Facts About the Vietnam War that Liberal Historians Ignore

[Soupnazi630]

You are telling lies or are suffering from weaponized historical ignorance.

I stated facts

 

[Soupnazi630]

The part you missed out was that separation line between North and South was only meant to be temporary as laid down by the Geneva accords until elections to unite the Country, elections the US and their puppets in the South never wanted because they would have lost.

it was Minh who ignored The geneva accords and assumed power with no election. He then attacked South Vietnam

 

[beautress]

fred paid a quack to write little donnie a note..

it is oki, a leader like that would have gotten us all killed.l

Men of peace are blessed with good results.

Warmongers beget war that kill many on both sides.

 

[Deadstick]

I stated facts

No you didn't i told you the separation was ruled by the UN at the Geneva conference to be temporary until elections were held for unification of the Country.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No you didn't i told you the separation was ruled by the UN at the Geneva conference to be temporary until elections were held for unification of the Country.

I stated facts and you did not contradsict ,challenge or even address them.

Minh seized power cancelled all elections and then attacked the south. He was the aggressor

 

[Deadstick]

it was Minh who ignored The geneva accords and assumed power with no election. He then attacked South Vietnam

Wrong because there was no election because the South puppets and the US wouldn't take part, because they knew Ho would win, that is when Ho decided to use force to liberate the Country.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong because there was no election because the South puppets and the US wouldn't take part, because they knew Ho would win, that is when Ho decided to use force to liberate the Country.

WRONG

the US had no part to take

Minh refused to ghold any and simply seized power and then launched the war. he was liberating NOTHJING he was an imperialist aggressor

 

[GLASNOST]

No you didn't i told you the separation was ruled by the UN at the Geneva conference to be temporary until elections were held for unification of the Country.

Thank you, Deadstick. I appreciate your contributions to this Forum more every day.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... there was no election because the South puppets and the US wouldn't take part, because they knew Ho would win,

In other words, the US sabotaged the election in such a way that it never took place.

that is when Ho decided to use force to liberate the Country.

Not only is that true but it is also the fact of the matter.

 

[Soupnazi630]

In other words, the US sabotaged the election in such a way that it never took place.

Not only is that true but it is also the fact of the matter.

The US sabatoged nothing Minh did

he set out to invade and conquer not liberate

 

[Deadstick]

Thank you, Deadstick. I appreciate your contributions to this Forum more every day.

Thank's but it's hard work trying to educate these people, because they don't want to be educated.

 

[Deadstick]

The US sabatoged nothing Minh did

he set out to invade and conquer not liberate

When in 1954 the Vietnamese people under the leadership of Ho Chi Minh finally defeated France in their 8-year war for independence, Vietnam was temporarily divided by the Geneva Accords into 2 zones, so that the French and the small minority of mandarin Vietnamese (rich landlords and officials) who fought on the French side could have time to settle their affairs in the South. An election was promised within 2 years in which the people of all Vietnam would be reunited under the one government they preferred. Experts agreed that the people would vote 80% for Ho Chi Minh, who was their national hero. But President Eisenhower and Secretary of State Dulles decided that, to prevent the southern half of Vietnam from voting for Ho Chi Minh, they would attempt (in violation of their promise to abide by the Geneva Accords) to replace the French and establish an American sphere of influence there. Dulles installed Diem (a mandarin Vietnamese whom he and Cardinal Spellman had found living in the United States) as dictator of South Vietnam, in Saigon, and encouraged him to cancel the promised election.

America's puppet Diem turned out to be an unpopular, reactionary, cruel dictator. He canceled not only the national election but the traditional village elections as well. He gave back to the rich absentee landlords the land that Ho Chi Minh had previously given to the peasants.

 

[Mushroom]

The part you missed out was that separation line between North and South was only meant to be temporary as laid down by the Geneva accords until elections to unite the Country, elections the US and their puppets in the South never wanted because they would have lost.

No, elections that were postponed and then cancelled because North Vietnam rather quickly started a campaign of political assassinations in South Vietnam. Then followed it up with an armed incursion then invasion by the NVA.

And South Vietnam said there were not going to be any elections until the military attacks and assassinations ended. They never ended, so there were never elections.

Once again, amazing how your propaganda always seems to leave those very important things out. As I said, it would be like Russia demanding elections in the annexed territory during their war against Ukraine. But obviously, you think such things are completely valid.

 

[Mushroom]

They involved themselves in a conflict supporting one side, what did they expect?

