So you think oil and gas are up because of those evil speculators?

[expat_panama]

The value of the dollar relative to other currencies and commodities isn't the problem.

The international price of oil is up as speculators bid up the price.

Inflation will be the problem however, when/if the dollar falls against other currencies.

Wow, I never thought I'd ever find anyone in the universe that agreed with me on those points. We agree that a falling dollar isn't the problem, that inflation is not now the problem, and that inflation won't be affected by the dollar. Seems you and I are in a very small select group on those points.

The idea that oil prices are up because of speculator's bids is like saying oil prices are up because the numbers used for prices are bigger. Please tell me what your take is as to why speculators are raising their bid prices. Also, when we say 'speculators', we're talking about commodity option/future traders right?

 

[editec]

Think again. Well I was looking at the price of silver ad gold I also notice oil and here's what I noticed.
112.85 a barrel


Change due to Weakening of USD
+0.12 +0.11%

Now here's the tell tell story
Change due to Normal Trading

-0.13 -0.12%

Meaning oil would not be at this price if we did not have a weaken dollar Not much sales for oil it seems. Now who's at fault for the weaken dollar? The FED maybe?





Gold, USD, Price gold, Silver, US Dollar, Oil, Platinum - Kitco KGX

QE1 and QE2 (quantitative easing, look it up if you dont know what it is) devalued our dollar.

Which is reflected in the relative exchange rates of other nations.

The printing of money under the direction of Tim Geitner, per the president's desire, has also weakend the dollar.

Monor correction...the printing of money per BOTH RECENT PRESIDENTS direction, has weaked the dollar.

Odd that you so clearly note the problem when O does it, but didn't know that that policy started under BUSH II, isn't it?

Oil is bought in dollars.....if the dollar is weaker that means oil will cost more dollars to buy....same with gold/silver.

True...and the weakened dollar is ALSO reflected in the exchange rates.

But the dollar has NOT lost 50% of its purchasing power in the last few years, has it?

No.

But the price of oil has gone up about 100%, has it not?

You see, there IS more than one factor causing the problem.

A weak dollar?, yes.

But more, much more, the current speculation in the market is causing this rise in oil prices.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

...oil would not be at this price if we did not have a weaken dollar Not much sales for oil it seems. Now who's at fault for the weaken dollar? The FED maybe?...

Sounds like you're saying that the rise in oil prices is caused by falling dollar exchange rates, and that's caused by the Fed.

In the first place exchange rates don't affect oil prices. OK, I know everyone says they do and it makes sense that they would but I'm not talking about what makes sense or what people say. I'm talking about what is. These are the oil prices, and these are the exchange rates. Sometimes they go up and down together and sometimes they go in opposite directions.

In the second place the Fed's mission is stable prices and stable banks. OK, they're supposed to worry about employment too somehow, but they don't do exchange rates which are handled by the free market.

I'm not saying the experts are saying it. a weak dollar means higher oil prices.

From my first source

When the US Dollar gets stronger, it takes fewer dollars to buy any commodity that is priced in $USD. When the US Dollar gets weaker it takes more dollars to purchase the same commodity.

The price of all US Dollar denominated commodities, like gold, will change to reflect the fact that it will take fewer or more dollars to buy that commodity. So it’s quite possible, in fact it’s almost always the case that a portion of the change in the price of gold is really just a reflection of a change in the value of the US Dollar. Sometimes that portion is insignificant. But often the opposite is true where the entire change in the gold price is simply a mathematical recalculation of an ever-changing US Dollar value.

When the dollar gets strong, gold appears to go down, and vice versa. That accounts for part of the fluctuations that we see in the value of gold.

The other part is an actual increase in the supply or demand for gold. If the price is higher when being measured not only in US Dollars, but also in Euros, Pounds Sterling, Japanese Yen, and every other major currency, then we know the gold demand is higher and it has actually increased in value.

Consequently, if gold is higher in US Dollars while at the same time cheaper in every other currency, then we can conclude that the US Dollar has weakened, and that gold has actually lost value in all other currencies. But the price, because it is being quoted in $USD will be higher and give the illusion of gold becoming more valuable. In such a case the devaluation of gold, due to increased supply on the market, is camouflaged by a weakened US Dollar.

Our feature on kitco.com breaks the change of the price of gold into 2 components. One part shows you how much of that change can be attributed to US Dollar strength, or lack of it. The other portion is indicative of how much the price changed as a result of normal trading. Interestingly whatever changes happen to the price of gold as a result of US Dollar strength/weakness also occurs to every other US Dollar denominated commodity by the exact same proportion.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Think again. Well I was looking at the price of silver ad gold I also notice oil and here's what I noticed.
112.85 a barrel


Change due to Weakening of USD
+0.12 +0.11%

Now here's the tell tell story
Change due to Normal Trading

-0.13 -0.12%

Meaning oil would not be at this price if we did not have a weaken dollar Not much sales for oil it seems. Now who's at fault for the weaken dollar? The FED maybe?





