Zone1 There's more to Jesus' "turning over the tables" incident than people realize

God commanded animal sacrifice to atone for the sins of Israel. Of course, he didn't like it any more than a parent likes punishing their children. The Law, including animal sacrifices, was the 'schoolmaster' until it was replaced by the Holy Spirit.
nope-----animal sacrifice was compensation for the LEVITES AND PRIESTS --to wit, the
tribe of LEVI----for being designated as LANDLESS in the agrarian society. Even Levites
have to eat. Ask your local friendly Levite. Even Levites cannot eat "the holy spirit" aka
Shchinah. An interesting twist in the Jewish system re: the animal sacrifices is that unlike
the Roman and Greek system---the meat could not be sold. No matter what is taught
in Jelly-bean school----Animal sacrifice is NOT a source of wealth for the Tribe of Levi
 
The blood of the sacrifice was God's; the meat was sold in the public markets.
Jesus was sold as meat in the public market place? NOT KOSHER!!!!!
for many reasons. He did not chew cud or have cloven hoofs and WAS
NOT PROPERLY SACRIFICED. You are alluding to your own ancestral
customs-----the Greek and Roman.
 
nope-----animal sacrifice was compensation for the LEVITES AND PRIESTS --to wit, the
tribe of LEVI----for being designated as LANDLESS in the agrarian society. Even Levites
have to eat. Ask your local friendly Levite. Even Levites cannot eat "the holy spirit" aka
Shchinah. An interesting twist in the Jewish system re: the animal sacrifices is that unlike
the Roman and Greek system---the meat could not be sold. No matter what is taught
in Jelly-bean school----Animal sacrifice is NOT a source of wealth for the Tribe of Levi
True, the Levites at some of the meat of the sacrifices but lived mainly from the tithes. They also were given cities throughout Israel. They lived pretty good.
 
It says that word in the translations. The original word means violent ones.

Also... if you go back to the Jeremiah passage that Jesus was quoting in that NT verse, and read the entire chapter, (Jeremiah 7) the context gives more weight to the idea that Jesus was angry about more than just the moneychangers.

Here's a passage from the same chapter that Jesus quoted:

"For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. 23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’" (Jeremiah 7:21-23)​

I think it's clear that He wanted to bring and end to the entire sacrificial system, which (as I posted to you on another thread) God hated and it wasn't His idea in the first place.

If Jesus was merely angry about the moneychangers and nothing more, then He could have quoted an entirely different scripture. I believe that His quoting of that Jeremiah verse (vs.11) is significant.

Also... it seems to me that the intense level of passion and anger Jesus showed was about more than just selfish money practices. God created and loves the animals too. Again, animal sacrifice was not what God wanted in the first place, and I think Jesus wanted to put an end to it once and for all.

Btw, I didn't mention this on the other thread where we were talking about animal sacrifice... but if you look into it, the origin of animal sacrifice is demonic. In the Book of Enoch (which the Bible references and Jesus referred to as scripture) it mentions sacrifice as something the fallen angels taught mankind. Also, the Book of Enoch shows that the origin of flesh eating is also demonic. The Nephilim were the very first ones to start eating flesh, due to their ravenous appetites. That's where it all began.
Little lambs are so sweet and innocent. My Daddy said once, that He wanted to talk to God about sacrificing animals, and I thought, did you miss what He said to Job because that's where that discussion would lead.
"And just where were you, Chuck, when I was doing all this creating"?
Sweet and innocent is the description of Christ, the ultimate sacrifice...
 
Sacrificing inferior (diseased, crippled, blemished) animals was rife in Malachi's day and likely continued until Jesus' day.

wrong again----the blemishes you describe ALL render an animal NOT KOSHER.
It cannot be eaten either by the people or the Priests, Levites (landless tribe
of Levi) Even today they are NOT KOSHER. The issue which Malachi addresses is the
eating of NON KOSHER MEAT aka violation of KASHRUT
 
Little lambs are so sweet and innocent. My Daddy said once, that He wanted to talk to God about sacrificing animals, and I thought, did you miss what He said to Job because that's where that discussion would lead.
"And just where were you, Chuck, when I was doing all this creating"?
Sweet and innocent is the description of Christ, the ultimate sacrifice...
gee----so christians have given up New Zealand lamb on Easter?
 
