Gun Daydreaming

[Mac1958]

So, you want parents to be responsible for the actions of their adult child?

Are you insane or drunk?

No to all of the above.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:

• Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
• Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
• Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
• Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
• Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
• Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:

• Violence and gore on television and in movies
• Violent and gory video games
• Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
• Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
• Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
• Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
• Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:

• Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
• Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
• Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
• Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.

The Rifled Musket was the most advanced firearm available in the Colonial eara. Having them gave the Colonists a full 300 yard advantage over the Brown Bess, a smoothbore musket carried by the Brits.

They were or course men of ideas as much as ideals, inventors, and many educated in the sciences so they obviously knew firearms tech would continue to evolve and improve.

Their intent was clear and hasn't changed since 1789 when the 2nd was passed.

That is so that every man would be so equipped as to be able to show up and do battle as a light infantryman on a moments notice supplied with his own weapons, ammo, and equipment such as hatchets and knives along with their own clothing, bed rolls etc.

They were also expected to be well enough familiarized and proficient with their weapons so as to not need instruction along the way to the next battle.

None of that is possible if we are not at least as well equipped and armed as any threat we're likely to face so that would include all of the weapons and equipment needed by a modern infantryman.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)

You have this one absolutely backwards. Once your children reach adulthood they become fully responsible for their own actions.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

No to all of the above.

I think that if the school system and family didn't make an effort to put the nut case monster into a mental institution when the nut case monster was in their care that they should be held accountable for not meeting their civic responsibilities to the community.

It's the nut case monster that's broken not the firearm.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Canon Shooter]

No to all of the above.

Well, when you say something like this, it sure seems that way:

"Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage."

Are you sure you didn't mean to say "up to a certain stage"? Because the way it reads is that you think after a person reaches a certain stage (age?) that legal responsibility for their actions falls on the parents...

 

[Mac1958]

Well, when you say something like this, it sure seems that way:

"Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage."

Are you sure you didn't mean to say "up to a certain stage"? Because the way it reads is that you think after a person reaches a certain stage (age?) that legal responsibility for their actions falls on the parents...

Children, in the home, under 18.

Stage, meaning that we can't punish a parent for early offenses. They have to be given the chance to improve things.

You're welcome.

 

[Canon Shooter]

I think that if the school system and family didn't make an effort to put the nut case monster into a mental institution when the nut case monster was in their care that they should be held accountable for not meeting their civic responsibilities to the community.

Do you believe that the personality defects and mental deficiencies that some of these shooters exhibit would be sufficient to commit someone?

Most often you hear about a shooter being a loaner, or "He was always so quiet and polite". Rarely do they exhibit those traits which would send up a barrage of red flares...

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Do you believe that the personality defects and mental deficiencies that some of these shooters exhibit would be sufficient to commit someone?

Most often you hear about a shooter being a loaner, or "He was always so quiet and polite". Rarely do they exhibit those traits which would send up a barrage of red flares...

That is far from true. In almost every case we learn that they were sending up flares and red flags for days, weeks, sometimes even years some with more than a dozen violent episodes requiring police and Mental interventions.

Nobody just snaps one day going from perfectly normal to a mass murderer, it always takes time building until one day the final straw takes them over the edge.

 

[Canon Shooter]

Children, in the home, under 18.

Stage, meaning that we can't punish a parent for early offenses. They have to be given the chance to improve things.

You're welcome.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

I can agree that the parents are legally responsible for their minor children, but I've no problem at all charging a minor child as an adult for a mass shooting. That's what happened to the kid who shot up my daughter's school. The shooter broke open a locked case and stole his father's gun...

 

[Canon Shooter]

That is far from true. In almost every case we learn that they were sending up flares and red flags for days, weeks, sometimes even years some with more than a dozen violent episodes requiring police and Mental interventions.

Nobody just snaps one day going from perfectly normal to a mass murderer, it always takes time building until one day the final straw takes them over the edge.

True, but it's subtle.

Also, these incidents are always being viewed, and the shooter being commented about, with the benefit of hindsight...

