So, the Declaration of “Independence” was for whites only...

It must be great to be so self righteous as to pass judgement on those who lived over 240 years before you. Very few people of this generation have the mental and physical fortitude, not less raw courage to withstand the hardships of that period and yet they view their personal opinions as superior?
 
Retired GYSGT- And yet the men were educated??

The founders were wealthy white men.
Yes they were because at that time in History VERY few women ANYWHERE had any power.

Very few men as well if they weren't wealthy and raised in a wealthy family. The all men are equal should of same SOME men are equal. So stand by your man still existed for what 175 years!!
Thousands of white men died fighting to free the slaves. What did you do?
 
Well, historically, yes...it was for whites. White males. There was no Independence freedom for black slaves. Blacks have fought for and helped build this country. What a stupid thread Given how violently black rebellions were squashed and how often treaties with native Americans were broken, and they were slaughtered and subjugated under superior military force...Manifest Destiny.

It is all part of our national heritage: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Can’t change history.


All of that is true. But what you and others on the left always fail to mention is those wrongs were for the most part corrected. 500,000 men died (mostly white) to free the slaves. Millions of whites marched and supported the civil rights movement. Without white support it never would have happened. Women got the vote, mostly because of efforts by white women to make it happen.

WE have always strived to be a more perfect Union. WE have a come a long way. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that?

I agree, we have, and I acknowledge that. But I think it is important to also acknowledge we have a ways to go still, particularly in providing an honest history.

For example...women got the vote mostly through the efforts of white women...

Where were the black women? They were there...often marginalized...fighting on two fronts...but our historical narratives omit them Or relegate them to a foot note.
Women lobbied for it yes but the amendment passed because of WHITE MEN. You know the group you claim is evil and bad. As for moving forward we have moved a VERY long way and you denigrate that every time you IGNORE the fact that WHITE people are the reason we moved forward. If you are white I feel sorry for your hatred of self but get over it. At this point in time WHITES still make up 70 percent of the population. NOTHING gets done with out them. EVERY major piece of legislation that passes is passed and voted on BY a majority WHITE Country. EVERY advancement is because whites support it and vote for it. Every amendment ever passed was passed because whites voted for it.

Sure in the past there were bad things done and bad laws. But overall it has been an advancement in culture and society because of WHITES. The group you claim is the root of all evil, the group you claim had all the power over blacks forever.

Making excuses for under preformance by a group does NOT help them, it does not lift them up, it does not teach them to do better. Blacks in this Country made strides and made themselves heard and got their rights by hard work, UNTIL the 60's when democrats returned black communities to a form of slavery. Before 65 the Black family was strong independent and thriving, after 65 it went down hill in the cities. Thanks to DEMOCRATIC POLICIES. Now what are blacks known for? Not a family that is strong vibrant and successful. They are known as violent thugs and murderous killers run by gangs in the cities.

Is that fair? Not to the MAJORITY of blacks that commit no crime and kill no one. Not to the small but successful family UNITS that don't have 15 fathers for every kid and no father in the actual house. And why is it like that? BECAUSE of Democratic policies and Democratic politicians aided and abetted by blacks that play the game of race hustling.

You want to uplift blacks? Stop telling them they need a white politician to make decisions for them, stop abortion millions of black babies, stop encouraging fatherless families with welfare and dependence on the Government. Tell the race hustling blacks that don't give a rats ass about their race to go away.

In the end blacks have to take charge of their own affairs and stop being talked down to and treated like they need whitey to get ahead. And Marxism is NOT the answer, violent confrontations with whites and society is NOT the answer. BLM is a problem not a solution. And every liberal that makes excuses for black crime black poverty and lawlessness and failure in school is the PROBLEM not the solution.
 
Well, historically, yes...it was for whites. White males. There was no Independence freedom for black slaves. Blacks have fought for and helped build this country. What a stupid thread Given how violently black rebellions were squashed and how often treaties with native Americans were broken, and they were slaughtered and subjugated under superior military force...Manifest Destiny.

It is all part of our national heritage: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Can’t change history.


