...the tic of using 'Nazi' references ....

Chillicothe

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Feb 14, 2021
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I did not want to sidetrack that thead about the moke in need of a new heart. I had instigated an exchange about the too frequent usage of Nazi references and symbolism as tactic to make a discussion point.

I think it is inappropriate. And said so. And then there were a couple more exchanges.....and that motivated me to NOT mess up that thread with a side-discussion.

So, let's Tee-it-up here.
My positon: Saying a mandate to encourage vaccinations, or masking, or social disancing is "Nazi"-like, or "Hitler"-like, is inappropriate and wrongheaded.

It trivializes the staggering human tragedy that the Nazi's perpetrated 70+ years ago. It takes the immensity of those horrible deaths.....and diminishes them to fit a nickel-dime polemic today over one minor political point or another.

In my view it is disrespectful to the millions and millions of people who died as a result of Naziism....not to mention the millions and million of family members who experience the loss of loved ones.

And then, in reading my newsfeed from today's 'The Hill'....I see I am not alone.
And more importantly, my belief is better carried by some one far more qualified than me to speak of it.

Here, read this, from The Hill:




TheHill.com

Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests​

BY MAUREEN BRESLIN - 01/27/22 01:01 PM EST 0





Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests

© Getty Images

Margot Friedlaender, a survivor of the Holocaust who turned 100-years-old in November, on Thursday condemned the co-opting of the yellow Star of David patch, which Jewish people were forced to wear during the era of Nazi Germany, by anti-vaccine protestors.

Speaking to the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, Friedlaender reminding people of the importance of remembering and honoring the victims of the mass genocide, Reuters reported.


"Incredulous, I had to watch at the age of 100 years, how symbols of our exclusion by the Nazis, such as the so-called 'Judenstern' [the German word for the yellow badges], are shamelessly used on the open street by the new enemies of democracy, to present themselves — whilst living in the middle of a democracy—as victims," she said, speaking on the 77th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland.

"Today, I see the memory of what happened being abused for political reasons, sometimes even derided and trampled all over," she added, per Reuters.

Friedlaender's mother and brother were both killed in Auschwitz, and Friedlaender herself survived a concentration camp in modern-day Czech Republic.
Reuters reported that the Israeli government published a report Thursday accusing anti-vaccine protesters of stoking global anti-Semitism.

There have been several reports of anti-vaxxers around the world using the yellow badges during protests, in an effort to compare COVID-19 public health regulations to Nazis singling out Jews for persecution."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Read the whole enchilada...here:
 
Today's angry libs are the closest thing to Nazi's we have seen in America in 150 years....
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What did you think of the reportage in 'The Hill'? ...... after you had read it?
Can you recognize the point Ms. Frielander is attempting to make?
 
America did not commit the Holocaust, we ended it. American citizens need not feel compelled to put the actions of others on a pedestal that cannot be touched. Sounds like an autocratic attempt at censorship in the name of preserving victimhood.
 
I did not want to sidetrack that thead about the moke in need of a new heart. I had instigated an exchange about the too frequent usage of Nazi references and symbolism as tactic to make a discussion point.

I think it is inappropriate. And said so. And then there were a couple more exchanges.....and that motivated me to NOT mess up that thread with a side-discussion.

So, let's Tee-it-up here.

My positon: Saying a mandate to encourage vaccinations, or masking, or social disancing is "Nazi"-like, or "Hitler"-like, is inappropriate and wrongheaded.

It trivializes the staggering human tragedy that the Nazi's perpetrated 70+ years ago. It takes the immensity of those horrible deaths.....and diminishes them to fit a nickel-dime polemic today over one minor political point or another.

In my view it is disrespectful to the millions and millions of people who died as a result of Naziism....not to mention the millions and million of family members who experience the loss of loved ones.

And then, in reading my newsfeed from today's 'The Hill'....I see I am not alone.
And more importantly, my belief is better carried by some one far more qualified than me to speak of it.

