Arming the debt bomb and rolling the dice ... Trump recession portends runaway debt and ruin

[joaquinmiller]

You don't even understand "production costs". In your budgetary requirement formulation, if the Saudis cancel one F-35 from their order, their production costs go down. If the Crown Prince orders two extra Bentleys, production costs go up.

If I were wrong, I'd admit it. Now, tell me the point of a price war, you yammering fuckstick.

Look jackass. When comparing a nation’s costs, you look at TOTAL COSTS. You don’t just look at production costs. Think. Why be dumb?

"Production cost' is a term with meaning, and you don't understand it. Why embarrass yourself by ignoring - studiously avoiding - the point of a price war?

This isn’t rocket science. I posted two sources that clearly show Russia’s TOTAL COSTS are significantly lower than the Saudis. Can you read or are you too chicken shit to admit you’re wrong?

And you think you’re an expert. LMFAO. DOOFUS.

And it's a good thing, too, because you're no rocket scientist, elmo.

True, but we both know I’m a great deal smarter than you.

You're not even smart enough to know the difference between production costs and national needs. If market share goes up, your version of production cost goes out the window.

We both know you're smart enough to avoid admitting the purpose of a price war divorces budgetary needs from the process. If it's so important for you to believe Russia has the upper hand in this, knock yourself out.

 

[gipper]

Look jackass. When comparing a nation’s costs, you look at TOTAL COSTS. You don’t just look at production costs. Think. Why be dumb?

"Production cost' is a term with meaning, and you don't understand it. Why embarrass yourself by ignoring - studiously avoiding - the point of a price war?

This isn’t rocket science. I posted two sources that clearly show Russia’s TOTAL COSTS are significantly lower than the Saudis. Can you read or are you too chicken shit to admit you’re wrong?

And you think you’re an expert. LMFAO. DOOFUS.

And it's a good thing, too, because you're no rocket scientist, elmo.

True, but we both know I’m a great deal smarter than you.

You're not even smart enough to know the difference between production costs and national needs. If market share goes up, your version of production cost goes out the window.

We both know you're smart enough to avoid admitting the purpose of a price war divorces budgetary needs from the process. If it's so important for you to believe Russia has the upper hand in this, knock yourself out.

LMFAO. You got smoked. Mr. oil expert.

 

[joaquinmiller]

"Production cost' is a term with meaning, and you don't understand it. Why embarrass yourself by ignoring - studiously avoiding - the point of a price war?

This isn’t rocket science. I posted two sources that clearly show Russia’s TOTAL COSTS are significantly lower than the Saudis. Can you read or are you too chicken shit to admit you’re wrong?

And you think you’re an expert. LMFAO. DOOFUS.

And it's a good thing, too, because you're no rocket scientist, elmo.

True, but we both know I’m a great deal smarter than you.

You're not even smart enough to know the difference between production costs and national needs. If market share goes up, your version of production cost goes out the window.

We both know you're smart enough to avoid admitting the purpose of a price war divorces budgetary needs from the process. If it's so important for you to believe Russia has the upper hand in this, knock yourself out.

LMFAO. You got smoked. Mr. oil expert.

No victory like self-proclaimed victory, right, fucknut? Look up production costs, then holler back. It has nothing with 'needs' or 'budgetary requirements'. In your words, are you too "chicken shit" to admit the purpose of a price war?

No need to answer - it's plain to see.

 

[gipper]

This isn’t rocket science. I posted two sources that clearly show Russia’s TOTAL COSTS are significantly lower than the Saudis. Can you read or are you too chicken shit to admit you’re wrong?

And you think you’re an expert. LMFAO. DOOFUS.

And it's a good thing, too, because you're no rocket scientist, elmo.

True, but we both know I’m a great deal smarter than you.

You're not even smart enough to know the difference between production costs and national needs. If market share goes up, your version of production cost goes out the window.