All of that is true. But what you and others on the left always fail to mention is those wrongs were for the most part corrected. 500,000 men died (mostly white) to free the slaves. Millions of whites marched and supported the civil rights movement. Without white support it never would have happened. Women got the vote, mostly because of efforts by white women to make it happen.

WE have always strived to be a more perfect Union. WE have a come a long way. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that?

I agree, we have, and I acknowledge that. But I think it is important to also acknowledge we have a ways to go still, particularly in providing an honest history.

For example...women got the vote mostly through the efforts of white women...

Where were the black women? They were there...often marginalized...fighting on two fronts...but our historical narratives omit them Or relegate them to a foot note.

Do you think democrats are going to accept the constitution as invalid because the founders were white? It is in the press constantly, and seems to be gaining momentum. I'm grateful you are willing to discuss it.
 
This is the argument of the radical left, wanting to tear down every symbol and statue of the Founding Fathers and of our Independence. That, as CNN puts it, the Declaration of “Independence” (they put that in quotes now), didn’t apply to blacks or natives.

My question to you America hating BLM types is, why should had the white people from Europe built a free nation for Africans? Or for the Natives? Or for the Chinese for that matter? Most of the people in the colonies considered themselves English in heritage, if not nationality. They were after all building and expanding colonies for the British and the crown. They had their rights as citizens diminished and stripped, that’s all they really wanted at first, was their rights back and representation. People who weren’t ever British citizens to begin with, probably didn’t care much.

It’s stupid to think that these people of English and European descent would fight to make a free nation for Natives, Africans, or anyone else but themselves. A people and culture are defined by their language, values, and religion. It’s funny how BLM types like morons on this board feel that Africans were entitled to the benefits of these white people fighting a war for independence. Why couldn’t the Africans build their own free nation somewhere? Oh I know, they couldn’t build ships to sail to the Western Hemisphere to start any colonies. But they had the whole continent of Africa to make a new nation.

I find it interesting that the BLM idiots here think that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and every other early leader of our nation, should had been the White Saviors for Africans and Native peoples. Were the Natives and Africans too stupid to make their own free nation? They certainly had the numbers and the resources. So which is it, my BLM friends? Did blacks and natives need the white man to give them rights and freedom? Were they too stupid to accomplish this on their own? Why is it the white man’s responsibility to provide these things to “people of color”? Even today, the majority of blacks keep trusting in their white liberal savior, and they still remain the poorest, least educated, most violent group in America.
Read the naturalization acts of the 1790's yes America was intended for free white people
 
Well, historically, yes...it was for whites. White males. There was no Independence freedom for black slaves. Blacks have fought for and helped build this country. What a stupid thread Given how violently black rebellions were squashed and how often treaties with native Americans were broken, and they were slaughtered and subjugated under superior military force...Manifest Destiny.

It is all part of our national heritage: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Can’t change history.


All of that is true. But what you and others on the left always fail to mention is those wrongs were for the most part corrected. 500,000 men died (mostly white) to free the slaves. Millions of whites marched and supported the civil rights movement. Without white support it never would have happened. Women got the vote, mostly because of efforts by white women to make it happen.

WE have always strived to be a more perfect Union. WE have a come a long way. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that?

I agree, we have, and I acknowledge that. But I think it is important to also acknowledge we have a ways to go still, particularly in providing an honest history.

For example...women got the vote mostly through the efforts of white women...

Where were the black women? They were there...often marginalized...fighting on two fronts...but our historical narratives omit them Or relegate them to a foot note.

Do you think democrats are going to accept the constitution as invalid because the founders were white? It is in the press constantly, and seems to be gaining momentum. I'm grateful you are willing to discuss it.

No. Nor have I read any serious suggestion of such.
 
Actually the Declaration was wrote for wealthy white men, and no one else. They treated women like crap, along with the poor, blacks and Native Americans. Same with the Constitution.
The USA has led the world in granting freedom and liberty. Thousands of white men died to free black people. White men supported granting the women's vote. You're biased.
Some...but clearly not enough
What do you mean "not enough?"