Here, read this, from The Hill:




TheHill.com

Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests​

BY MAUREEN BRESLIN - 01/27/22 01:01 PM EST 0





Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests

© Getty Images

Margot Friedlaender, a survivor of the Holocaust who turned 100-years-old in November, on Thursday condemned the co-opting of the yellow Star of David patch, which Jewish people were forced to wear during the era of Nazi Germany, by anti-vaccine protestors.

Speaking to the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, Friedlaender reminding people of the importance of remembering and honoring the victims of the mass genocide, Reuters reported.

"Incredulous, I had to watch at the age of 100 years, how symbols of our exclusion by the Nazis, such as the so-called 'Judenstern' [the German word for the yellow badges], are shamelessly used on the open street by the new enemies of democracy, to present themselves — whilst living in the middle of a democracy—as victims," she said, speaking on the 77th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland.

"Today, I see the memory of what happened being abused for political reasons, sometimes even derided and trampled all over," she added, per Reuters.

Friedlaender's mother and brother were both killed in Auschwitz, and Friedlaender herself survived a concentration camp in modern-day Czech Republic.
Reuters reported that the Israeli government published a report Thursday accusing anti-vaccine protesters of stoking global anti-Semitism.

There have been several reports of anti-vaxxers around the world using the yellow badges during protests, in an effort to compare COVID-19 public health regulations to Nazis singling out Jews for persecution."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Read the whole enchilada...here:

I'm so used to the "Nazi/Fascist" hyperbole now that it doesn't even register with me. The Right has done the same thing to those words as the Left has done with "racism". Amazing how similar and counterproductive the two ends of the spectrum can be, trivializing and diluting, damn near mocking, so much intergenerational pain and suffering for cynical, perceived political advantage.

Our language has been wrecked by this bone-headed intellectual laziness and shallow hyperbole, and that plays a role in the destruction of communication, collaboration and innovation. Nothing anyone says really carries any meaning at this point.

The decay continues, self-inflicted.
 
Not vaccinated = Jewish could also be meant as a positive statement in support of Jewish people.

Do many Americans not consider their refusal of the vaccines as a matter or principle and pride?
 
I did not want to sidetrack that thead about the moke in need of a new heart. I had instigated an exchange about the too frequent usage of Nazi references and symbolism as tactic to make a discussion point.

I think it is inappropriate. And said so. And then there were a couple more exchanges.....and that motivated me to NOT mess up that thread with a side-discussion.

So, let's Tee-it-up here.

My positon: Saying a mandate to encourage vaccinations, or masking, or social disancing is "Nazi"-like, or "Hitler"-like, is inappropriate and wrongheaded.

It trivializes the staggering human tragedy that the Nazi's perpetrated 70+ years ago. It takes the immensity of those horrible deaths.....and diminishes them to fit a nickel-dime polemic today over one minor political point or another.

In my view it is disrespectful to the millions and millions of people who died as a result of Naziism....not to mention the millions and million of family members who experience the loss of loved ones.

And then, in reading my newsfeed from today's 'The Hill'....I see I am not alone.
And more importantly, my belief is better carried by some one far more qualified than me to speak of it.

Here, read this, from The Hill:




TheHill.com

Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests​

BY MAUREEN BRESLIN - 01/27/22 01:01 PM EST 0





Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests

© Getty Images

Margot Friedlaender, a survivor of the Holocaust who turned 100-years-old in November, on Thursday condemned the co-opting of the yellow Star of David patch, which Jewish people were forced to wear during the era of Nazi Germany, by anti-vaccine protestors.

Speaking to the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, Friedlaender reminding people of the importance of remembering and honoring the victims of the mass genocide, Reuters reported.

"Incredulous, I had to watch at the age of 100 years, how symbols of our exclusion by the Nazis, such as the so-called 'Judenstern' [the German word for the yellow badges], are shamelessly used on the open street by the new enemies of democracy, to present themselves — whilst living in the middle of a democracy—as victims," she said, speaking on the 77th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland.

