Zone1 "Does anybody really love anyone at all"

[ding]

Uhmmmm? The atheist is likely as materialistic but not needing of a religion.

History says otherwise. So does logic. To you, all there is is the material. You dismiss a higher order of man. Atheism proceeds on the belief that all there is is the satisfaction of material needs and primitive impulses. So logic says atheism places more value on material needs than on spiritual needs. History tells us that the atheistic nations of the 20th century made all of their proclamations about man's material needs.

The more materialistic man becomes the less satisfied he becomes. More is never enough. Besides, to an atheist, what more is there than the material?

 

[Donald H]

Again, you are arguing against natural selection by dismissing religion as being beneficial to man.

I could try to make a case on religion NOT being beneficial to man. And I've already told you that natural selection isn't even close to the same time scale of any of the world's religions!

I couldn't make the case against Christianity because we're not there yet, even though we're close. The world's greatest thinkers are pretty convinced that we won't make another mere thousand years. Most of the others that have come and gone; the evidence is in.

 

[ding]

maybe the reasons for needing a religion will change.

You'd have to know the reasons first, right? I don't believe you do.

But please do tell me what conditions will change. No more wars? No more hunger? No more injustice? What's going to change?

 

[ding]

I think you realize your mistake in equating the need for a religion, to 'natural selection' and functional advantage.

It's not a need. It's an observation. It's not like I'm the first to discover it. Religion serves a purpose no other agency can. That's why it exists. It's not magic. It's not a mind control conspiracy.

 

[ding]

No religions have held up for millions of years so that we could find out.

You mean every society since the beginning of man, overwhelmingly believing in a higher power than man, isn't enough data to extrapolate from?

 

[ding]

I could try to make a case on religion NOT being beneficial to man. And I've already told you that natural selection isn't even close to the same time scale of any of the world's religions!

I couldn't make the case against Christianity because we're not there yet, even though we're close. The world's greatest thinkers are pretty convinced that we won't make another mere thousand years. Most of the others that have come and gone; the evidence is in.

You can make any argument you want, it won't change anything. It's going to be what it's going to be regardless of what you or I say or want it to be. Personally I don't see suffering ending anytime soon, so I don't see much changing. But it's only been a 10,000 year trend, right?

 

[Donald H]

It's not a need. It's an observation. It's not like I'm the first to discover it. Religion serves a purpose no other agency can. That's why it exists. It's not magic. It's not a mind control conspiracy.

Have you observed how a religion has been an influence on 'natural selection'?

The churches influence has only declined over the last thousand years. Natural selection is working to eliminate religions.

 

[JustAGuy1]

These are the words or a paraphrase thereof to a song I heard in the 80s or 90s.

But I found myself asking this Q a long time ago, maybe b4 the song came out, can't recall.

You see the high divorce rates, the acrimony during divorce proceedings, you see all the violence and then you look at the Christian communities, both C and P and you see all this selfishness, materialism.. not helping the poor much or at all

and you ask this Q (in OP)

People here at the forums, and this is what prompted my Q here, don't even listen to one another. They think they know it all already, and boy, don't be part of a Church (or "church") that doesn't believe EXACTLY as that person does! OMG! Total deafness ensues!

Now I know people here will pounce on that and say that I am one of the worst offenders. But no, I am objectively NOT. And also there is this pesky little truth: I do indeed belong to the Church Christ established. I can provide much evidence to support that contention, and yet... again, few listen to me or anyone else. And then there is also this: While I may not listen to what someone says when/if I perceive it is WRONG, I do listen to sincerely held assertions and commentary when I perceive I am dealing with a person of good will. If i think that the person in question is being deceptive in any way... yes, I ditch that person until he or she asks a valid question or appears to be seeking knowledge/truth.

This is you son.

, don't be part of a Church (or "church") that doesn't believe EXACTLY as that person does! OMG! Total deafness ensues!

 

[JustAGuy1]

You are asking this question to what end result?

Because if you know the scriptures (as you claim to do) you know the answer to your questions already.(really spelled out clearly)

So...what fruit do you expect by asking on this forum?

What do you hope to gain?

The current religious environment has been so precisely predicted its kinda ridiculous to rail against it....but you are doing so anyway. Why?

Or are your claims of superior scripture knowledge not as much as hyped?

He sincerely believes he has the only truth.

 

[Donald H]

History says otherwise. So does logic. To you, all there is is the material. You dismiss a higher order of man. Atheism proceeds on the belief that all there is is the satisfaction of material needs and primitive impulses. So logic says atheism places more value on material needs than on spiritual needs. History tells us that the atheistic nations of the 20th century made all of their proclamations about man's material needs.

The more materialistic man becomes the less satisfied he becomes. More is never enough. Besides, to an atheist, what more is there than the material?

There is science's and there is our search for answers. Not like the Christian's blind acceptance of answers taken from a book full of fantasy tales.