Do you have the right to vote or not? That would, by definition, be ENOUGH.
Should have had it at the beginning.
LOL NAME ONE NATION in 1776 and 1787 that allowed women to vote universally.
These IDIOTS are too ignorant to realize that back in 1776 it was a radical idea to NOT have a monarchy and to choose to have a democratic republic. It was the first step in building a totally free nation. Of course the founding fathers knew that slavery would have to be dealt with eventually.
Yup. I agree.

But the abolitionists gave in...and Abigail Adams plea to her husband to “remember the ladies” was ignored.

I long to hear that you have declared an independency -- and by the way in the new Code of Laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make I desire you would Remember the Ladies, and be more generous and favourable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the Husbands. Remember all Men would be tyrants if they could. If perticuliar care and attention is not paid to the Laidies we are determined to foment a Rebelion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any Laws in which we have no voice, or Representation.
Most women did not want the right to vote. When women starting protesting for voting rights, the majority of women opposed it.

It’s funny how today women have “equal rights”, yet are exempt from registering in the Selective Service or being drafted. Women actually have more rights than men now.
How do you know that? Based on what?
Because I know history? You should try reading history books, not your Marxist approved only ones though.

So do I. I don’t depend on talk radio for historical knowledge.
 
Actually the Declaration was wrote for wealthy white men, and no one else. They treated women like crap, along with the poor, blacks and Native Americans. Same with the Constitution.
The USA has led the world in granting freedom and liberty. Thousands of white men died to free black people. White men supported granting the women's vote. You're biased.
Some...but clearly not enough
What do you mean "not enough?"

Do you have the right to vote or not? That would, by definition, be ENOUGH.
Should have had it at the beginning.
LOL NAME ONE NATION in 1776 and 1787 that allowed women to vote universally.
These IDIOTS are too ignorant to realize that back in 1776 it was a radical idea to NOT have a monarchy and to choose to have a democratic republic. It was the first step in building a totally free nation. Of course the founding fathers knew that slavery would have to be dealt with eventually.
Yup. I agree.

But the abolitionists gave in...and Abigail Adams plea to her husband to “remember the ladies” was ignored.

I long to hear that you have declared an independency -- and by the way in the new Code of Laws which I suppose it will be necessary for you to make I desire you would Remember the Ladies, and be more generous and favourable to them than your ancestors. Do not put such unlimited power into the hands of the Husbands. Remember all Men would be tyrants if they could. If perticuliar care and attention is not paid to the Laidies we are determined to foment a Rebelion, and will not hold ourselves bound by any Laws in which we have no voice, or Representation.
Most women did not want the right to vote. When women starting protesting for voting rights, the majority of women opposed it.

It’s funny how today women have “equal rights”, yet are exempt from registering in the Selective Service or being drafted. Women actually have more rights than men now.
How do you know that? Based on what?
Because I know history? You should try reading history books, not your Marxist approved only ones though.

So do I. I don’t depend on talk radio for historical knowledge.
He didn't say "talk radio". He said "history books". You have a reading comprehension problem. Did you graduate from high school?
 
In the early days of America, the colonist had no choice but to accept and unite with the slave lords in the south, or be destroyed by the British Empire.

Freedom around the world would have no chance of surviving if the early Americans did not unite. DOING SO CHANGED THE WORLD FOREVER!!!

They were faced with a really bad choice--- freedom for some, with the hope of freedom for all later, or freedom for no one, and the whole world stays in darkness.

I have seen Thomas Jefferson's writings on him. He grappled with that repeatedly. He grappled with the entire concept of slavery and how to rid us of it. There can be no question that he saw the African people as created equal. His deleted paragraph from the declaration of independence proves it.

Regarding collective responsibility, the problem with that concept is it puts the responsibility on those who had no part and no say. it removes the concept of free will and consequences of one's actions. It takes the responsibility off of those who are responsible and places it on those whose only responsibility is shared DNA.

Such a concept, when created as a matter of law, is directly contrary to individual liberty. It is, by definition, unjust.

