Post World War II Germany built statues of those who were imprisoned in concentration camps

[g5000]

I am not really a Trump supporter, ass wipe. And, I fly neither the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia nor do I fly the National Socialist Party flag, so go fuck yourself AGAIN.

It's good to know that you cocksucking ass licks DON'T want reconciliation with the South. It will make this MUCH easier.

Fuck off, bitch.

By the way, fool. I know you are not a Trump supporter. You support Jo Jorgensen. Unlike Trumptards, I actually have a good memory.

The flag post was not directed at you.

I would be a Libertarian, but I have common sense.

 

[g5000]

“We will listen to no terms but that of unconditional surrender.” - General Ulysses S. Grant

You confuse Grant's modus operandi in the Western Theatre with his considerably different m.o. in the Eastern Theatre after being made CiC.

The quote I posted is from Grant at Appomattox in his reply to Lee.

 

[BluesLegend]

Meanwhile it's total crickets on Democrat HERO and beloved party leader Robert Byrd...also an exalted cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan who filibustered the civil rights act and has over 50 monuments, bridges, dams that carry his name.

 

[g5000]

Southerners make a big deal about Lee, but Grant was a far superior tactician.

Defenders of Lee also say you can't fault him for joining the rebellion since he was from Virginia.

That's horseshit. He could have stayed home and not fought to preserve slavery.

I have very little sympathy or love for Lee.

 

[g5000]

Meanwhile it's total crickets on Democrat HERO and beloved party leader Robert Byrd...also an exalted cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan who filibustered the civil rights act and has over 50 monuments, bridges, dams that carry his name.

Yes, Robert Byrd was a far right conservative, just like all the other racist Democrats of the Old South.

And?

 

[g5000]

America First!

 

[BluesLegend]

Meanwhile it's total crickets on Democrat HERO and beloved party leader Robert Byrd...also an exalted cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan who filibustered the civil rights act and has over 50 monuments, bridges, dams that carry his name.

Yes, Robert Byrd was a far right conservative, just like all the other racist Democrats of the Old South.

And?

Byrd was a Democrat you lying hack DEMOCRAT often praised by Dem leaders.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Post World War II Germany built statues of those who were imprisoned in concentration camps.
The statues help tell the story of what happened in the concentration camps and helps make sure this chapter of their history is never repeated.
They did not build statues glorifying the soldiers and politicians of the time.

The US should learn from Germany.

Statues built based on lies to make a proud people The Germans feel guilt for trying to free their country from the grip of the Jew. Hopefully they get torn down

No way you are a real person. Nobody is this f##ked up for real.

Oh I am quite real.

Do you understand how f##ked up you are?

I know the truth about history, I can't help I hurt the feelings of the sheltered and brainwashed

So you know more than the thousands of historical scholars in the world

 

[Coyote]

At what point, is it going “too far“ when it comes to these memorials?

There are some facts to consider:

Many of those ”memorials” were mass produced long after war, and erected during times During times of racial tensions. They were erected with no discussion.

AHA Statement on Confederate Monuments | Perspectives on History | AHA

Understanding the specific historical context of Confederate monuments in America is imperative to informed public debate. Historians who specialize in this period have done careful and nuanced research to understand and explain this context. Drawing on their expertise enables us to assess the original intentions of those who erected the monuments, and how the monuments have functioned as symbols over time. The bulk of the monument building took place not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but from the close of the 19th century into the second decade of the 20th. Commemorating not just the Confederacy but also the “Redemption” of the South after Reconstruction, this enterprise was part and parcel of the initiation of legally mandated segregation and widespread disenfranchisement across the South. Memorials to the Confederacy were intended, in part, to obscure the terrorism required to overthrow Reconstruction, and to intimidate African Americans politically and isolate them from the mainstream of public life. A reprise of commemoration during the mid-20th century coincided with the Civil Rights Movement and included a wave of renaming and the popularization of the Confederate flag as a political symbol. Events in Charlottesville and elsewhere indicate that these symbols of white supremacy are still being invoked for similar purposes.

Monuments were erected in states that played no part in the war or did even exist in the war.

Given this background, why are we fighting to retain them, when they, as intended, function as a reminder of enslavement, segregation, and loss to a siginfo ant proportion of American citizenry?

These aren’t monuments on historical sites and battlefields.