 

[Mac1958]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

I can agree that the parents are legally responsible for their minor children, but I've no problem at all charging a minor child as an adult for a mass shooting. That's what happened to the kid who shot up my daughter's school. The shooter broke open a locked case and stole his father's gun...

I didn't say not to charge the child as well.

Never mind.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Do you believe that the personality defects and mental deficiencies that some of these shooters exhibit would be sufficient to commit someone?

Most often you hear about a shooter being a loaner, or "He was always so quiet and polite". Rarely do they exhibit those traits which would send up a barrage of red flares...

Is the school system doing their job in ensuring that the individual is not being bullied or turned into an outcast?

How about the counselling that schools are supposed to be doing?

Or does the school just look the other way?

Lot's of these shooters, like the ones at Columbine, went after specific targets and allowed some to escape their wraith.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Canon Shooter]

I didn't say not to charge the child as well.

Never mind.

If a 15 year old kid picks up a rock and throws it through a window, the parents are legally responsible for replacing the window.

If that same kid picks up a gun and kills 21 people at an elementary school, the onus for that is on him. What would you charge the parents with?

 

[Canon Shooter]

View attachment 653882

Is the school system doing their job in ensuring that the individual is not being bullied or turned into an outcast?

How about the counselling that schools are supposed to be doing?

Or does the school just look the other way?

Lot's of these shooters, like the ones at Columbine, went after specific targets and allowed some to escape their wraith.

*****SMILE*****

You didn't answer my question.

Your reluctance is noted...

 

[Auld Phart]

The Rifled Musket was the most advanced firearm available in the Colonial eara. Having them gave the Colonists a full 300 yard advantage over the Brown Bess, a smoothbore musket carried by the Brits.

They were or course men of ideas as much as ideals, inventors, and many educated in the sciences so they obviously knew firearms tech would continue to evolve and improve.

Their intent was clear and hasn't changed since 1789 when the 2nd was passed.

That is so that every man would be so equipped as to be able to show up and do battle as a light infantryman on a moments notice supplied with his own weapons, ammo, and equipment such as hatchets and knives along with their own clothing, bed rolls etc.

They were also expected to be well enough familiarized and proficient with their weapons so as to not need instruction along the way to the next battle.

None of that is possible if we are not at least as well equipped and armed as any threat we're likely to face so that would include all of the weapons and equipment needed by a modern infantryman.

The Rifled Musket was the most advanced firearm available in the Colonial era.

though rare, the Puckle gun was an early variation of the machine gun.

And if they bring up cannons, don't mention privateers.

 

[Blues Man]

Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:

• Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
• Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
• Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
• Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
• Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
• Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:

• Violence and gore on television and in movies
• Violent and gory video games
• Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
• Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
• Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
• Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
• Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:

• Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
• Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
• Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
• Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.

Funny how no one ever mentions enforcing gun laws we already have and getting people who break them off the streets as a solution even though we know it works.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

You didn't answer my question.

Your reluctance is noted...

I never said they had to be committed.

My next point is that cameras should be installed throughout the school system and in the buses so there's a video and audio record that can be accessed at any time by the parents and authorities.

*****SMILE*****

 

[Mac1958]

Why weren't we arguing about arming teachers and fortifying schools 40 years ago, 30 years ago?

What has happened to this country in the interim?

 

[Canon Shooter]

I never said they had to be committed.

Post #24:

"I think that if the school system and family didn't make an effort to put the nut case monster into a mental institution when the nut case monster was in their care that they should be held accountable for not meeting their civic responsibilities to the community."

'Splain, please...

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Post #24:

"I think that if the school system and family didn't make an effort to put the nut case monster into a mental institution when the nut case monster was in their care that they should be held accountable for not meeting their civic responsibilities to the community."

'Splain, please...

If the school and parents know there's a major problem with the kid they should have made a case to have the kid seeking psychiatric help or committed and be held accountable if they did not.

They're the ones who dropped the ball and allowed something that was broken out on the streets.

There was nothing wrong with the firearm it worked as advertised.

*****SMILE*****