So while I am not opposed to some finding some way of righting the wrongs of past generations, I see no clear way of doing so while remaining fair.

The best way for America to right the wrongs of the past is to repent.

Repent means to turn away. To change. To correct one's ways. To amend one's life.

Has America not repented?

When will America be forgiven?

When will WE THE CURRENT PEOPLE be forgiven for the sins of our ancestors?

Good post, and thanks.

I don’t think repent is right either as it only addresses actions going forward and does nothing to address the wrongs. Maybe both are needed.

Forgiveness would have to be asked of and given by the descendents of those wronged. A hard thing to do because I don’t think we, as a culture, assume a shared responsibility. We are too individualistic. Didn’t we do this with the survivors of Japanese interment?
Democrats should pay the reparations. They were the ones responsible
 
This is the argument of the radical left, wanting to tear down every symbol and statue of the Founding Fathers and of our Independence. That, as CNN puts it, the Declaration of “Independence” (they put that in quotes now), didn’t apply to blacks or natives.

My question to you America hating BLM types is, why should had the white people from Europe built a free nation for Africans? Or for the Natives? Or for the Chinese for that matter? Most of the people in the colonies considered themselves English in heritage, if not nationality. They were after all building and expanding colonies for the British and the crown. They had their rights as citizens diminished and stripped, that’s all they really wanted at first, was their rights back and representation. People who weren’t ever British citizens to begin with, probably didn’t care much.

It’s stupid to think that these people of English and European descent would fight to make a free nation for Natives, Africans, or anyone else but themselves. A people and culture are defined by their language, values, and religion. It’s funny how BLM types like morons on this board feel that Africans were entitled to the benefits of these white people fighting a war for independence. Why couldn’t the Africans build their own free nation somewhere? Oh I know, they couldn’t build ships to sail to the Western Hemisphere to start any colonies. But they had the whole continent of Africa to make a new nation.

I find it interesting that the BLM idiots here think that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and every other early leader of our nation, should had been the White Saviors for Africans and Native peoples. Were the Natives and Africans too stupid to make their own free nation? They certainly had the numbers and the resources. So which is it, my BLM friends? Did blacks and natives need the white man to give them rights and freedom? Were they too stupid to accomplish this on their own? Why is it the white man’s responsibility to provide these things to “people of color”? Even today, the majority of blacks keep trusting in their white liberal savior, and they still remain the poorest, least educated, most violent group in America.
Jefferson first draft of the document contained strong anti-slavery statement but it was removed. In 1776, Jefferson owned about 175 slaves. Opinion at the time was sharply divided as to the degree of humanity in slaves. Many people believe that slaves were not actually human but some higher order monkeys. Others believe they were human but did not possess intelligence, and other characteristic of humans. That led to question of whether slaves could actually be Christians. These ideas made it easier for slave owners to justify their acts and since the abolitionist movement was not very strong at the time, slavery was not a major issue.
 
Whatever is said against whites is said an an excuse to claim that this nation settled by whites has No right to exist. The founding documents are a sham and invalid. Your citizenship is invalid. The land that your home and business sits upon is land none have a right to sit upon. It is the intention of communist democrats and their dark housepets to make Americans landless and stateless. Then lifeless.

There can be no compromise with this as a political goal. This is where wars come from.
 
Well, historically, yes...it was for whites. White males. There was no Independence freedom for black slaves. Blacks have fought for and helped build this country. What a stupid thread Given how violently black rebellions were squashed and how often treaties with native Americans were broken, and they were slaughtered and subjugated under superior military force...Manifest Destiny.

It is all part of our national heritage: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Can’t change history.
..the Native Americans did the same shit --same thing AND they TORTURED as culture policy
So did European whites. Do you have a point?
And yet you only blame WHITES.
They had the power.
....stop the babbling double talk..the NAs AND Africans did the same shit as the US, on a lower scale--..you can't measure MURDER/torture/war/displacement/etc
 
Maybe if these so called enlightened revisionists would work and contribute to society they would have a better understanding as to how America became that beacon of light and opportunity that attracted so many immigrants from the cast systems of Europe and Asia. Sad to think these same people now are willing to embrace the same system our forefathers ran from.
when the light of opportunity is extinguished it will never be rekindled.
 
