Facts About the Vietnam War that Liberal Historians Ignore

[Soupnazi630]

You are one of those who think North and South Vietnam were two separate Countries

IOW someone who understands the history as opposed to the woke crap you regurgitate

 

[WinterBorn]

The war is over Move On.

It is not over for some.

 

[otto105]

It is not over for some.

The Civil War still has more people fighting it.

 

[WinterBorn]

The Civil War still has more people fighting it.

And WWII had even more people fighting in it.

 

[GLASNOST]

You are one of those who think North and South Vietnam were two separate Countries

Yes, he does.

 

[mikegriffith1]

You [Soupnazi630] are one of those who think North and South Vietnam were two separate Countries

Huh??? They were two separate countries, at least on planet Earth. South Vietnam was recognized as a sovereign nation by 88 countries. In contrast, North Vietnam was never recognized by more than 60 countries, and many of those countries only did so on a de facto basis. South Vietnam would have been admitted to the UN if the Soviet Union had not used its veto to block her admission.

And I take it you're just not interested in all the facts that we now know from North Vietnamese sources about the war. In case you missed it: LINK.

 

[Deadstick]

Huh??? They were two separate countries, at least on planet Earth. South Vietnam was recognized as a sovereign nation by 88 countries. In contrast, North Vietnam was never recognized by more than 60 countries, and many of those countries only did so on a de facto basis. South Vietnam would have been admitted to the UN if the Soviet Union had not used its veto to block her admission.

And I take it you're just not interested in all the facts that we now know from North Vietnamese sources about the war. In case you missed it: LINK.

Let me give you a fact, that line between North and South Vietnam was a temporary divide until elections were held to unite the Country as agreed in the Geneva accords, you have been told this many time but refuse to face that reality, the fact is the US and their puppet in the South didn't want that election because they would have lost.

 

[GLASNOST]

You are one of those who think North and South Vietnam were two separate Countries

Yes, he does.

Huh??? They were two separate countries, at least on planet Earth. South Vietnam was recognized as a sovereign nation by 88 countries. In contrast, North Vietnam was never recognized by more than 60 countries, and many of those countries only did so on a de facto basis. South Vietnam would have been admitted to the UN if the Soviet Union had not used its veto to block her admission.

And I take it you're just not interested in all the facts that we now know from North Vietnamese sources about the war. In case you missed it: LINK.

As I've said on many occasions, I am a Vietnam Veteran. Most people think the Vietnam War was between the US and the Vietnamese. Yeah, OK, but those who fought beside me included men in the national uniforms (just to avoid naming volunteers from other countries who wore American uniforms) Australians, New Zealanders, Puerto Ricans, South Koreans, and I think there were some Thais and a few others. I repeat, these were nationals of their own countries (in their own uniforms) who engaged in the war against the Vietnamese.

Now, many years ago I prepared to write a fact book bringing light to that subject, gathering as much statistics as was possible. I got a lot of help from the South Korean embassy and my contact was actually a Vietnam Veteran too. So, we reminisced over "the good old days". But I ran into a brick wall which ended my project when I contacted the Vietnamese embassy and told them what I wanted to do. He listened to me with some interest until ....... I asked him if he could provide any statistics on the number of North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese during the war. His response was that there were no North and South Vietnamese because his country was never divided I realized that he was right. So, let me tell it to you straight ..... there were no two separate countries. The misled cherry boys (mostly Christians) were paid by Washington to "create" a second country but they didn't succeed and I don't give a shit what the US or the UN had to say about it.

 

[Mushroom]

that line between North and South Vietnam was a temporary divide until elections were held to unite the Country as agreed in the Geneva accords

Very true.

Also very true that in less than two years, North Vietnam started an invasion and assassination campaign in South Vietnam.

Now what on earth would possibly justify any kind of elections while that was going on?

Oh, and that was also the intent of the division of Korea after WWII. And once again, we all know how that turned out.

I suppose you also believe that the "elections" in North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela are legitimate elections also.

 

[Mushroom]

And I take it you're just not interested in all the facts that we now know from North Vietnamese sources about the war.

They are only interested in the "facts" that even remotely support their beliefs, and outright ignore or refuse to accept any others.

Notice how often they bring up the "elections" that were planned. Of course, they refuse to ever acknowledge the invasion going on and the assassinations of South Vietnamese officials by the North Vietnamese. Or why anybody would even consider elections during an actual invasion. It is about as silly as considering elections in Ukraine right now.

