Gun Daydreaming

Mac1958

Mac1958

Diamond Member
Dec 8, 2011
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Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.
Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:
  • Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
  • Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
  • Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
  • Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
  • Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:
  • Violence and gore on television and in movies
  • Violent and gory video games
  • Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
  • Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
  • Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
  • Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:
  • Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
  • Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
  • Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.
 
Last edited:
R.d91889ae4cfc892326e6a4ccb13da462
 
Not one single point you made doesn't deserve to be on the discussion table.
All of it is worthy of genuine discussion.
It's called compromise and solving problems.

In reality, all that is going to happen, just like all the previous mass murders like this one, is a lot of posturing.. huffing and puffing... until the next shiny object arrives to begin a new topic to be outraged about.
Americans have the attention span of an 18 month old. And the same problem solving skills to boot.

Meanwhile, more children are murdered on an average weekend in inner city violence than all the mass murders of a decade combined. But gee, there is no advantage politically to bring that up.
GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!! - yet not one single politician throughout the United States has the slightest interest in pursuing to enforce gun laws in their violence laden cities. Can't do that!
 
Mac1958 said:
Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:
  • Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
  • Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
  • Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
  • Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
  • Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:
  • Violence and gore on television and in movies
  • Violent and gory video games
  • Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
  • Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
  • Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
  • Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:
  • Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
  • Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
  • Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.
Click to expand...
If we had adults in Congress and the White House this is the kind of conversation they would be having.
 
iamwhatiseem said:
Not one single point you made doesn't deserve to be on the discussion table.
All of it is worthy of genuine discussion.
It's called compromise and solving problems.

In reality, all that is going to happen, just like all the previous mass murders like this one, is a lot of posturing.. huffing and puffing... until the next shiny object arrives to begin a new topic to be outraged about.
Americans have the attention span of an 18 month old. And the same problem solving skills to boot.

Meanwhile, more children are murdered on an average weekend in inner city violence than all the mass murders of a decade combined. But gee, there is no advantage politically to bring that up.
GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!! - yet not one single politician throughout the United States has the slightest interest in pursuing to enforce gun laws in their violence laden cities. Can't do that!
Click to expand...
Such is the nature of our political system. If there isn't clear political advantage in addressing something, if it hurts re-election chances, it's avoided. That's the incentive.

We need to fix our system and hold these people to higher standards, before it's too late.
 
Mac1958 said:
Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:
  • Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
  • Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
  • Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
  • Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
  • Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:
  • Violence and gore on television and in movies
  • Violent and gory video games
  • Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
  • Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
  • Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
  • Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:
  • Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
  • Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
  • Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.
Click to expand...
How many people die of guns every year in the US?

It is around 40,000

How many people die from suicide from guns?

It is about half.

How many in the media lament over the half that shoot and kill themselves?

None.

How many mass shootings make up the 40,000?

It is about 0,00001%, yet that is all the media focuses on.

How many people die every year from alcoholism?

It is about 150,000, yet no one in the media ever laments over that.

You say innocent people are not killed from drinking?

Tell that to those who have lost loved ones in cars from other drunk drivers

How many in the media lament over those deaths?

You guessed it, not a one

So the media is focusing all of societies problems on the very small percentage of those dying from mass shootings, and Mac says because we cannot solve this one issue that we can no longer solve our problem?

Hilarious. The media refuses to identify our real problems, because they don't care, because they are all a bunch of left wing stooges with a political agenda

And yes, this makes the media that is one of societies biggest problems.
 
Mac1958 said:
Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:
  • Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
  • Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
  • Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
  • Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
  • Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:
  • Violence and gore on television and in movies
  • Violent and gory video games
  • Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
  • Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
  • Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
  • Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:
  • Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
  • Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
  • Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.
Click to expand...
I have a better idea.

Stop infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms, like it says not to do in the Constitution.
 
Mac1958 said:
  • Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
  • Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
  • Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
  • Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
  • Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
  • Ideas we come up with together???
Click to expand...
On it's face this doesn't look completely unreasonable but For your proposed background check system.

All you're going to accomplish with such a system is to ensure that millions of people who just need a little help will never seek it for fear of ending up on a list that could cost them their gun rights.

If you want to keep guns out of the hands of crazies, simply fully enforce existing law so that those who are mentally defective can be evaluated and if truly dangerous, declared so by a court of law and the results sent to NICS.

As for "loopholes" most of those are violations of various rights including property and privacy rights.

Simply passing a law that would make it a criminal offense to fail to have a BGC done on anyone you do a private transfer with and give everyone access to the NICS system so they can do so without going through an FFL.
 
Mac1958 said:
Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:
  • Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
  • Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
  • Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
  • Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
  • Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:
  • Violence and gore on television and in movies
  • Violent and gory video games
  • Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
  • Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
  • Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
  • Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
  • Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:
  • Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
  • Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
  • Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
  • Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.
Click to expand...
Lots of neat sounding stuff to get the “I love father government, more restrictions are the answer” commie-lite folks all giddy……BUT the issue and solution is so much simpler.
Americans hate each-other
America is no longer American
The american way no longer exists
God is detested and vilified
The american value system is detested and vilified
Morals, standards and expectations are detested and vilified’
Americas sovereignty is detested and vilified.

Look, our ‘gun laws’ have become more restrictive over time and yet mass shootings / shootings have increased….so what’s changed In America? The answer: Demography and the moral order.
You want to stop kids from being slaughtered? Fix those two things and TA-DA no kids die.

Finally…..tens of millions of illegals, empowered blacks, a hate police movement & a war on morals and values…what kind of America did you Lefties think you’d yield?
Hate sovereignty
Hate Christianity
Hate morals and values
Hate accountability
Hate standards and expectations
Hate the American Way
Be honest, don’t we have the America we should expect?
As Lefties whine daily about this new immoral, indecent, violent, divided America and “gun crime”, I can’t help but wonder what they thought they were manifesting all along?

The Decay Of American Culture- Is this the result of the Godless, anything goes, no moral order type of society that Democrats have built?

Isn’t this just another case of Democrats manifesting the problems they later bitch about? Where were all the “mass-shooters” in 1980 when America was American and american culture was celebrated and not denigrated? When will Democrats realize that they can’t get out of their own way? Literally...
www.usmessageboard.com
 
Mac1958 said:
Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
Click to expand...
So, you want parents to be responsible for the actions of their adult child?

Are you insane or drunk?
 
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