Gold, USD, Price gold, Silver, US Dollar, Oil, Platinum - Kitco KGX

QE1 and QE2 (quantitative easing, look it up if you dont know what it is) devalued our dollar.

The printing of money under the direction of Tim Geitner, per the president's desire, has also weakend the dollar.

Oil is bought in dollars.....if the dollar is weaker that means oil will cost more dollars to buy....same with gold/silver.

Agreed

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Were I the CEO of BP..... I would order a marketing campaign that cuts the price of gasoline by a dollar at all outlets, with the slogan, "Helping you get your life back." I would start, and win, a price war and in the process fix our image and our name with the public.

Wal-Mart also has the power to do something like this, they are not.

The total lack of competition between gasoline suppliers is one of the big problems, almost like there's collusion. Even in the "oil shortage" of the 70s, we had price wars. As gasoline approached $1.00 a gallon in the 90s, we had price wars. Where's the price wars now?

Collusion? Price fixing? And to what end?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Were I the CEO of BP..... I would order a marketing campaign that cuts the price of gasoline by a dollar at all outlets, with the slogan, "Helping you get your life back." I would start, and win, a price war and in the process fix our image and our name with the public.

Wal-Mart also has the power to do something like this, they are not.

The total lack of competition between gasoline suppliers is one of the big problems, almost like there's collusion. Even in the "oil shortage" of the 70s, we had price wars. As gasoline approached $1.00 a gallon in the 90s, we had price wars. Where's the price wars now?

Collusion? Price fixing? And to what end?

oh how I miss those 35 cent per gallon days.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Did gold really go up 0.30? No. It actually went down -3.40 in real terms, but US Dollar weakness makes it appear to have gone the other way.

Gold price Change due to Weakening of USD+3.70
Gold price Change due to Predominant Sellers -3.40
Gold Price: Total Change+0.30

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Were I the CEO of BP..... I would order a marketing campaign that cuts the price of gasoline by a dollar at all outlets, with the slogan, "Helping you get your life back." I would start, and win, a price war and in the process fix our image and our name with the public.

Wal-Mart also has the power to do something like this, they are not.

The total lack of competition between gasoline suppliers is one of the big problems, almost like there's collusion. Even in the "oil shortage" of the 70s, we had price wars. As gasoline approached $1.00 a gallon in the 90s, we had price wars. Where's the price wars now?

Collusion? Price fixing? And to what end?

You ever see the movie "Mr. Mom"?

"Schooner Tuna, lowering our prices in these tough times until you get back on your feet"

 

[dilloduck]

Gotcha----speculators looking for a tidy profit ( gamblers ) have nothing to do with the rising price of gas.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Gotcha----speculators looking for a tidy profit ( gamblers ) have nothing to do with the rising price of gas.

the answer is provided from sources in this thread.

 

[expat_panama]

...I'm talking about what is. These are the oil prices, and these are the exchange rates. Sometimes they go up and down together and sometimes they go in opposite directions....

I'm not saying the experts are saying it. a weak dollar means higher oil prices.

From my first source

When the US Dollar gets stronger, it takes fewer dollars to buy...

It's good we agree that what experts say isn't important. Too bad we don't agree that our thoughts of how things should be are not as important as how things really are. Exchange rates have never affected oil prices, and you're explaining why it shouldn't be that way. I like explaining why things are as we see them.

Reminds me of the classic conflict between the old Greek philosopher choosing his powers of reason over the scientist's powers to observe experimental results.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

...I'm talking about what is. These are the oil prices, and these are the exchange rates. Sometimes they go up and down together and sometimes they go in opposite directions....

I'm not saying the experts are saying it. a weak dollar means higher oil prices.

From my first source

When the US Dollar gets stronger, it takes fewer dollars to buy...

It's good we agree that what experts say isn't important. Too bad we don't agree that our thoughts of how things should be are not as important as how things really are. Exchange rates have never affected oil prices, and you're explaining why it shouldn't be that way. I like explaining why things are as we see them.

Reminds me of the classic conflict between the old Greek philosopher choosing his powers of reason over the scientist's powers to observe experimental results.

It's a historical fact when the dollar loses it value oil, gold, silver, and any commodities go up in price. When the dollar gains some strength the prices fall

 

[expat_panama]

...It's a historical fact when the dollar loses it value oil, gold, silver, and any commodities go up in price. When the dollar gains some strength the prices fall

Let's get together on what "historical fact" means.

If we use actual price records from say, commodities and foreign exchange markets, then there's there's no correlation. If we imagine that the link exists and we just say so, then there's no problem.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

...It's a historical fact when the dollar loses it value oil, gold, silver, and any commodities go up in price. When the dollar gains some strength the prices fall

Let's get together on what "historical fact" means.

If we use actual price records from say, commodities and foreign exchange markets, then there's there's no correlation. If we imagine that the link exists and we just say so, then there's no problem.