We both know you're smart enough to avoid admitting the purpose of a price war divorces budgetary needs from the process. If it's so important for you to believe Russia has the upper hand in this, knock yourself out.

LMFAO. You got smoked. Mr. oil expert.

No victory like self-proclaimed victory, right, fucknut? Look up production costs, then holler back. It has nothing with 'needs' or 'budgetary requirements'. In your words, are you too "chicken shit" to admit the purpose of a price war?

No need to answer - it's plain to see.

When one can’t admit they’re wrong, one has a problem. You have been exposed as a pompous ass. Tuck your tail between your legs and run away.

 

[joaquinmiller]

And it's a good thing, too, because you're no rocket scientist, elmo.

True, but we both know I’m a great deal smarter than you.

You're not even smart enough to know the difference between production costs and national needs. If market share goes up, your version of production cost goes out the window.

We both know you're smart enough to avoid admitting the purpose of a price war divorces budgetary needs from the process. If it's so important for you to believe Russia has the upper hand in this, knock yourself out.

LMFAO. You got smoked. Mr. oil expert.

No victory like self-proclaimed victory, right, fucknut? Look up production costs, then holler back. It has nothing with 'needs' or 'budgetary requirements'. In your words, are you too "chicken shit" to admit the purpose of a price war?

No need to answer - it's plain to see.

When one can’t admit they’re wrong, one has a problem. You have been exposed as a pompous ass. Tuck your tail between your legs and run away.

I'm right here. What's the purpose of a price war? What is the meaning of "production costs" in the oil industry? Ask the hack you originally sourced - he won't know either.

 

[Olde Europe]

I'm right here. What's the purpose of a price war? What is the meaning of "production costs" in the oil industry? Ask the hack you originally sourced - he won't know either.

Yeah. Yet, having taken his head off half a dozen times before, what's the point of doing it again? He didn't even notice, and that thing is as useless thereafter as it was before.

The more interesting question, methinks, would be, how long can the U.S. fracking industry, with some of the highest production costs in the world, stay alive amidst the price warriors, and avoid adding to what's likely going to be a pretty severe recession?

 

[Richard-H]

The Democrats fix the economy...

The Republicans ruin the economy....

The Democrats fix the economy...

The Republicans ruin the economy....

The Democrats fix the economy...

The Republicans ruin the economy....

The cycle is clear and for every republican ruination the wealthy bleed us of our wealth.

 

[22lcidw]

The Trump recession is here. It was hiding in plain sight before as burgeoning debt which is now going nuclear.

Trump's answer to the recession is to go nuclear on debt and slash payroll tax.

If Donald Trump slashes taxes further the debt growth will go to > 10 x GDP growth as the GDP slows to zero or goes negative.

Taxes will dive from loss of payroll taxes and from the decline in economic activity. The budget deficit could double to $2 Trillion.

This was always the danger of Trump's debt-fueled economy.

Trump's biography never progressed beyond chapter 11.

Donald Trump is sick and he has infected Uncle Sam.

Hmmmmm. For 3 years liberals have been telling us the current economic boom was Obama's baby. Now, all of a sudden, it's all Trump's fault. Which is it?

The growth is Obama's until the Trump depression hit.

The debt bomb is all Donald Trump's.

The debt bomb has been her not for months or years. But for decades. And even longer. Read about debts. There are a lot of promises made to many people in payments. The question is not if something is going to happen, but when. Up to Trump it has been a slow decline with some major blips. If they are printing lots of fiat currency to keep the system going, then what do you think the problem is? We are living beyond our means. But the cure is pain. And most likely a lot of burials.

 

[joaquinmiller]

I'm right here. What's the purpose of a price war? What is the meaning of "production costs" in the oil industry? Ask the hack you originally sourced - he won't know either.

Yeah. Yet, having taken his head off half a dozen times before, what's the point of doing it again? He didn't even notice, and that thing is as useless thereafter as it was before.