Can a man live in the belly of a big fish for days? Let's find an answer.

Yes, it's settled! The god said he could in his bible.

 

[1miseryindex]

Looks like you're looking for love in all the wrong places.

shows what u know about me

not looking for love at all in the human realm

 

[otto105]

shows what u know about me

not looking for love at all in the human realm

I refer to a song and you admit a love for a space alien.

 

[ding]

I refer to a song and you admit a love for a space alien.

Is love just an electrochemical reaction in your brain? Or is it an extant attribute of reality that exists independent of man?

 

[ding]

Have you observed how a religion has been an influence on 'natural selection'?

I never said religion influences natural selection. The principle of natural selection informs us that religion - or belief in a higher power - provide a functional advantage that no other agency can fill.

 

[ding]

The churches influence has only declined over the last thousand years. Natural selection is working to eliminate religions.

And yet they don't abandon their belief in a higher power or their spirituality. I feel sorry for people like you with no spirituality. You have nothing to lean on when you are alone.

 

[ding]

There is science's and there is our search for answers. Not like the Christian's blind acceptance of answers taken from a book full of fantasy tales.

Can a man live in the belly of a big fish for days? Let's find an answer.

Yes, it's settled! The god said he could in his bible.

That you dismiss ancient wisdoms - that were passed down orally for thousands of years - for no other reason than you failed to make an honest attempt at understanding them only hurts you. For me it sharpened my intellect and turned on all the learning centers of my mind. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to be intellectually dead. I think I understand where some of your hate and bitterness comes from. Which is why you are here making these ridiculous posts. You're trying to take your frustrations out on others. But I think it is having an opposite effect. It's just harming you more.

I think you need to keep in mind that these accounts will be around long after you are gone and have left nothing behind that anyone will remember you by. You came from dust and shall return to dust. Whereas these accounts will live on.

 

[Donald H]

That you dismiss ancient wisdoms - that were passed down orally for thousands of years - for no other reason than you failed to make an honest attempt at understanding them only hurts you.

As the bible stories became impossibilities, the Christian apologists invented deep mystical meanings for them, one by one.

Example: Which has deep meaning and which is hogwash?

He lived in the belly of a big fish for days.
or
The chicken crossed the road.

At least the story about the chicken can live on forever and not be found to be quite impossible!

For me it sharpened my intellect and turned on all the learning centers of my mind.

I consider you to be quite clever for a Christian, but satisfyingly quick to take the bait.

I can't imagine how horrible it would be to be intellectually dead.

Accepting Darwinian evolution was the Catholic churches attempt to raise the flock up out of intellectual deadness.
I think you are a little behind the curve on not being able to reconcile the churches enlightenment on accepting the real world. As with most Catholics, you will secretly cling to hope that there is literal truth in the bibles.

I think I understand where some of your hate and bitterness comes from. Which is why you are here making these ridiculous posts. You're trying to take your frustrations out on others. But I think it is having an opposite effect. It's just harming you more.

You came from dust and shall return to dust. Whereas these accounts will live on.

I understand that your set of religious beliefs are in flux and nothing can be settled in your mind, as regards an interpretation of your bible. Please don''t take that as an insult. It's meant to be a compliment..

Talking about it is good!

 

[Donald H]

That you dismiss ancient wisdoms - that were passed down orally for thousands of years - for no other reason than you failed to make an honest attempt at understanding them only hurts you.

If there was a deeper meaning in the tale of living in the big fish's belly then that point was lost on the flock completely, up until modern science interfered and enlightened a few of the brightest less than a hundred years ago.

The % of literal believing Christians in America today is 'still' alarmingly high!! Do you secretly want to be one of them?

 

[Donald H]

And yet they don't abandon their belief in a higher power or their spirituality.

But maybe they've all abandoned their beliefs in a higher power, except for our one literal believing Christian who is the only one to maintain total faith in the bibles.

You've all become 'conditional' believers.

I feel sorry for people like you with no spirituality. You have nothing to lean on when you are alone.

I think that you are constantly needing to 'lean' on something more than the natural world around you.

 

[ding]

As the bible stories became impossibilities, the Christian apologists invented deep mystical meanings for them, one by one.

Example: Which has deep meaning and which is hogwash?

He lived in the belly of a big fish for days.
or
The chicken crossed the road.

At least the story about the chicken can live on forever and not be found to be quite impossible!

I consider you to be quite clever for a Christian, but satisfyingly quick to take the bait.

Accepting Darwinian evolution was the Catholic churches attempt to raise the flock up out of intellectual deadness.
I think you are a little behind the curve on not being able to reconcile the churches enlightenment on accepting the real world. As with most Catholics, you will secretly cling to hope that there is literal truth in the bibles.

I understand that your set of religious beliefs are in flux and nothing can be settled in your mind, as regards an interpretation of your bible. Please don''t take that as an insult. It's meant to be a compliment..

Talking about it is good!

That's because you read them like a child.