No, because just like in Korea, when the area was partitioned after the French-Indochina War, two nations were selected at their request to help assist in their transition.

North Vietnam selected the Soviet Union, South Vietnam selected the United States (with lesser support from France).

So no, the US did not "involve itself", no more than the Soviet Union did.

Tell me, have you ever actually read the Geneva Agreement? Because what you keep saying over and over is in complete contradiction to the agreement itself. If you have not read it, I suggest you start there before saying anything else.

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/KH-LA-VN_540720_GenevaAgreements.pdf

 

[Mushroom]

When in 1954 the Vietnamese people under the leadership of Ho Chi Minh finally defeated France in their 8-year war for independence, Vietnam was temporarily divided by the Geneva Accords into 2 zones, so that the French and the small minority of mandarin Vietnamese (rich landlords and officials) who fought on the French side could have time to settle their affairs in the South.

And once again with the propaganda.

You know the French-Indochina War was not that simple, right? There were a great many organizations fighting in that, not just the French and the Viet Minh. But those were the two largest factions. And a hell of a lot of Vietnamese supported the French not because of France itself, but because they hated Communism.

It was not just the "Rich Landlords and Officials", a hell of a lot of their Intellectual Classes also fled North Vietnam. In fact, it was pretty much the exact same thing that happened in Korea and Germany. When areas were set up for Communism and Non-Communism, a hell of a lot of people left the Communist areas and fled to where they would not be forced to live under Communism.

However, you seem to be completely unable to say anything that indicated you are aware of that, and almost everything you post reads like really bad propaganda from 60 years ago or more. And you are trying to imply that the entire period after the Geneva Accords was simply to give them some time before they would all accept Communism.

 

[Mushroom]

Wrong because there was no election because the South puppets and the US wouldn't take part, because they knew Ho would win, that is when Ho decided to use force to liberate the Country.

Right. And the campaign of assassinations and invasions had nothing to do with that at all.

 

[Deadstick]

And once again with the propaganda.

You know the French-Indochina War was not that simple, right? There were a great many organizations fighting in that, not just the French and the Viet Minh. But those were the two largest factions. And a hell of a lot of Vietnamese supported the French not because of France itself, but because they hated Communism.

It was not just the "Rich Landlords and Officials", a hell of a lot of their Intellectual Classes also fled North Vietnam. In fact, it was pretty much the exact same thing that happened in Korea and Germany. When areas were set up for Communism and Non-Communism, a hell of a lot of people left the Communist areas and fled to where they would not be forced to live under Communism.

However, you seem to be completely unable to say anything that indicated you are aware of that, and almost everything you post reads like really bad propaganda from 60 years ago or more. And you are trying to imply that the entire period after the Geneva Accords was simply to give them some time before they would all accept Communism.

Give it up while you think you are ahead, i just showed how the South Dictator on US orders didn't want that election.

 

[Deadstick]

Right. And the campaign of assassinations and invasions had nothing to do with that at all.

What are you barking about?

 

[AZrailwhale]

No, because just like in Korea, when the area was partitioned after the French-Indochina War, two nations were selected at their request to help assist in their transition.

North Vietnam selected the Soviet Union, South Vietnam selected the United States (with lesser support from France).

So no, the US did not "involve itself", no more than the Soviet Union did.

Tell me, have you ever actually read the Geneva Agreement? Because what you keep saying over and over is in complete contradiction to the agreement itself. If you have not read it, I suggest you start there before saying anything else.

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/KH-LA-VN_540720_GenevaAgreements.pdf

One thing in the final agreement that I didn't pick up on earlier is the guarantee of freedom of movement from the zone of control of the North to the zone of control of the south. That pretty much blows the single country argument out of the water since the agreement itself that ended the war specifically mentions two states.

 

[Mushroom]

One thing in the final agreement that I didn't pick up on earlier is the guarantee of freedom of movement from the zone of control of the North to the zone of control of the south. That pretty much blows the single country argument out of the water since the agreement itself that ended the war specifically mentions two states.

Right, and all the talk about demilitarization zones, political and administrative of the zones, and prohibition of the sides in talking any forms of military action, sabotage, or threats against the other mean absolutely nothing. As well as the very clear decisions as to what land areas the two new nations would occupy.

Tell me, why is this considered to be the formation of modern Cambodia and Laos, but somehow it is not the formation of South Vietnam? The Accords that ended the war very clearly set up four new nations. Cambodia, Laos, North Vietnam, and South Vietnam.