"Today, I see the memory of what happened being abused for political reasons, sometimes even derided and trampled all over," she added, per Reuters.

Friedlaender's mother and brother were both killed in Auschwitz, and Friedlaender herself survived a concentration camp in modern-day Czech Republic.
Reuters reported that the Israeli government published a report Thursday accusing anti-vaccine protesters of stoking global anti-Semitism.

There have been several reports of anti-vaxxers around the world using the yellow badges during protests, in an effort to compare COVID-19 public health regulations to Nazis singling out Jews for persecution."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Read the whole enchilada...here:

Nazism is universally seen as evil. Therefore, if you can label your political opponent as one, it gives you an added edge in propaganda.

So who were the Nazis? Were they some military/ideological group in a bubble never to be seen again? Or were they simply a natural creation of the political evolution that makes us what we are today?

I say the later, which makes it all the more troubling. They were humans just like us, making us capable of the same.

Therefore, ignoring the Nazi regime and never comparing anyone to it again, seems most dangerous and irresponsible.

So what makes someone a Nazi?

Here is a political spectrum scale trying to divide the various political ideologies

1643314256655.png


But what is the spectrum based upon? It does not say. Why has "the right" been given the Nazi regime as one of their own when the term Nazi means National Socialist? This scale I think was designed by those on the Left for propaganda purposes, and has been accepted hook, line, and sinker by most thanks to our Left wing media and academia. For you see, they understand the need to try and distance the National Socialists from their Left wing roots.

For me, the issue is centralized control. So if the scale measures centralized control, the political scale would look more like this

1643314410033.png


Like it or not, Hitler was a cutting edge progressive in many ways. He was a cutting edge environmentalist. For example, the Nazi soldiers were ordered to plant more trees. They were the first in Europe to establish nature reserves and order the protection of hedgerows and other wildlife habitats. They were horrified at the idea of hydroelectric dams on the Rhine. And Hitler and other leading Nazis were vegetarian as they passed numerous laws protecting the rights of animals. Herman Goring announced and end to the "unbearable torture and suffering in animal experiments and those who still think they can treat animals as inanimate property will be sent off to a concentration camp"

So how can those who loved animals so much, treat human beings so terribly? This example of the kind of Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde reality of human nature and we ignore it by refusing to ever make comparisons to life today at our peril.

How Jews were treated in Nazi Germany is also very informative, and should give us all a lesson today on things to watch for. Why were the Jews persecuted so? And how were they persecuted? These questions are key to preventing it from happening again, which it will.

Historian Gotz Aly wrote a book called "Hitlers Handouts". In the book, he made a rather persuasive argument as to how a large centralized government gave rise to the Jewish extermination.

For example, Hitler picked on a minority population who was economically affluent. Jews over the centuries were often hated for their higher socioeconomic status, so having the government target them gave a great many satisfaction, much like how the Left often targets the top 1% in the US. In fact, during the Occupy Wall Street protests in the US, there were many signs that were anti-Semitic such as, "Jewish Banker go home to Israel", etc. This Jewish hatred is timeless.

Hitler simply rounded up all the Jews, took their wealth, and sent them off to die. They were a minority so who would miss them, and they had a great deal of wealth to bolster their economy, which they did.

Jews were then dehumanized in the media by comparing them to vermin. Dehumanization is key to genocide. So long as people don't view others as their equal, they will be treated like animals. And what do we do with animals? We cage them in zoos, use them as beasts of burden, and kill and eat them., etc. Today, we see this with the unborn. They are not referred to as unborn babies, but a fetus. And we see this in Islam as their opponents are regarded as "infidels", etc.

But I think the most revealing aspect of the Jewish persecution was the requirement for them to wear a Star of David. After all, if we are persuaded by the government and the media they control to hate a certain people, how do we know who to hate? Without the Star of David, it was near impossible. That's why dividing the population by race is so useful. Just look at the color of their skin to know, and no Star of David will be needed.