Taking an entire epic out of history and placing it into a future tense while using the same context is a fools game. People who do this are generally stupid and should be pitied.
 
No gratitude I fear :(
For the platitudes shared here:icon_sjung:
Those good old days are gone :sigh2:
Now shut up and mow the lawn :heehee:
 
This is the argument of the radical left, wanting to tear down every symbol and statue of the Founding Fathers and of our Independence. That, as CNN puts it, the Declaration of “Independence” (they put that in quotes now), didn’t apply to blacks or natives.

My question to you America hating BLM types is, why should had the white people from Europe built a free nation for Africans? Or for the Natives? Or for the Chinese for that matter? Most of the people in the colonies considered themselves English in heritage, if not nationality. They were after all building and expanding colonies for the British and the crown. They had their rights as citizens diminished and stripped, that’s all they really wanted at first, was their rights back and representation. People who weren’t ever British citizens to begin with, probably didn’t care much.

It’s stupid to think that these people of English and European descent would fight to make a free nation for Natives, Africans, or anyone else but themselves. A people and culture are defined by their language, values, and religion. It’s funny how BLM types like morons on this board feel that Africans were entitled to the benefits of these white people fighting a war for independence. Why couldn’t the Africans build their own free nation somewhere? Oh I know, they couldn’t build ships to sail to the Western Hemisphere to start any colonies. But they had the whole continent of Africa to make a new nation.

I find it interesting that the BLM idiots here think that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and every other early leader of our nation, should had been the White Saviors for Africans and Native peoples. Were the Natives and Africans too stupid to make their own free nation? They certainly had the numbers and the resources. So which is it, my BLM friends? Did blacks and natives need the white man to give them rights and freedom? Were they too stupid to accomplish this on their own? Why is it the white man’s responsibility to provide these things to “people of color”? Even today, the majority of blacks keep trusting in their white liberal savior, and they still remain the poorest, least educated, most violent group in America.
Like most Trump initiates, protesters destroying statues and monuments to the foundering fathers has been exaggerated and misrepresented. To say this is politically motivated in an understatement.

74 historical statues have been removed or are being removed by government or private or civic organizations in the US. Most them are not being destroyed but moved to other locations.
15 were damaged or removed by protesters.
Only 2 of the statues of the founders were removed or damaged, one of Thomas Jefferson which was not connected to the BLM protests and one of George Washington which was judged to be vandalism
It is estimated that there're over 20,000 historical statues, monuments and landmarks in the US. Most of these are on state, local, or private property, no federal.
 
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This is the argument of the radical left, wanting to tear down every symbol and statue of the Founding Fathers and of our Independence. That, as CNN puts it, the Declaration of “Independence” (they put that in quotes now), didn’t apply to blacks or natives.

My question to you America hating BLM types is, why should had the white people from Europe built a free nation for Africans? Or for the Natives? Or for the Chinese for that matter? Most of the people in the colonies considered themselves English in heritage, if not nationality. They were after all building and expanding colonies for the British and the crown. They had their rights as citizens diminished and stripped, that’s all they really wanted at first, was their rights back and representation. People who weren’t ever British citizens to begin with, probably didn’t care much.

It’s stupid to think that these people of English and European descent would fight to make a free nation for Natives, Africans, or anyone else but themselves. A people and culture are defined by their language, values, and religion. It’s funny how BLM types like morons on this board feel that Africans were entitled to the benefits of these white people fighting a war for independence. Why couldn’t the Africans build their own free nation somewhere? Oh I know, they couldn’t build ships to sail to the Western Hemisphere to start any colonies. But they had the whole continent of Africa to make a new nation.

I find it interesting that the BLM idiots here think that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and every other early leader of our nation, should had been the White Saviors for Africans and Native peoples. Were the Natives and Africans too stupid to make their own free nation? They certainly had the numbers and the resources. So which is it, my BLM friends? Did blacks and natives need the white man to give them rights and freedom? Were they too stupid to accomplish this on their own? Why is it the white man’s responsibility to provide these things to “people of color”? Even today, the majority of blacks keep trusting in their white liberal savior, and they still remain the poorest, least educated, most violent group in America.