The more interesting question, methinks, would be, how long can the U.S. fracking industry, with some of the highest production costs in the world, stay alive amidst the price warriors, and avoid adding to what's likely going to be a pretty severe recession?

Producers will shut in their wells and wait for better prices. It figures to cause a slump in the Permian basin, but the product isn't going anywhere. The exploratory costs are sunk. Thousands of people with minuscule royalty interests will see their monthly/quarterly checks shrink or disappear. Some people will quit bragging as much. County governments that tax production will have to cut back on trips to Vegas.

I'm not involved, but I would think lower prices could create additional opportunities to move more power generation away from coal. The old floor for natural gas and ng liquids was petrochemical demand. Now it may be power generation.

 

[Olde Europe]

Producers will shut in their wells and wait for better prices. It figures to cause a slump in the Permian basin, but the product isn't going anywhere. The exploratory costs are sunk. Thousands of people with minuscule royalty interests will see their monthly/quarterly checks shrink or disappear. Some people will quit bragging as much. County governments that tax production will have to cut back on trips to Vegas.

I'm not involved, but I would think lower prices could create additional opportunities to move more power generation away from coal. The old floor for natural gas and ng liquids was petrochemical demand. Now it may be power generation.

Thanks. If I read you correctly, in a time horizon of months, perhaps up to a year, there is little by way of adverse effect - nothing really felt on a national scale. Yep, I hadn't thought about coal in that context, but it looks plausible. Also, if that price war were to go on longer, investment in sustainable energy sources might be discouraged / postponed. And I had really hoped the fracking shits would go belly-up by the dozens...

 

[joaquinmiller]

Producers will shut in their wells and wait for better prices. It figures to cause a slump in the Permian basin, but the product isn't going anywhere. The exploratory costs are sunk. Thousands of people with minuscule royalty interests will see their monthly/quarterly checks shrink or disappear. Some people will quit bragging as much. County governments that tax production will have to cut back on trips to Vegas.

I'm not involved, but I would think lower prices could create additional opportunities to move more power generation away from coal. The old floor for natural gas and ng liquids was petrochemical demand. Now it may be power generation.

Thanks. If I read you correctly, in a time horizon of months, perhaps up to a year, there is little by way of adverse effect - nothing really felt on a national scale. Yep, I hadn't thought about coal in that context, but it looks plausible. Also, if that price war were to go on longer, investment in sustainable energy sources might be discouraged / postponed. And I had really hoped the fracking shits would go belly-up by the dozens...

I don't put much stock in my ability to foretell the future, and I think slow growth could well suppress demand for 2+ years. Efficiencies aside, the demand for energy always increases as society expands, absent external economic forces.

 

[Olde Europe]

I don't put much stock in my ability to foretell the future, and I think slow growth could well suppress demand for 2+ years. Efficiencies aside, the demand for energy always increases as society expands, absent external economic forces.

Energy demand has, since the start of industrialization, always increased as societies / economic activity expanded, yes. The salient point for me is, when will investors deem fossil fuels too high a risk? Shocks, such as the current price war, could hasten that insight, or so I would hope, along with increased investment in cleaner, sustainable, and less risky energy sources.

So, I am looking for breaking points, when risk assessments radically change, the FF giants are increasingly suspected of sitting on trillions in stranded assets, and the herd finally, finally changes direction, even if that entails some months of economic pain. That is to say, if the House of Saud and Putin and their price war accelerate that process - absolutely, more power to them! And if economic powerhouses that didn't learn their lesson in time have a heavy struggle ahead, I find it couldn't happen to a nicer, more deserving set of crooks.

 

[joaquinmiller]

I don't put much stock in my ability to foretell the future, and I think slow growth could well suppress demand for 2+ years. Efficiencies aside, the demand for energy always increases as society expands, absent external economic forces.