This is why I am most concerned with political leaders today constantly talking about black and white. Do we not understand we have the same blood running through us as those in the Nazi regime? Centralized all powerful government in combination with this race Balkanization of society is to be feared above all.

Remember, the ones in power are the only ones capable of fascism.

And genocide on a large scale in an efficient manner without a large centralized government is impossible.

Just ask those being targeted by China today for genocide.

There is very little difference between a Nazi and someone from the CCP.
 
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Look, what follows may seem to be overdriving the nail.
I get that.
But I so rarely get such public validation of my sentiments that I feel a little boosterism is not unwarranted.

As explained in the OP, this thread exists so as not to detract from another thread where this issue had become a sidebar. And, because after that 'sidebar' business unfolded I saw reportage in this morning's The Hill that followed the line of my thinking.....i.e., the Nazi-fetish that some RWNJ posters use to advance their polemic is inappropriate.


And now there is this reportage from today's Daily Beast:

"Holocaust Survivor Sidney Zoltak Has a Message for Anti-Vaxxers Exploiting His Trauma"

A taster:
"In recent months, a number of Americans—mostly on the conservative right—have compared taking precautions against the spread of COVID-19 to the Holocaust, reappropriating everything from swastikas to the yellow Star of David as symbols of their so-called oppression.


Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene said it was akin to “a time in history where people were told to wear a gold star… put in trains and taken to gas chambers in Nazi Germany.”
Upon learning that Washington, D.C., would be requiring proof of vaccination to patronize its businesses, Republican Rep. Warren Davidson tweeted an image of a Nazi document with the caption, “This has been done before. #DoNotComply.”

All of this is infuriating to Holocaust survivor Sidney Zoltak.
“It takes an awful lot of what we would call chutzpah, because anybody who did not live through German occupation in Europe for any length of time would not know what the Holocaust was. Among my community of 7,000 Jews, less than 70 survived. And among the survivors, none of them were my classmates or friends,” he remembers.
-------------------------------------------------------


Which is exactly my point. These American internet chatterati employ their Nazi-fetishes of swastikas, Hitler, and Holocaust imagery to advance a polemic over some nickel/dime internet political point.

It is callous, cynical, and ignorant of history. It trivializes the deaths of 50 million people. Many of them cruelly 'exterminated' in death camps specifically designed and intended to 'exterminate' as many people as possible.

And the chatterati think that the resulting piles of bones is a rightful platform for them to displaly their Nazi-fetish and complain about getting a vaccine.

It is ridiculous. It is shameful. It embarrasses America.

 
Look, what follows may seem to be overdriving the nail.
I get that.
But I so rarely get such public validation of my sentiments that I feel a little boosterism is not unwarranted.

As explained in the OP, this thread exists so as not to detract from another thread where this issue had become a sidebar. And, because after that 'sidebar' business unfolded I saw reportage in this morning's The Hill that followed the line of my thinking.....i.e., the Nazi-fetish that some RWNJ posters use to advance their polemic is inappropriate.


And now there is this reportage from today's Daily Beast:


"Holocaust Survivor Sidney Zoltak Has a Message for Anti-Vaxxers Exploiting His Trauma"

A taster:
"In recent months, a number of Americans—mostly on the conservative right—have compared taking precautions against the spread of COVID-19 to the Holocaust, reappropriating everything from swastikas to the yellow Star of David as symbols of their so-called oppression.


Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene said it was akin to “a time in history where people were told to wear a gold star… put in trains and taken to gas chambers in Nazi Germany.”
Upon learning that Washington, D.C., would be requiring proof of vaccination to patronize its businesses, Republican Rep. Warren Davidson tweeted an image of a Nazi document with the caption, “This has been done before. #DoNotComply.”

