's commandments - those that wrote the christian bible chose for themselves the same are who are denied the heavens similarly islam w/ the same commandments made up by the liar moses are equally disqualified. catechism religions of apartheid and denial.

 

[Hawkins]

Humans lack the ability to address and convey a truth. All ancient truths will inevitably turn into myths, and even modern humans are incapable of addressing a truth such as whether it's Biden or Trump won the 2020 election votes.

OT is for God to establish Israel as a carrier of message, in a harsh way. NT is for God to show what to be delievered to humans.

 

[irosie91]

Nope. That's not the point, as usual. Shockedcanadian claims Jesus was a great rabbi
But shockedcanadian rejects the words of Jesus just as you do.

I don't know the words of Jesus. I only know what it says in the NT----most of his words are simply stuff from the talmud----very much like those of HILLEL. He was clearly a HILLEL man----based on whatever seems credible in the NT