Of course, I am pretty much positive that most of those that believe that South Vietnam is not a country also support the Russian invasion of Ukraine, so at least there they are consistent.

 

[GLASNOST]

Let me give you a fact, that line between North and South Vietnam was a temporary divide until elections were held to unite the Country as agreed in the Geneva accords, you have been told this many time but refuse to face that reality, the fact is the US and their puppet in the South didn't want that election because they would have lost.

This is an important fact about Vietnam's history but in Orwellian fashion it is being suppressed by the Military-Industrial Complex, dirty politicians, and their benefactors.

 

[GLASNOST]

Very true.

Also very true that in less than two years, North Vietnam started an invasion and assassination campaign in South Vietnam.

Now what on earth would possibly justify any kind of elections while that was going on?

Oh, and that was also the intent of the division of Korea after WWII. And once again, we all know how that turned out.

I suppose you also believe that the "elections" in North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela are legitimate elections also.

The idea of creating a North and a South Vietnam was an American CIA fabrication that was never achieved. Promising Vietnamese Christians a perpetual privileged nation (on the French model during their colonial occupation) and shuttling said Christians to the south part of the country was not the Amerians’ nor the UN's business. Ho Chi Minh and his Communist endeavors freed the majority (but underprivileged) Buddhists from their shackles. The US tried to thwart Vietnam's efforts but the good guys won again and tossed the Americans out on their asses.

 

[Deadstick]

Yes, he does.

As I've said on many occasions, I am a Vietnam Veteran. Most people think the Vietnam War was between the US and the Vietnamese. Yeah, OK, but those who fought beside me included men in the national uniforms (just to avoid naming volunteers from other countries who wore American uniforms) Australians, New Zealanders, Puerto Ricans, South Koreans, and I think there were some Thais and a few others. I repeat, these were nationals of their own countries (in their own uniforms) who engaged in the war against the Vietnamese.

Now, many years ago I prepared to write a fact book bringing light to that subject, gathering as much statistics as was possible. I got a lot of help from the South Korean embassy and my contact was actually a Vietnam Veteran too. So, we reminisced over "the good old days". But I ran into a brick wall which ended my project when I contacted the Vietnamese embassy and told them what I wanted to do. He listened to me with some interest until ....... I asked him if he could provide any statistics on the number of North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese during the war. His response was that there were no North and South Vietnamese because his country was never divided I realized that he was right. So, let me tell it to you straight ..... there were no two separate countries. The misled cherry boys (mostly Christians) were paid by Washington to "create" a second country but they didn't succeed and I don't give a shit what the US or the UN had to say about it.

Great post.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Let me give you a fact, that line between North and South Vietnam was a temporary divide until elections were held to unite the Country as agreed in the Geneva accords, you have been told this many time but refuse to face that reality, the fact is the US and their puppet in the South didn't want that election because they would have lost.

Just shaking my head. Holy cow. This is 2024. You talk like you're living in the 1950s.

First off, the Geneva Accords provision about unification does not change the fact that 88 nations recognized South Vietnam as a sovereign nation, and that fewer than 60 nations recognized North Vietnam. So, they were in reality two separate nations, regardless of what the Geneva Accords called for in 1954.

A few other facts:

* North Vietnam had no intention of holding a free and fair election. That's why the Hanoi regime rejected the proposal for a UN-supervised election, and it was Hanoi's rejection of this key proposal that caused South Vietnam to refuse to sign the Geneva Accords and to refuse to take part in a joint north-south election. I discussed this fact in the OP, but you keep ignoring it.

* Even John F. Kennedy and Mike Mansfield said South Vietnam had no obligation to take part in a north-south election in 1956, or at any other time, unless and until North Vietnam agreed to a UN-supervised election. Even the New York Times agreed with South Vietnam on this point.

* Yes, the Geneva Accords said that the dividing line between North Vietnam and South Vietnam was intended to be temporary, but South Vietnam did not sign the accords and thus was not obligated to recognize that provision.

* Oh, yes, Ho Chi Minh would have defeated Ngo Dinh Diem in a non-UN-supervised election because the Communists would have rigged the vote in the north and would have prevented about 5-8% of the South Vietnamese from voting or would have compelled them to vote for Ho Chi Minh.

Everyone from Eisenhower to Mansfield to Kennedy recognized this fact, and that's why they supported South Vietnam's refusal to take part in a north-south election.