Historical fact when the dollar loses it's value oil prices go up when the dollar's value strengthens oil prices go down look at the first link I posted.

 

[Big Fitz]

Think again. Well I was looking at the price of silver ad gold I also notice oil and here's what I noticed.
112.85 a barrel


Change due to Weakening of USD
+0.12 +0.11%

Now here's the tell tell story
Change due to Normal Trading

-0.13 -0.12%

Meaning oil would not be at this price if we did not have a weaken dollar Not much sales for oil it seems. Now who's at fault for the weaken dollar? The FED maybe?





Gold, USD, Price gold, Silver, US Dollar, Oil, Platinum - Kitco KGX

There are three things forcing the oil prices up. In order of importance.

1. Weak dollar fiscal policy by the Fed.

This is Ben Bernanke's fault using the printing press to finance our debt. If we do not correct this policy to a strong dollar policy, instead of pretending to be helping our exports, we will hit hyper inflation faster than you can say Weimar Republic. Since oil is tied to the dollar, this will keep rising as the dollar weakens.

2. No domestic energy production goals by the Administration.

Decreased supply by blocking petroleum (oil, nat. gas, coal) production in the US and it's territorial waters is causing prices to both rise, and weaken the US position in having any control on it. All for the scam of global warming to usher in global fascism. DOn't forget P-BO's desire for 8 dollar a gallon gas and bankrupting the coal industry.

3. Oil speculators (correctly) guessing that oil supplies will shrink and the price rising.

This is the equivalent of "Obvious price rise is obvious". Reduce the supply and weaken the dollar, and then ask an investor it prices will rise? The answer is blatantly obvious. This is the LEAST of the price raisers. Bush already proved how powerful even SAYING, let alone doing, a policy of increasing domestic supply collapses the price. OPEC gets crazy scared and immediately starts overproducing so they can prevent any fledgling American energy industry from surviving.

But till you shut down the green fascists preaching the lie of global warming to prevent petroleum from being used, and tell the NIMBY Nincompoops to shut the **** up, OPEC has little to worry about.

 

[xotoxi]

No I think it's up because of a weak dollar causing inflation.

Play along
Now who is weakening the dollar?

Obama?

It must be him since this thread was started by you.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No I think it's up because of a weak dollar causing inflation.

Play along
Now who is weakening the dollar?

Obama?

It must be him since this thread was started by you.

What are the factors that would cause the devalue of the dollar?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Think again. Well I was looking at the price of silver ad gold I also notice oil and here's what I noticed.
112.85 a barrel


Change due to Weakening of USD
+0.12 +0.11%

Now here's the tell tell story
Change due to Normal Trading

-0.13 -0.12%

Meaning oil would not be at this price if we did not have a weaken dollar Not much sales for oil it seems. Now who's at fault for the weaken dollar? The FED maybe?





Gold, USD, Price gold, Silver, US Dollar, Oil, Platinum - Kitco KGX

There are three things forcing the oil prices up. In order of importance.

1. Weak dollar fiscal policy by the Fed.

This is Ben Bernanke's fault using the printing press to finance our debt. If we do not correct this policy to a strong dollar policy, instead of pretending to be helping our exports, we will hit hyper inflation faster than you can say Weimar Republic. Since oil is tied to the dollar, this will keep rising as the dollar weakens.

2. No domestic energy production goals by the Administration.

Decreased supply by blocking petroleum (oil, nat. gas, coal) production in the US and it's territorial waters is causing prices to both rise, and weaken the US position in having any control on it. All for the scam of global warming to usher in global fascism. DOn't forget P-BO's desire for 8 dollar a gallon gas and bankrupting the coal industry.

3. Oil speculators (correctly) guessing that oil supplies will shrink and the price rising.

This is the equivalent of "Obvious price rise is obvious". Reduce the supply and weaken the dollar, and then ask an investor it prices will rise? The answer is blatantly obvious. This is the LEAST of the price raisers. Bush already proved how powerful even SAYING, let alone doing, a policy of increasing domestic supply collapses the price. OPEC gets crazy scared and immediately starts overproducing so they can prevent any fledgling American energy industry from surviving.

But till you shut down the green fascists preaching the lie of global warming to prevent petroleum from being used, and tell the NIMBY Nincompoops to shut the **** up, OPEC has little to worry about.

Another one that ha it.

 

[dilloduck]

Gotcha----speculators looking for a tidy profit ( gamblers ) have nothing to do with the rising price of gas.

the answer is provided from sources in this thread.

Whose pocket does the profit made by speculators come out of ?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Gotcha----speculators looking for a tidy profit ( gamblers ) have nothing to do with the rising price of gas.

the answer is provided from sources in this thread.

Whose pocket does the profit made by speculators come out of ?

speculating does not cause the dollar to be devalued, when the dollar is devalued it takes more to purchase a comodity like oil.