All of this is infuriating to Holocaust survivor Sidney Zoltak.
“It takes an awful lot of what we would call chutzpah, because anybody who did not live through German occupation in Europe for any length of time would not know what the Holocaust was. Among my community of 7,000 Jews, less than 70 survived. And among the survivors, none of them were my classmates or friends,” he remembers.
-------------------------------------------------------


Which is exactly my point. These American internet chatterati employ their Nazi-fetishes of swastikas, Hitler, and Holocaust imagery to advance a polemic over some nickel/dime internet political point.

It is callous, cynical, and ignorant of history. It trivializes the deaths of 50 million people. Many of them cruelly 'exterminated' in death camps specifically designed and intended to 'exterminate' as many people as possible.

And the chatterati think that the resulting piles of bones is a rightful platform for them to displaly their Nazi-fetish and complain about getting a vaccine.

It is ridiculous. It is shameful. It embarrasses America.
You whining about Americans exercising free speech embarrasses America more. Endlessly playing the victim marginalizes the sacrifices that ended the Holocaust.
 
You whining about Americans exercising free speech embarrasses America more. Endlessly playing the victim marginalizes the sacrifices that ended the Holocaust.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, good poster Al, it is regrettable that you cannot or will not recognize the RWNJ fetishizing of what Nazis did, what the Holocaust means.

We as Americans are ill-advised to hide behind our 1st Amendment flag in order to disrespect the tragedy of Hitlerism, of Naziism. That incalculable horror must not be hooked up to pull your nickel/dime petty political beefs.

By the way, today that MAGA-Hatter that wore the "Camp Auschwitz" tee-shirt as he broke into the Capitol of the United States, well that radical RightWinger plead guilty to the charges leviied against him for his January 6th attack.

So be it.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, good poster Al, it is regrettable that you cannot or will not recognize the RWNJ fetishizing of what Nazis did, what the Holocaust means.

We as Americans are ill-advised to hide behind our 1st Amendment flag in order to disrespect the tragedy of Hitlerism, of Naziism. That incalculable horror must not be hooked up to pull your nickel/dime petty political beefs.

By the way, today that MAGA-Hatter that wore the "Camp Auschwitz" tee-shirt as he broke into the Capitol of the United States, well that radical RightWinger plead guilty to the charges leviied against him for his January 6th attack.

So be it.
Yet lefties use the terms with impunity. Seems a lot like selectively being offended. Not my problem.

As Americans we are ill served by allowing words, iconography, and the like be monopolized by any one. That is the antithesis of freedom.

Your beef is with Germany and what they did, leave me out of it. My ancestors were on the liberators side, you're welcome.
 
"As Americans we are ill served by allowing words, iconography, and the like be monopolized by any one. That is the antithesis of freedom.
Your beef is with Germany and what they did, leave me out of it. My ancestors were on the liberators side, you're welcome."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As previously stated, neither hiding behind the American 1st Amendment's freedom of expression or some other mutated sense of "freedom" should serve as a rationale for fetishizing Nazis in American political polemics.

And, I for one, am quite content to let those now dead Nazis monopolize the swastika, SS bolts, and other such fetish finery. And of course, we'll note the American dead-ender White Supremacy movement playing 'sinister soldier' with 'em too.

But for the history-ignorant keyboard jockeys to attempt to anchor their arguments in Hitler references, Reichstag references, Josef Mengele references, and Holocaust boxcar references, well, mein freund, that merde' is...to be kind....gauche'.
It is for rubes.

Not to mention it is an embarrassment to American discourse and sensibilities for all the reasons those Holocaust survivors in the two linked articles state.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As previously stated, neither hiding behind the American 1st Amendment's freedom of expression or some other mutated sense of "freedom" should serve as a rationale for fetishizing Nazis in American political polemics.

And, I for one, am quite content to let those now dead Nazis monopolize the swastika, SS bolts, and other such fetish finery. And of course, we'll note the American dead-ender White Supremacy movement playing 'sinister soldier' with 'em too.

But for the history-ignorant keyboard jockeys to attempt to anchor their arguments in Hitler references, Reichstag references, Josef Mengele references, and Holocaust boxcar references, well, mein freund, that merde' is...to be kind....gauche'.
It is for rubes.