 

[ElmerMudd]

The most important parts of Chamberlain's memoir, and the point of honoring the actual fighting men of the Confederacy (monuments/statues/etc.) are this:

"Bayonets were affixed to muskets, arms stacked, and cartridge boxes unslung and hung upon the stacks. Then, slowly and with a reluctance that was appealingly pathetic, the torn and tattered battleflags were either leaned against the stacks or laid upon the ground. The emotion of the conquered soldiery was really sad to witness. Some of the men who had carried and followed those ragged standards through the four long years of strife, rushed, regardless of all discipline, from the ranks, bent about their old flags, and pressed them to their lips with burning tears.

"And it can well be imagined, too, that there was no lack of emotion on our side, but the Union men were held steady in their lines, without the least show of demonstration by word or by motion. There was, though, a twitching of the muscles of their faces, and, be it said, their battle-bronzed cheeks were not altogether dry. Our men felt the import of the occasion, and realized fully how they would have been affected if defeat and surrender had been their lot after such a fearful struggle.

And the part about them co-mingling and becoming countrymen again.

You can't strip Southerners of their heritage and expect them to continue to have a sense of belonging to the U.S. It's done deliberately, SPECIFICALLY to invite discord and a desire to break up the Union, AGAIN.

When the Nazis were defeated, the Germans who disassociated with Nazi philosophy have been accepted by the new Germans and the world. It is the same with the confederates. The individuals are accepted if they renounce the confederacy. If they continue to believe the principles of the confederacy they are more than racists, they are traitors to the USA.

We do not have statues of English soldiers who fought us in the revolutionary war. There are many families in the US that are related to the English soldiers or supported the English in the revolution.
You fight our country and lose, do not expect statues.

I think this is a really bad example. There was reconciliation after the civil war. There was none of that in Germany. Luckily there was here.

After the confederate states were defeated there was reconciliation.
But the confederacy lost and lost big time. The flag represents a bunch of losers. I see a confederate flag, I say oh that person identifies the with the confederacy he must be a loser. A person who want to identify with losers, the confederacy.
NASCAR is made up of winners. Why have a bunch of loser yahoos waving the flag of big fat losers.

And why in the hell would you want a statue of the leader of a bunch of losers.
It is crazy!

 

[ElmerMudd]

Meanwhile it's total crickets on Democrat HERO and beloved party leader Robert Byrd...also an exalted cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan who filibustered the civil rights act and has over 50 monuments, bridges, dams that carry his name.

Yes, Robert Byrd was a far right conservative, just like all the other racist Democrats of the Old South.

And?

Byrd was a Democrat you lying hack DEMOCRAT often praised by Dem leaders.

Democrat or Republican, it does not matter why build statues to losers, why wave the flag of losers.

The people who want to build statues of losers want to celebrate losing.

They are losers.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

The most important parts of Chamberlain's memoir, and the point of honoring the actual fighting men of the Confederacy (monuments/statues/etc.) are this:

"Bayonets were affixed to muskets, arms stacked, and cartridge boxes unslung and hung upon the stacks. Then, slowly and with a reluctance that was appealingly pathetic, the torn and tattered battleflags were either leaned against the stacks or laid upon the ground. The emotion of the conquered soldiery was really sad to witness. Some of the men who had carried and followed those ragged standards through the four long years of strife, rushed, regardless of all discipline, from the ranks, bent about their old flags, and pressed them to their lips with burning tears.

"And it can well be imagined, too, that there was no lack of emotion on our side, but the Union men were held steady in their lines, without the least show of demonstration by word or by motion. There was, though, a twitching of the muscles of their faces, and, be it said, their battle-bronzed cheeks were not altogether dry. Our men felt the import of the occasion, and realized fully how they would have been affected if defeat and surrender had been their lot after such a fearful struggle.

And the part about them co-mingling and becoming countrymen again.

You can't strip Southerners of their heritage and expect them to continue to have a sense of belonging to the U.S. It's done deliberately, SPECIFICALLY to invite discord and a desire to break up the Union, AGAIN.

When the Nazis were defeated, the Germans who disassociated with Nazi philosophy have been accepted by the new Germans and the world. It is the same with the confederates. The individuals are accepted if they renounce the confederacy. If they continue to believe the principles of the confederacy they are more than racists, they are traitors to the USA.