Please note that the following is in italics and quotation marks. In other words, I did not say it. I'm quoting someone. Specifics to follow:

"The words 'people of the United States' and 'citizens' are synonymous terms, and mean the same thing. They both describe the political body who, according to our republican institutions, form the sovereignty, and who hold the power and conduct the Government through their representatives. They are what we familiarly call the 'sovereign people,' and every citizen is one of this people, and a constituent member of this sovereignty. The question before us is, whether the class of persons described in the plea in abatement compose a portion of this people, and are constituent members of this sovereignty? We think they are not, and that they are not included, and were not intended to be included, under the word 'citizens' in the Constitution, and can therefore claim none of the rights and privileges which that instrument provides for and secures to citizens of the United States. On the contrary, they were at that time considered as a subordinate and inferior class of beings, who had been subjugated by the dominant race, and, whether emancipated or not, yet remained subject to their authority, and had no rights or privileges but such as those who held the power and the Government might choose to grant them.

... It is not the province of the court to decide upon the justice or injustice, the policy or impolicy, of these laws. The decision of that question belonged to the political or law-making power; to those who formed the sovereignty and framed the Constitution. The duty of the court is, to interpret the instrument they have framed, with the best lights we can obtain on the subject, and to administer it as we find it, according to its true intent and meaning when it was adopted.


... It is true, every person, and every class and description of persons, who were at the time of the adoption of the Constitution recognised as citizens in the several States, became also citizens of this new political body; but none other; it was formed by them, and for them and their posterity, but for no one else. And the personal rights and privileges guarantied to citizens of this new sovereignty were intended to embrace those only who were then members of the several State communities, or who should afterwards by birthright or otherwise become members, according to the provisions of the Constitution and the principles on which it was founded.

... They (negroes) had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect; and that the negro might justly and lawfully be reduced to slavery for his benefit. He was bought and sold, and treated as an ordinary article of merchandise and traffic, whenever a profit could be made by it. This opinion was at that time fixed and universal in the civilized portion of the white race. It was regarded as an axiom in morals as well as in politics, which no one thought of disputing, or supposed to be open to dispute; and men in every grade and position in society daily and habitually acted upon it in their private pursuits, as well as in matters of public concern, without doubting for a moment the correctness of this opinion." (excerpts from Chief Justice Roger Haney in the 1857 Dred Scott v. Sanford decision)


Roger Taney was the first Roman Catholic nominated to the United States Supreme Court. He was nominated by a Democrat president via a majority led Democrat Senate.
 
mkh
I am certain that some but not all whites did impute such racism into the Declaration of Independence.

Some whites were indentured servants or slaves themselves, and some blacks had better or worse situations of employment than others. Not all blacks were slaves: some had good jobs and some were in business for themselves and hired other blacks. Some blacks might even have been thought to "own" other blacks as slaves.

At the beginning, blacks had some what more opportunities because the race was not yet firmly connected to slavery. That was a deliberate strategy of the southern landowners who innacted laws to that effect.
when you say southern landowners you mean democrats right???

This was long before the Dem party was founded. Learn some history.
You need to learn history.
 
mkh
I am certain that some but not all whites did impute such racism into the Declaration of Independence.

Some whites were indentured servants or slaves themselves, and some blacks had better or worse situations of employment than others. Not all blacks were slaves: some had good jobs and some were in business for themselves and hired other blacks. Some blacks might even have been thought to "own" other blacks as slaves.

At the beginning, blacks had some what more opportunities because the race was not yet firmly connected to slavery. That was a deliberate strategy of the southern landowners who innacted laws to that effect.
when you say southern landowners you mean democrats right???

This was long before the Dem party was founded. Learn some history.
You need to learn history.

POW!!! Right in the kisser.

Next up on some day the democrats suddenly became republicans...roflmao

Leftists are so fckn stupid
 

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