The Missile Lesson the West Can’t Ignore

[M14 Shooter]

Yes, they could use them in the field.

You're lying.

 

[Kruska]

Yes, they could use them in the field.

You know the Joints Chief of Staff studied and rejected tactical nukes in Korea.

They did in Vietnam as well.

Yes, China possessed nuclear ballistic weapons in 1966
Following their first atomic test in 1964, China conducted its first successful guided missile nuclear weapon test on October 27, 1966. They also tested a hydrogen bomb theory that same year, on December 28, 1966

Second Artillery Corps (Missiles - Chinese tech) was officially established on July 1966

As for tactical nukes: Russian tech.
Special Artillery Corps was established, on June,1958

 

[jacksonlamb]

 

[Failzero]

You're lying.

They were barely able to miniaturize them to adapt for clunky unreliable pre Medium Range Rockets modified for almost medium range capability ( Thus they perhaps with a super human effort might have hit Anchorage or Seattle , but more likely Tokyo or Seoul and perhaps Guam )

 

[M14 Shooter]

They were barely able to miniaturize them to adapt for clunky unreliable pre Medium Range Rockets modified for almost medium range capability

Well, yeah. Testing a nuclear device attached to a missile adapted for that testing is a far cry from fielding an operational nuclear platform. The idea China possessed - or could possess - the capability to provide a nuclear response, 1965-1967, to our use of tactical weapons against massed Chinese troops in Vietnam is laughable.

 

[toobfreak]

The Missile Lesson the West Can’t Ignore​

I think it less of being an ignored matter and more one of profitability.

There is big money to be made buying 10 million dollar bombs from Raytheon.
There is little money to be made from making thousands of low-tech drones with wood propellers.

Our generals would laugh at anyone offering such a weapon! For one thing, what would we do with them? The US military still feels relatively immune to territorial attack here on our mainland, so our military is primarily designed as an /offensive/ tool. Wood drones are something we might laugh by the hundreds if, say, we were at war with Canada or Mexico and fighting a border skirmish.

Our generals want space-based weapons they can launch from the moon and hit a postage stamp here on Earth--- pure bragging rights.

More to the point: the IRGC is dug in like ticks everywhere, impossible to locate from the sky, with a cache of small weapons and rockets they can shoulder fire or launch from the pack of a PU backed out from a garage then moved. Even drones won't do any good there. Iranian drones have been effective only because their attacks have been both far and wide and indiscriminent.

The only way to deal with that really is to fight a real war, get dirty, put boots on the ground and take that battle straight to them.

 

[toobfreak]

Korean War?
Vietnam War?
Afghanistan?
Iraq?

And in every one of those cases, our military was reduced to a police action because of political correctness, fear of civilian casualties, etc., just like the angst over a handful of our soldiers getting killed the other week or that supposed girl school hit that was probably either fake news or due to being located next to an Iranian base.

So long as you have PC bodies like the UN or political bodies like the democrats who scream at the slightest consequence of war, we will fight police actions instead of wars.

Look at right now: we have a country like Iran who has declared war on us for half a century who has killed thousands of Americans and declared it their absolute purpose to destroy us building up a massive military along with a nuclear program on the verge of being able to nuke most of Europe, all the while being a vital ally to China who is our #1 threat making aggressions the world over to pen us in, and still we have people yelling everywhere how this Iran war was illegal and unjustified.

 

[Failzero]

Well, yeah. Testing a nuclear device attached to a missile adapted for that testing is a far cry from fielding an operational nuclear platform. The idea China possessed - or could possess - the capability to provide a nuclear response, 1965-1967, to our use of tactical weapons against massed Chinese troops in Vietnam is laughable.

Agreed ( They would have had to fly device and drop it or smuggle it to area targeted )

 

[Failzero]

And in every one of those cases, our military was reduced to a police action because of political correctness, fear of civilian casualties, etc., just like the angst over a handful of our soldiers getting killed the other week or that supposed girl school hit that was probably either fake news or due to being located next to an Iranian base.

So long as you have PC bodies like the UN or political bodies like the democrats who scream at the slightest consequence of war, we will fight police actions instead of wars.