When did Jews stop sacrificing animals?

Jews largely stopped practicing animal sacrifice with the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE. While there were brief periods when sacrifices were resumed during the Jewish War of 132-135 CE, this practice was ultimately abandoned. The destruction of the Temple marked a shift in Jewish practice, with the emerging rabbinic community emphasizing Torah study, prayer, and acts of loving-kindness as alternatives to sacrifice.
 
Did Christians practice animal sacrifice?

No, most Christian denominations do not practice animal sacrifice. They believe that Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross fulfilled the need for animal sacrifices, making them obsolete. This belief is rooted in the Epistle to the Hebrews, which states that Jesus is the "Lamb of God" and the final sacrifice.
 
wrong again----the blemishes you describe ALL render an animal NOT KOSHER.
It cannot be eaten either by the people or the Priests, Levites (landless tribe
of Levi) Even today they are NOT KOSHER. The issue which Malachi addresses is the
eating of NON KOSHER MEAT aka violation of KASHRUT
The narrative speaks for itself.
 
I think it's clear that He wanted to bring and end to the entire sacrificial system, which (as I posted to you on another thread) God hated and it wasn't His idea in the first place.

that is the heavens ...

Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me. This must be Isaac, your only son, the one you love. Use him ...

instead, the liar abraham murdered a lamb claiming latitude to kill as their own discretion. an innocent lamb.

what was expected would not have been to kill another but rather at the least defy the heavens and do nothing than initiate the subjective message they themself had made.

their response clearly is represented by jesus and the exploitation by judaism for a miscarriage of justice.
 
According to the writings in the "NT" ---the sinless, spotless MARY---
mother of Jesus----sacrificed a pigeon when she went to the Temple.

manufacturing their claim the heavenly exemplars were jewish than their true separation from judaism being the unique setting for the entire significance of the 1st century events, the repudiation of judaism.
 
True, the Levites at some of the meat of the sacrifices but lived mainly from the tithes. They also were given cities throughout Israel. They lived pretty good.
wrong again----the priests and levites and their families in JERUSALEM ate the meat of the sacrifices---all of it. It could not be sold. The priests and levites did not OWN cities---
there were cities in which they could live and own their own houses but they did not
have farm land. and actually did not really own the houses either----the land was the
possession of the TRIBE that owned that land----sorta like the priests and levites
had CONDOS and were supposed to be teachers scattered over the land. HOWEVER there
are always enterprising people who know how to get their bread buttered, to wit
THE SADDUCEES who knew the ART OF THE DEAL when dealing with Romans. So now
you know why the Pharisees hated the SADDUCEES. Herod was neither--he was an Edomite---
educated in Rome and not really eligible to be KING----but got the position from the Romans.
And then there was your all time FAVE HIGH PRIEST----Caiaphas---the SADDUCEAN HIGH
PRIEST, also despised by the Pharisees. ----for completion---Josephus was a Pharisee---uhm,
like John the mikveh man and Jesus
 
that is the heavens ...



instead, the liar abraham murdered a lamb claiming latitude to kill as their own discretion. an innocent lamb.

what was expected would not have been to kill another but rather at the least defy the heavens and do nothing than initiate the subjective message they themself had made.

their response clearly is represented by jesus and the exploitation by judaism for a miscarriage of justice.
Jesus had a lamb chop at DA LAST SUPPER
 
Actually, ham is the favored fare on Easter, which is fitting for a pagan holiday.

in my childhood town----the catholics ate LAMB----especially the Irish---a break
from corned beef and cabbage on St Paddy's day in celebration of the TAMANY HALL
DAYS
 
Little lambs are so sweet and innocent. My Daddy said once, that He wanted to talk to God about sacrificing animals, and I thought, did you miss what He said to Job because that's where that discussion would lead.
"And just where were you, Chuck, when I was doing all this creating"?
Sweet and innocent is the description of Christ, the ultimate sacrifice...

Again, it was a practice that was already taking place in many different cultures around the world. It was NOT God's idea in the first place. Again, if we look into the origin of animal sacrifice, it was the fallen angels who taught it to mankind, like they did with many other things that were never what God wanted (warfare, abortion, drugs, flesh eating, etc.)