We do not have statues of English soldiers who fought us in the revolutionary war. There are many families in the US that are related to the English soldiers or supported the English in the revolution.
You fight our country and lose, do not expect statues.

I think this is a really bad example. There was reconciliation after the civil war. There was none of that in Germany. Luckily there was here.

After the confederate states were defeated there was reconciliation.
But the confederacy lost and lost big time. The flag represents a bunch of losers. I see a confederate flag, I say oh that person identifies the with the confederacy he must be a loser. A person who want to identify with losers, the confederacy.
NASCAR is made up of winners. Why have a bunch of loser yahoos waving the flag of big fat losers.

And why in the hell would you want a statue of the leader of a bunch of losers.
It is crazy!

Because it’s not associated with losing these days it’s associated with pride in your heritage.

Let me ask you this. During soccer season we see a lot of Mexican flags. Do you consider those flags flown by people who escaped to the US as a symbol of them having pride in their heritage or wanting the US to be like Mexico?

In your multi cultural world. Can you explain why people flying Mexican flags are more American than those flying a rebel flag? Can you explain why you would support one over the other?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Meanwhile it's total crickets on Democrat HERO and beloved party leader Robert Byrd...also an exalted cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan who filibustered the civil rights act and has over 50 monuments, bridges, dams that carry his name.

Yes, Robert Byrd was a far right conservative, just like all the other racist Democrats of the Old South.

And?

Byrd was a Democrat you lying hack DEMOCRAT often praised by Dem leaders.

Democrat or Republican, it does not matter why build statues to losers, why wave the flag of losers.

The people who want to build statues of losers want to celebrate losing.

They are losers.

If that’s the case we should never see another nations flag flown within our borders. No pride if heritage should be allowed. Anywhere. If they came to the US it’s because their home nation are losers.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

At what point, is it going “too far“ when it comes to these memorials?

There are some facts to consider:

Many of those ”memorials” were mass produced long after war, and erected during times During times of racial tensions. They were erected with no discussion.

AHA Statement on Confederate Monuments | Perspectives on History | AHA

Understanding the specific historical context of Confederate monuments in America is imperative to informed public debate. Historians who specialize in this period have done careful and nuanced research to understand and explain this context. Drawing on their expertise enables us to assess the original intentions of those who erected the monuments, and how the monuments have functioned as symbols over time. The bulk of the monument building took place not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but from the close of the 19th century into the second decade of the 20th. Commemorating not just the Confederacy but also the “Redemption” of the South after Reconstruction, this enterprise was part and parcel of the initiation of legally mandated segregation and widespread disenfranchisement across the South. Memorials to the Confederacy were intended, in part, to obscure the terrorism required to overthrow Reconstruction, and to intimidate African Americans politically and isolate them from the mainstream of public life. A reprise of commemoration during the mid-20th century coincided with the Civil Rights Movement and included a wave of renaming and the popularization of the Confederate flag as a political symbol. Events in Charlottesville and elsewhere indicate that these symbols of white supremacy are still being invoked for similar purposes.

Monuments were erected in states that played no part in the war or did even exist in the war.

Given this background, why are we fighting to retain them, when they, as intended, function as a reminder of enslavement, segregation, and loss to a siginfo ant proportion of American citizenry?

These aren’t monuments on historical sites and battlefields.

Many were placed as the most of the veterans were dying off (around 1900-1915). Others were placed on or about the 100th Anniversary.

Hell, we JUST BARELY got a WWII war memorial in DC.

But don't let reality get in the way of a good narrative.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

After the confederate states were defeated there was reconciliation.

Was there? It sounds to me like you would like to revoke any pardons or reconciliation between the states. It sounds to me like you would like to undo reconstruction.

We haven't really reconciled, have we? The south is subjugated, right?

Keep up this narrative. This makes it sooooooo much easier to recruit people who will be willing to forcibly leave the union and take the land with us.

 

[Preacher]

Post World War II Germany built statues of those who were imprisoned in concentration camps.
The statues help tell the story of what happened in the concentration camps and helps make sure this chapter of their history is never repeated.
They did not build statues glorifying the soldiers and politicians of the time.

The US should learn from Germany.

Statues built based on lies to make a proud people The Germans feel guilt for trying to free their country from the grip of the Jew. Hopefully they get torn down

No way you are a real person. Nobody is this f##ked up for real.

Oh I am quite real.

Do you understand how f##ked up you are?