Look at right now: we have a country like Iran who has declared war on us for half a century who has killed thousands of Americans and declared it their absolute purpose to destroy us building up a massive military along with a nuclear program on the verge of being able to nuke most of Europe, all the while being a vital ally to China who is our #1 threat making aggressions the world over to pen us in, and still we have people yelling everywhere how this Iran war was illegal and unjustified.

The only post WW2 wars that gloves come off are on Other White People ( See Russia / Ukraine )

 

[SaxonJackson]

And in every one of those cases, our military was reduced to a police action because of political correctness, fear of civilian casualties, etc., just like the angst over a handful of our soldiers getting killed the other week or that supposed girl school hit that was probably either fake news or due to being located next to an Iranian base.

So long as you have PC bodies like the UN or political bodies like the democrats who scream at the slightest consequence of war, we will fight police actions instead of wars.

Look at right now: we have a country like Iran who has declared war on us for half a century who has killed thousands of Americans and declared it their absolute purpose to destroy us building up a massive military along with a nuclear program on the verge of being able to nuke most of Europe, all the while being a vital ally to China who is our #1 threat making aggressions the world over to pen us in, and still we have people yelling everywhere how this Iran war was illegal and unjustified.

Just like Trump: If something doesn't fit the Neocon narrative it must be "fake news." If the Jerusalem Post reported that 25,000 Israeli girls were struck by Iranian missiles ... it would be the Gospel Truth.

Nevertheless ... I initially responded to another poster who said "we play to win." Just wanted to remind him that -- "not so much."

 

[toobfreak]

The only post WW2 wars that gloves come off are on Other White People ( See Russia / Ukraine )

What gloves? We have not personally taken a single action against Russia nor for Ukraine other than to help Ukraine out selling them some stuff, and I'm loathe to understand why.

Frankly, since WWII, I'm wondering if this country really even has it in them to ever fight a real war again, to send battalions of men into meat grinders; for one thing, I don't think many of our kids these days have the mind for it to fight for their country, and I think the main impetus for building all these super-weapons is because America wants to sit in a clean room pushing buttons sipping a mocha latte while the actual combat goes on thousands of miles away, like playing a video game.

 

[toobfreak]

Just like Trump: If something doesn't fit the Neocon narrative it must be "fake news."

What narrative? Try presenting some evidence of something other than some errant web article from some obscure source that can be corroborated elsewhere and maybe we have something to talk about.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Frankly, since WWII, I'm wondering if this country really even has it in them to ever fight a real war again, to send battalions of men into meat grinders;

That's a big no.

 

[toobfreak]

That's a big no.

Sadly then at some point, if we are unwilling to fight for our freedom, then like Europe, we lose. You cannot win a real war if your soldiers value their own lives over defeating an enemy, and once an enemy learns you have a red line you won't cross, they have you beat.

Clearly, Europe has lost the will to fight for anything, most EU countries have a pitiful military now, they're all being hamstrung by human rights lawyers to give the battlefield their rules for engagement on when and how we can fight back if ever.

And 3/4th of the kids I see growing up today don't look like they could battle their way out of a tiddlywinks tournament much less handle an M16 in the mud.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Well, yeah. Testing a nuclear device attached to a missile adapted for that testing is a far cry from fielding an operational nuclear platform. The idea China possessed - or could possess - the capability to provide a nuclear response, 1965-1967, to our use of tactical weapons against massed Chinese troops in Vietnam is laughable.

You don't think the would not do the same to massed American troops in Vietnam and installations?

No one would ever approved invading the North.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You don't think the would not do the same to massed American troops in Vietnam and installations?

You aren't paying attention.

No one would ever approved invading the North.

You aren't paying attention.

Come back and see me when you can.

 

[jacksonlamb]

You aren't paying attention.

You aren't paying attention.

Come back and see me when you can.

Thanks for admitting you lost. Such a loser. We never would have invaded the North.

The American people would not have permitted it.

 

[toobfreak]

View attachment 1235058

Wow, amazing the crap that people put out with a joint between their lips, TDS in their heart and an art pen in their hands.

 

[jacksonlamb]

Wow, amazing the crap that people put out with a joint between their lips, TDS in their heart and an art pen in their hands.

So true. Trump devotion syndrome has drive MAGA batshit crazy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Thanks for admitting you lost.

I lost?
Shit -- boy, you proved my argument true.
You don't realize this, because you aren't paying attention.