So I think your Dad had the right idea, and I disagree that God would have responded in that same way He did with Job.

For the sake of people reading.... I'm going to copy/ paste that post from another thread we were on, regarding animal sacrifices. I'll have to do a search for it.

Here it is. I made a few changes to it, but it's mostly the same as the other thread:

Animal sacrifice was not God's idea. It was a practice that was already taken place in many parts of the world, and it has pagan origins. There is evidence that it originated in Egypt.

The Israelites, when they came out of Egypt, wanted to continue eating flesh. Remember that God gave them manna, but they complained and angered God? And I'm sure you remember the passage about how God gave them what they wanted, until it came out of their nostrils.... and then He struck them down with a severe plague and they died. The place where they died, Kibroth Hattaavah, literally means "The grave of craving."

Before I get to what you said, please read the following verses. Please don't skim over them, but really read them:


Psalm 40:6

Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.


Jeremiah 7:22-24

For I did not speak to your fathers or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’ Yet they did not obey or incline their ear, but followed the counsels and the dictates of their evil hearts, and went backward and not forward.


Hosea 6:6

For I desire mercy and not sacrifice,
And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.


Psalm 51:16-17

For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.


1 Samuel 15:22

But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.


Isaiah 1:11-17

“To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?”
Says the Lord.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats.

“When you come to appear before Me,
Who has required this from your hand,
To trample My courts?
Bring no more futile sacrifices;

Incense is an abomination to Me.

The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.

When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.

“Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes.
Cease to do evil,
Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.


Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O man, what is good;
And what does the Lord require of you
But to do justly,
To love mercy,
And to walk humbly with your God?


So as you can see, God wants MERCY, not sacrifice. Now getting to what you said, there are a couple different views on animal sacrifices, from a Christian vegan perspective.

One view is that since animal sacrifices were already taking place, but were being offered to false gods, God "met us where we're at" with the intent of weaning His people off of animal sacrifice. He did that in two parts. The first part was to stop people from offering sacrifices to false gods. And to set up specific rules about what was already taking place. (Similar to what was done with slavery...which is also not what God wanted in the first place.)

And the second part was to end animal sacrifice altogether, through the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus who offered Himself, as the spotless Lamb of God.

Jesus sacrifice was supposed to put an end to all animal sacrifice. But of course mankind is selfish and continues to do what they want to do.

Another view, which is much more controversial, is that as it states in Jeremiah the "lying scribes" changed and added to God's word, because they simply wanted to continue sacrificing animals. Not only because they wanted to eat flesh, but because the animal sacrifice system was hugely profitable.
 
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Jesus had a lamb chop at DA LAST SUPPER
Buttercup disagrees----just unleavend bread and wine? not much of a supper.
An interesting tidbit for Buttercup----there are people who actually manage to
cook up their own UNLEAVENED bread for passover---something like the
chappatis that Indians do---quickly so that the dough did not ferment..
Back in the day---in Jerusalem, people would join with other families on
passover in order to DO A LAMB which was supposed to be eaten entirely
THAT DAY (lack of Fridge) There were rentable rooms and sign up places
for the throngs of people.
 
wrong again----the priests and levites and their families in JERUSALEM ate the meat of the sacrifices---all of it. It could not be sold. The priests and levites did not OWN cities---
there were cities in which they could live and own their own houses but they did not
have farm land. and actually did not really own the houses either----the land was the
possession of the TRIBE that owned that land----sorta like the priests and levites
had CONDOS and were supposed to be teachers scattered over the land. HOWEVER there
are always enterprising people who know how to get their bread buttered, to wit
THE SADDUCEES who knew the ART OF THE DEAL when dealing with Romans. So now
you know why the Pharisees hated the SADDUCEES. Herod was neither--he was an Edomite---
educated in Rome and not really eligible to be KING----but got the position from the Romans.
And then there was your all time FAVE HIGH PRIEST----Caiaphas---the SADDUCEAN HIGH
PRIEST, also despised by the Pharisees. ----for completion---Josephus was a Pharisee---uhm,
like John the mikveh man and Jesus
I defer to the actual narrative.
 
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