 

[Mushroom]

Oh, yes, Ho Chi Minh would have defeated Ngo Dinh Diem in a non-UN-supervised election because the Communists would have rigged the vote in the north and would have prevented about 5-8% of the South Vietnamese from voting or would have compelled them to vote for Ho Chi Minh.

Or more.

One can never forget the "Vietcong Special Activity Cells" that were active before the ink was even dry on the Geneva Accords. Where they were killing over 1,000 people a month, normally government officials or prominent South Vietnamese supporters. Being known to be a supporter of the South Vietnam government when the VC came into your village was a death sentence.

Why in the hell would anybody choose to hold elections to merge with a nation like that? Not that it was any kind of secret, they executed over 3,000 "Enemies of Liberty" in the Hue Massacre alone. One of which was Catholic Priest John-Baptiste Nguyen Buu Do ng, who was captured during the Tet Offensive in Hue. Taken from his church, his body was found almost two years later in a mass grave, along with the bodies of two other Catholic priests and 20 civilians.

And a lot has been made over the execution on film of Nguyen Lem. But for some reason, it is never mentioned that he was a Captain in the VC and conducting attacks in civilian clothes. A clear violation of International Law and therefore lost all protection of a POW. And he was captured leaving the site of a horrible massacre, which included 34 people including men, women, and children. And during questioning bragged that he had them rounded up and killed under orders. The General that shot him knew some of the victims, and as under the Laws of Warfare he was classified as a "spy" he was summarily executed.

I think most people do not even realize that combatants that operate in civilian attire and kill non-combatants are not protected under any of the Hague or Geneva Conventions. Simply executing them is perfectly legal.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Let me give you a fact, that line between North and South Vietnam was a temporary divide until elections were held to unite the Country as agreed in the Geneva accords, you have been told this many time but refuse to face that reality, the fact is the US and their puppet in the South didn't want that election because they would have lost.

And you have been told that ming cancelled the elections which he did ergo that genva agreement was null and void.

It did not matter what the US wanted it was minh who cancelled it and then attacked the south starting the war

You are really STUPID

 

[Soupnazi630]

Yes, he does.

As I've said on many occasions, I am a Vietnam Veteran. Most people think the Vietnam War was between the US and the Vietnamese. Yeah, OK, but those who fought beside me included men in the national uniforms (just to avoid naming volunteers from other countries who wore American uniforms) Australians, New Zealanders, Puerto Ricans, South Koreans, and I think there were some Thais and a few others. I repeat, these were nationals of their own countries (in their own uniforms) who engaged in the war against the Vietnamese.

Now, many years ago I prepared to write a fact book bringing light to that subject, gathering as much statistics as was possible. I got a lot of help from the South Korean embassy and my contact was actually a Vietnam Veteran too. So, we reminisced over "the good old days". But I ran into a brick wall which ended my project when I contacted the Vietnamese embassy and told them what I wanted to do. He listened to me with some interest until ....... I asked him if he could provide any statistics on the number of North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese during the war. His response was that there were no North and South Vietnamese because his country was never divided I realized that he was right. So, let me tell it to you straight ..... there were no two separate countries. The misled cherry boys (mostly Christians) were paid by Washington to "create" a second country but they didn't succeed and I don't give a shit what the US or the UN had to say about it.

You never served and know nothing about it

 

[Mushroom]

You never served and know nothing about it

Holy crap, but that was a giant load of nonsense. I especially love how he singled out that "Puerto Ricans" were wearing "American Uniforms". I bet he is not even aware of what nationality Puerto Ricans are.

They are Americans. And I have served with many during my time in the service. They are as American as the President is. I really have to question the statements of anybody that is apparently not aware that Puerto Ricans are Americans. Once claiming that, anything else they say is immediately suspect.

And Aussies and Kiwis had a uniform of the time that was olive green. You know, the same color as the Americans wore. As did the Brits, South Koreans, French, West Germans, Dutch, and most other nations at the time. That was pretty much common among all NATO forces, as well as Commonwealth forces.

 

[GLASNOST]

Great post.

Thank you, but I see that the idiots have contributed their idiocy ... as usual.

 

[Deadstick]

Thank you, but I see that the idiots have contributed their idiocy ... as usual.

They just won't accept it, i don't blame individual US soldiers at that time if they were drafted many would have thought it was the right thing to do because of all the propaganda, and at 18 many are not capable of critical thought.