I know the truth about history, I can't help I hurt the feelings of the sheltered and brainwashed

So you know more than the thousands of historical scholars in the world

And yet you and a good chunk of society refuse to listen to ANYONE who has a different take on events and even governments try to censor and imprison those who DARE provide actual facts about the Holohoax.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Southerners make a big deal about Lee, but Grant was a far superior tactician.

Defenders of Lee also say you can't fault him for joining the rebellion since he was from Virginia.

That's horseshit. He could have stayed home and not fought to preserve slavery.

I have very little sympathy or love for Lee.

Yeah, we know you have no honor. We get it.

I hear you. You're a fucking asshole. You don't wish to have reconciliation between the states. You want to divide the states and have another Civil War.

We get it, you dumb fuck. You can shut the fuck up now.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Meanwhile it's total crickets on Democrat HERO and beloved party leader Robert Byrd...also an exalted cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan who filibustered the civil rights act and has over 50 monuments, bridges, dams that carry his name.

Yes, Robert Byrd was a far right conservative, just like all the other racist Democrats of the Old South.

And?

Byrd was a Democrat you lying hack DEMOCRAT often praised by Dem leaders.

Democrat or Republican, it does not matter why build statues to losers, why wave the flag of losers.

The people who want to build statues of losers want to celebrate losing.

They are losers.

If that’s the case we should never see another nations flag flown within our borders. No pride if heritage should be allowed. Anywhere. If they came to the US it’s because their home nation are losers.

A flag of a rebel group trying to break up our country is different than another country's flag

 

[Coyote]

At what point, is it going “too far“ when it comes to these memorials?

There are some facts to consider:

Many of those ”memorials” were mass produced long after war, and erected during times During times of racial tensions. They were erected with no discussion.

AHA Statement on Confederate Monuments | Perspectives on History | AHA

Understanding the specific historical context of Confederate monuments in America is imperative to informed public debate. Historians who specialize in this period have done careful and nuanced research to understand and explain this context. Drawing on their expertise enables us to assess the original intentions of those who erected the monuments, and how the monuments have functioned as symbols over time. The bulk of the monument building took place not in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War but from the close of the 19th century into the second decade of the 20th. Commemorating not just the Confederacy but also the “Redemption” of the South after Reconstruction, this enterprise was part and parcel of the initiation of legally mandated segregation and widespread disenfranchisement across the South. Memorials to the Confederacy were intended, in part, to obscure the terrorism required to overthrow Reconstruction, and to intimidate African Americans politically and isolate them from the mainstream of public life. A reprise of commemoration during the mid-20th century coincided with the Civil Rights Movement and included a wave of renaming and the popularization of the Confederate flag as a political symbol. Events in Charlottesville and elsewhere indicate that these symbols of white supremacy are still being invoked for similar purposes.

Monuments were erected in states that played no part in the war or did even exist in the war.

Given this background, why are we fighting to retain them, when they, as intended, function as a reminder of enslavement, segregation, and loss to a siginfo ant proportion of American citizenry?

These aren’t monuments on historical sites and battlefields.

Many were placed as the most of the veterans were dying off (around 1900-1915). Others were placed on or about the 100th Anniversary.

Hell, we JUST BARELY got a WWII war memorial in DC.

But don't let reality get in the way of a good narrative.

Speaking of “getting in the way of a good narrative” can you address why they were put in states that either did not exist or did not participate in the war? Why were they mass produced? Why did their placement coincide with major racial events? Why were only confederate monuments spread like this?

Thank you. I look forward to YOUR narrative

 

[Coyote]

Meanwhile it's total crickets on Democrat HERO and beloved party leader Robert Byrd...also an exalted cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan who filibustered the civil rights act and has over 50 monuments, bridges, dams that carry his name.

Yes, Robert Byrd was a far right conservative, just like all the other racist Democrats of the Old South.

And?

Byrd was a Democrat you lying hack DEMOCRAT often praised by Dem leaders.

Democrat or Republican, it does not matter why build statues to losers, why wave the flag of losers.

The people who want to build statues of losers want to celebrate losing.

They are losers.

If that’s the case we should never see another nations flag flown within our borders. No pride if heritage should be allowed. Anywhere. If they came to the US it’s because their home nation are losers.

A flag of a rebel group trying to break up our country is different than another country's flag

It would be like flying an ISIS flag.