Gun Daydreaming

[Mac1958]

I see no reason to have a kid in the military unless we are at war and need bodies to fill body bags with.

Here is the issue Mac and it is a sad day when I admit you and I can come to some sort of agreement before our elected leaders can.

Do I believe people should be able to own AR-15’s?

No, but I do digress it is protected under the second amendment but I feel it should be put on the same list as the UZI and Tommy Gun.

Mac I have to be truthful of America adopted a more Swedish way of thinking things would change but we must remember America was built on violence ( like another poster wrote ) and it is in the blood and teaching of this society, so how do you change the minds of many?

It has to start in the Schooling and will take decades and even then it might never happen…

I don’t know Max but all you wrote isn’t really something people should oppose but they will oppose because the media they are watching will tell them to oppose it…

Maybe I am wired differently and believe the violence is killing this great nation and drastic measures should be taken to teach the children to play nicely but again it ain’t happening…

Holy crap, nothing wrong with being wired differently. Looks to me like we could use more of it. Whether the tribes will admit it or not, we're in pretty desperate need of fresh perspectives right now.

I don't know what fixes this, I don't know what reverses this intense tribalism, and I've been saying this for years here. It's obviously only getting worse. But I can say that, for the first time in my life, I'm supporting a party with both money and effort for as long as the party is breathing. To me, at the foundation of ALL of the issues we're warring over, is a political/electoral system that incentivizes and rewards the worst behaviors of its participants. The Forward Party is the only one that is serious about addressing this fact.

Quixotic? Yeah, probably, no doubt. But my efforts going forward are about my daughters, not me. At least I'll know I tried.

 

[Mac1958]

You're day dreaming? Kind of hard to do while cut and paste this article with no link.

Those are my words.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Those are my words.

Ok those are your words. Why do you support taking rights away from adults?

 

[Mac-7]

Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)

This idea could use a little work

Libs are assigning children more rights and taking responsibility away from parents

Sex change laws are one glaring example where parents are prevented from intervening in a gender crisis of their children

Then of course there is abortion where judges are ruling that parents do not have to be informed or give permission

 

[Big Bend Texas]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

I can agree that the parents are legally responsible for their minor children, but I've no problem at all charging a minor child as an adult for a mass shooting. That's what happened to the kid who shot up my daughter's school. The shooter broke open a locked case and stole his father's gun...

Both need to be done. Parents have a duty to monitor their kids and not give them free access to firearms unless and until they prove themselves worthy and ready for that level of responsibility.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

This idea could use a little work

Libs are assigning children more rights and taking responsibility away from parents

Sex change laws are one glaring example where parents are prevented from intervening in a gender crisis of their children

Then of course there is abortion where judges are ruling that parents do not have to be informed or give permission

They want to lower the voting age to 16 while denying them the other rights afforded to adults.

If you aren't old enough and mature enough to legally purchase and possess firearms you aren't old enough or mature enough to vote either.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

True, but it's subtle.

Also, these incidents are always being viewed, and the shooter being commented about, with the benefit of hindsight...

People, especially parents are prone to denial. They are afraid to admit that little Johnny or Suzy is an entitled narcissist so desperate for fame they are willing to commit mass murder to get their 15 minutes of fame.

Prevention requires people, and particularly parents, start being honest with themselves, their kids, their HC providers, Police, and Judges.

Schools have got to stop burying incidents that show clear warning flags as well and go straight to the parents along with creating a paper trail when problem kids are identified and if they commit violent acts as school get the Police involved as well.

We have pretty well all the existing laws necessary to dramatically reduce violent crime including mass shootings but it requires parents, schools, other kids and police to sound the alarms early before it's too late and get those potential animals help as early as possible or locked up for those who cannot be helped.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Do you believe that the personality defects and mental deficiencies that some of these shooters exhibit would be sufficient to commit someone?

In many cases only enough for a 72-120hr evaluation but if the evaluation warrants the next step is to take it to a judge.

Even absent a forced commitment if there's strong enough evidence that the person suffers such a mental defect as to be dangerous with firearms they can be declared so without long term inpatient treatment.

In all too many of these cases we see that the red flags were flying for years before they take that final, fatal step.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

If a 15 year old kid picks up a rock and throws it through a window, the parents are legally responsible for replacing the window.

If that same kid picks up a gun and kills 21 people at an elementary school, the onus for that is on him. What would you charge the parents with?

You can start with making firearms accessible to the kid.

Many states have safe storage laws and more will soon follow I'm sure.

In the case of the broken window, the parents won't be charged with a crime except in very rare cases and that would be some form of parental neglect. The same should be true for more serious crimes such as any violent crime committed with a weapon.

Generally though they are civilly liable even if not criminally liable.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

though rare, the Puckle gun was an early variation of the machine gun.

And if they bring up cannons, don't mention privateers.



View attachment 653885

You are of course completely correct.

Generally though heavy weapons and ordnance were stored in community armories but they were generally purchased by the wealthier members of the community.

What is undeniably clear though is that their intent was that we each have the right to arm and equip ourselves well enough to show up and do battle as a light infantryman on a moments notice.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Funny how no one ever mentions enforcing gun laws we already have and getting people who break them off the streets as a solution even though we know it works.

That's because they aren't serious about trying to reduce crime, even mass shootings.

The goal hasn't changed since the sixties which is to disarm us to the greatest extent possible.