Not to mention it is an embarrassment to American discourse and sensibilities for all the reasons those Holocaust survivors in the two linked articles state.
There is no need for 'rationale', as it their right to express themselves as they see fit. This is your crusade, leave everyone else out of it.

The embarrassment here is you attempting to weaken American freedoms over the actions of another country.
 
This is your crusade, leave everyone else out of it.

The embarrassment here is you attempting to weaken American freedoms over the actions of another country.
Well, some...of your "everyone else" come on to this chatroom and attempt to buttress their arguments by resorting to their Nazi-fetish fantasies.
I was mildly sure you should have noted that.

And lastly, "American freedsoms"???
Is that the hilll you want to die on?
Your freedom to trivialize, discount, maybe even deny (?) the evil, the atrocities, the death, injury, and destruction.....caused by Hitler, and his Nazis?
And then, you think such trivializing is an effecivet tactic for advancing your political arguments?

THAT......is your idea of what you think "American freedoms" should be?

Well, I'll be gobsmacked! But you be you.


ps......go read those comments from the Holocaust survivors. See what they think of your "freedom" to discount their reality.
 
I did not want to sidetrack that thead about the moke in need of a new heart. I had instigated an exchange about the too frequent usage of Nazi references and symbolism as tactic to make a discussion point.

I think it is inappropriate. And said so. And then there were a couple more exchanges.....and that motivated me to NOT mess up that thread with a side-discussion.

So, let's Tee-it-up here.

My positon: Saying a mandate to encourage vaccinations, or masking, or social disancing is "Nazi"-like, or "Hitler"-like, is inappropriate and wrongheaded.

It trivializes the staggering human tragedy that the Nazi's perpetrated 70+ years ago. It takes the immensity of those horrible deaths.....and diminishes them to fit a nickel-dime polemic today over one minor political point or another.

In my view it is disrespectful to the millions and millions of people who died as a result of Naziism....not to mention the millions and million of family members who experience the loss of loved ones.

And then, in reading my newsfeed from today's 'The Hill'....I see I am not alone.
And more importantly, my belief is better carried by some one far more qualified than me to speak of it.

Here, read this, from The Hill:




TheHill.com

Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests​

BY MAUREEN BRESLIN - 01/27/22 01:01 PM EST 0





Holocaust survivor condemns use of yellow star at COVID-19 protests

© Getty Images

Margot Friedlaender, a survivor of the Holocaust who turned 100-years-old in November, on Thursday condemned the co-opting of the yellow Star of David patch, which Jewish people were forced to wear during the era of Nazi Germany, by anti-vaccine protestors.

Speaking to the European Parliament in Brussels, Belgium, Friedlaender reminding people of the importance of remembering and honoring the victims of the mass genocide, Reuters reported.

"Incredulous, I had to watch at the age of 100 years, how symbols of our exclusion by the Nazis, such as the so-called 'Judenstern' [the German word for the yellow badges], are shamelessly used on the open street by the new enemies of democracy, to present themselves — whilst living in the middle of a democracy—as victims," she said, speaking on the 77th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland.

"Today, I see the memory of what happened being abused for political reasons, sometimes even derided and trampled all over," she added, per Reuters.

Friedlaender's mother and brother were both killed in Auschwitz, and Friedlaender herself survived a concentration camp in modern-day Czech Republic.
Reuters reported that the Israeli government published a report Thursday accusing anti-vaccine protesters of stoking global anti-Semitism.

There have been several reports of anti-vaxxers around the world using the yellow badges during protests, in an effort to compare COVID-19 public health regulations to Nazis singling out Jews for persecution."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Read the whole enchilada...here:


The reality is that people want to say "fascist" so they say "Nazi" because it's what they understand. Probably a lot of people don't have that much knowledge of fascism other than the Nazis, so they equate the two.

Like when they see Cyrillic they assume it's Russian.
 

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