Energy demand has, since the start of industrialization, always increased as societies / economic activity expanded, yes. The salient point for me is, when will investors deem fossil fuels too high a risk? Shocks, such as the current price war, could hasten that insight, or so I would hope, along with increased investment in cleaner, sustainable, and less risky energy sources.

So, I am looking for breaking points, when risk assessments radically change, the FF giants are increasingly suspected of sitting on trillions in stranded assets, and the herd finally, finally changes direction, even if that entails some months of economic pain. That is to say, if the House of Saud and Putin and their price war accelerate that process - absolutely, more power to them! And if economic powerhouses that didn't learn their lesson in time have a heavy struggle ahead, I find it couldn't happen to a nicer, more deserving set of crooks.

And of course, it's not just the raw numbers of social expansion, the per person energy consumption increases as well. I don't think the breaking point happens until an unknown sector replaces the FF giants in the economic and political power structure. Perhaps the likeliest way for that change to happen, abruptly, will be terrorist attacks on energy infrastructure. It's ubiquitous, vulnerable, and has the potential for catastrophic damage.

 

[Manonthestreet]

How long can a price war be sustained with sinking demand.....seems suicidal to me

 

[joaquinmiller]

How long can a price war be sustained with sinking demand.....seems suicidal to me

Or murderous. Price wars don't happen when demand is rising.

 

[Olde Europe]

And of course, it's not just the raw numbers of social expansion, the per person energy consumption increases as well. I don't think the breaking point happens until an unknown sector replaces the FF giants in the economic and political power structure. Perhaps the likeliest way for that change to happen, abruptly, will be terrorist attacks on energy infrastructure. It's ubiquitous, vulnerable, and has the potential for catastrophic damage.

I see your point - am not necessarily convinced, though. For as long as the FF giants sit on mountains of money, they will not be displaced in the power structure, and the occasional terrorist attack, while a nuisance and causing damage, will not likely get it done. That's why I am looking to investors, primarily. If they choose, for whatever reasons, to shirk the FF giants, they will be done. That's at least part of what is happening to coal, and crude will be next on the list. At least, they should be.

 

[BrokeLoser]

The Trump recession is here. It was hiding in plain sight before as burgeoning debt which is now going nuclear.

Trump's answer to the recession is to go nuclear on debt and slash payroll tax.

If Donald Trump slashes taxes further the debt growth will go to > 10 x GDP growth as the GDP slows to zero or goes negative.

Taxes will dive from loss of payroll taxes and from the decline in economic activity. The budget deficit could double to $2 Trillion.

This was always the danger of Trump's debt-fueled economy.

Trump's biography never progressed beyond chapter 11.

Donald Trump is sick and he has infected Uncle Sam.

Filthy Leftists can't lecture about debt, deficit spending, decency or morality...Do you realize how retarded you sound when you try?

 

[berg80]

The Trump recession is here. It was hiding in plain sight before as burgeoning debt which is now going nuclear.

Trump's answer to the recession is to go nuclear on debt and slash payroll tax.

If Donald Trump slashes taxes further the debt growth will go to > 10 x GDP growth as the GDP slows to zero or goes negative.

Taxes will dive from loss of payroll taxes and from the decline in economic activity. The budget deficit could double to $2 Trillion.

This was always the danger of Trump's debt-fueled economy.

Trump's biography never progressed beyond chapter 11.

Donald Trump is sick and he has infected Uncle Sam.

Have you seen any estimates for what the 2020 deficit will be? I suspect it may exceed $1.5T.

 

[berg80]

Filthy Leftists can't lecture about debt, deficit spending

Why not. Check the record on deficits. Just don't lie about who is responsible for the size of the deficit during Obama's first term since he got left holding Bush's bag.

 

[joaquinmiller]

How long can a price war be sustained with sinking demand.....seems suicidal to me

Or murderous. Price wars don't happen when demand is rising.

Not that anyone cares, but I was full of crap on that one. When a new market opens, or when a new competitor tries to penetrate a market, you get price wars out the ying-yang.