When the people live in fear of the gov't you have tyranny, when the gov't fears the people you have liberty.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

If you really want to end violent crime I have the perfect solution. Anyone convicted of a felony must serve their time completely no time off for good behavior. When they are released they will retain all their rights. This will make law makers rethink how they create criminal laws. There will not be any repeat offenders because if you repeat you will be executed. Crime will drop

 

[TNHarley]

I asked ol' mac to define what an assault weapon is, and to name the loopholes we should close, to further discussion. Turns out, he has no idea, and is just being disingenuous.
You simply cant deal with folks like that.
But leave it to ol mac to bitch and whine about people not willing to compromise lolz
Fuckin federal supremacists and their dishonesty

 

[Canon Shooter]

In many cases only enough for a 72-120hr evaluation but if the evaluation warrants the next step is to take it to a judge.

Even absent a forced commitment if there's strong enough evidence that the person suffers such a mental defect as to be dangerous with firearms they can be declared so without long term inpatient treatment.

In all too many of these cases we see that the red flags were flying for years before they take that final, fatal step.

In the opinion of some, yelling at another person is violence. All it takes is some flathead shrink to decide that a kid who yells at his mom could become violent and you're well on your way to violating someone's rights years down the road because they yelled at Mommy when he was a kid.

But here's a scenario: Say you commit a kid for a 96 hour evaluation. At the end of that 96 hours, what happens? Do you release him? If so, why? Has he been deemed sane? If so, can he buy a gun when he's of the legal age? If he hasn't been deemed sane, why release him? Do you hold him indefinitely? What if he's deemed to not be a danger, and then ten years down the road he shoots up a playground? Is your reaction going to be "Well, they should've known because he was kept for evaluation ten years ago", or will you simply chalk it up to the fact that sometimes people do shit that can't be explained or rationalized?

There are so many valid scenarios which can simply destroy the notion that we should violate someone's Constitutional rights based on something that may have occurred a decade earlier...

 

[Canon Shooter]

You can start with making firearms accessible to the kid.

Many states have safe storage laws and more will soon follow I'm sure.

In the case of Andy Williams, the 15 year old who shot 15 people at Santana High School in 2001, he broke into his father's locked storage box.

What would you charge the father with?

In the case of the broken window, the parents won't be charged with a crime except in very rare cases and that would be some form of parental neglect. The same should be true for more serious crimes such as any violent crime committed with a weapon.

And at what age would parent's parental responsibility become null and void?

Generally though they are civilly liable even if not criminally liable.

And? You want victim's families to be able to sue the parents of a shooter?

 

[Mac-7]

In many cases only enough for a 72-120hr evaluation but if the evaluation warrants the next step is to take it to a judge.

Even absent a forced commitment if there's strong enough evidence that the person suffers such a mental defect as to be dangerous with firearms they can be declared so without long term inpatient treatment.

In all too many of these cases we see that the red flags were flying for years before they take that final, fatal step.

Libs cannot be trusted to oversee the denial process for teenagers or adults

 

[miketx]

• Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
• Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
• Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
• Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)

Lmao! This crimo ghoul was known to police and had reported mental issues, but all that was ignored! You clowns start enforcing the laws we have and then maybe we can talk.

 

[marvin martian]

Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:

• Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
• Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
• Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
• Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
• Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
• Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:

• Violence and gore on television and in movies
• Violent and gory video games
• Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
• Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
• Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
• Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
• Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:

• Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
• Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
• Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
• Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.

Get your fascist hands off my civil rights, Nazi.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Just belching a few thoughts onto the internet for me to look at in writing. I'm not expecting anything of interest or value to come from this thread.

So on a macro level, regarding guns, I'm seeing two distinct areas that we would need to address. Obviously this isn't going to happen, because neither end of the issue is willing to look in the mirror or give an inch. In other words, America can no longer fix problems. Anyway, the two distinct areas are statutory and cultural. If I had my way, which I don't, we'd run with the following:

Statutory
Start with the facts: There are nearly 400 million guns in this country, so the cat is out of the bag now and we have to deal with WHAT IS. The saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true and perfectly reasonable, So on the statutory side, we have to be thoughtful and fair. So let's try:

• Increasing gun purchasing minimum age to 21
• Significantly increase security at schools, with the agreement that this is a band-aid, a shorter term fix, as we address the larger issues
• Tightening gun sales laws regarding background checks, closing loopholes as tightly as possible
• Connect gun background checks with something like "PsychPro", a national mental health registry
• Look at reviewing mental health status on a regular basis (an accurate and comprehensive national database would make that easy)
• Ideas we come up with together???

Cultural
We ache for the children who die in school shootings and pay nearly zero (0) attention to those who are dying every week on the streets of Chicago and LA. We have a culture that has been in decay for decades, to pretend that it is not is blatantly dishonest, and it's clearly only feeding on itself. As a nation, and hopefully with aggressive buy-in and leadership from top cultural figures, we would do all we could to address:

• Violence and gore on television and in movies
• Violent and gory video games
• Music that glamorizes violence, drugs, death, crime, rape and misogyny, among other things
• Maintaining expectations for communities and schools to raise standards
• Holding the purveyors of the above culturally and socially accountable
• Holding political leaders accountable when they don't press the issue with constituents
• Ideas we come up with together???

Then, we wait, see how things are going, and consider whether we should also:
Some ideas could be:

• Banning assault weapons, remembering with basic intellectual honesty that they are not the muskets to which the Founders referred
• Statutory controls on entertainment content (not fond of this one, but...)
• Assigning legal responsibility to parents for the actions of their children after a certain stage (ditto)
• Ideas we come up with together???

There. Again, this ain't gonna happen. We lack the ability now. Just daydreaming a bit.

You're right my inch was gave long before I was born 1934. No fucking more.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So, you want parents to be responsible for the actions of their adult child?

Are you insane or drunk?

Insane on tyranny