The Bible Tells Us When Jesus Returns - Between Tisha B'Av and Day of Atonement 2029

[teddyearp]

You're so afraid to answer these questions specifically...

No I am not. I am not afraid at all of answering those question, in fact, I have already answered those questions many many times in this thread. All to the affirmative, except for the last one. Do you not know how to read?

Again, let me say it again so you and all can read:

ALL TO THE AFFIRMATIVE, EXCEPT FOR THE LAST ONE!

Now that I have answered your questions over and over again, when do you plan on answering mine? Or are you too afraid to expose yourself?

In case you have forgotten, here it is again; thrice:

Do You accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, as the Lamb of God who was the Passover sacrifice for your sins? The first born without sin, given by the Father so that you may be saved?

 

[teddyearp]

Parture if I come to you hungry and you have it within your means to feed me, will you?

 

[teddyearp]

Parture , if I come to you on a very cold day or night without a jacket, even though you consider me cast into hell and a sinner though you have an extra jacket and I ask you for your extra, will you refuse your extra jacket to me?

 

[Parture]

Parture if I come to you hungry and you have it within your means to feed me, will you?

Why do you reject the Apostles and Elders for the Church?

 

[Parture]

You're so afraid to answer these questions specifically...

No I am not. I am not afraid at all of answering those question, in fact, I have already answered those questions many many times in this thread. All to the affirmative, except for the last one. Do you not know how to read?

Again, let me say it again so you and all can read:

ALL TO THE AFFIRMATIVE, EXCEPT FOR THE LAST ONE!

Now that I have answered your questions over and over again, when do you plan on answering mine? Or are you too afraid to expose yourself?

In case you have forgotten, here it is again; thrice:

Do You accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, as the Lamb of God who was the Passover sacrifice for your sins? The first born without sin, given by the Father so that you may be saved?

This is the first time you said you agreed with all these questions. The questions you asked me are in the questions I asked you so why would you ask me the same questions you already know I believe?

 

[Parture]

No Christian should think you are a Christian while exhibiting hostility since Christians would not behave that way towards brothers and sisters in Christ, so that is why a person would believe you are not a Christian and therefore, going to Hell.

 

[Parture]

Now we can center on your issues, for you agreed with all 18 questions but reject the Apostles and Elders for the Church in a practical setting. Why is that? You're displaying your rigidness and hostility again by doing so.

Read Eph. 4.11.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers."

Elders are those who have been appointed by Apostles to take care of a church locality.

“According to the measure of the province which God appointed to us as a measure, to reach even unto you" (2 Cor. 10.13). "Appoint elders in every city" (Titus 1.5).

So we see here the Apostles work regionally. They are directly commissioned by God. And they appoint Elders to take care of church locality. This I call Biblocality a recently invented term in 2004 to describe the operations of the Apostles and Elders.

 

[Parture]

Wow, we are on page 2 of the largest threads on this forum.

 

[Parture]

Parture , if I come to you on a very cold day or night without a jacket, even though you consider me cast into hell and a sinner though you have an extra jacket and I ask you for your extra, will you refuse your extra jacket to me?

How can I give you a jacket if you are in Hell? Besides nobody is in Hell yet. Nor can anyone saved reach you in Hell. I don't even think in Hell you would need a jacket. Because you will be burning in the Lake of Fire.

The Bible says you would be forgotten, so I have no memory of your need for a jack, I have no memory of you.

 

[Parture]

Ted,

I am so glad you believe in the Trinity; OSAS Arminian; premillennialism; that Calvinists are not saved; women can be Apostles; Mary was born into sin; baptism is without or with water; gap restoration; tongues are only known languages; spiritual vs. carnal Christians, the latter not receiving the reward of returning with Christ to reign on earth; we are spirit/soul/body not spirit (soul)/body; the word of God is 66 books, no more no less; no escape from Hell once people go there; but sadly you didn't accept the Apostles and Elders in agreement with these questions. That sounds like a contradiction that you agree with these questions (even agree with the Apostles working regionally who appoint Elders of a church locality) but you don't accept the Apostles actually organizing and working in the agreement with these questions. How do you resolve that contradiction?

The Bible says be "not doubletongued" or doubleminded (1 Tim. 3.8).

 

[emilynghiem]

The Bible is clear, if you don't accept Christ you go to Hell.

I've already made it clear that I accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior, the lamb of God that was sacrificed for my sins. Have you?

All you've done here is condemn everyone to Hell.

Dear teddyearp Not only that but I got banned from that website Parture recommended.
Judged punished and labeled for
* answering questions yes that I agree to the Bible
* believing that Jesus is the Universal Messiah for all humanity
* forgiving if believers in Christ have differences so we can correct them
WITHOUT falsely accusing of being deniers of Christ or God's truth

I guess this fulfills Bible warnings that even brethren in Christ
will throw each other out of fellowships and be divided over each other.

We are supposed to resolve this by agreement in Christ as believers.

I will see if M.D. Rawlings can step in or someone who can mediate
this in Christ and figure out where we went wrong in coming across as
nonbelievers or whatever is causing this weird behavior.

If you have to make me the bad guy, that's fine.
Put me on trial publicly and let's get these issues resolved once and for all.

Sick of this when none of this is necessary.

First I find out that being prochoice when the ACA is not
makes it where I cannot be both a Constitutionalist or a Democrat,
because it is wrong to say Congress or Courts imposed an unconstitutional bias,
which I am told is not respecting Constitutional authority,
and it is wrong to say the ACA is anti-choice and excludes political beliefs
in conflict with Democrats claiming to be prochoice and the party of inclusion.

Now I am told I cannot be forgiving or believe that God is forgiving
and be a Christian. What???

I'm sorry, if I was already lost on "how can the ACA be prochoice"
now you've REALLY got me on how can I be so forgiving and
trusting in God to save all souls from hell that I am going to hell for it.

At least, in comparison, this makes the Democrats look sane.

I think this new thing wins the "crazymaking" award.

I will send a personal message to all the atheists I ever asked to forgive differences and try to
work with Christians to reach an understanding,
and apologize now that I know what it must feel like.
maybe a public letter of apology would be appropriate,
because this is truly mindblowing.

See other thread on being forced by that Christian website to deny
that I agree with them on the Bible, and being condemned to hell
for teaching that God's forgiveness is universal. Okay.....

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Parture
I find that your assumption to attack accuse slander and/or libel people FIRST
and then put them on the defense of their faith AFTER is only acceptable if you
are a nonbeliever and do not claim to follow God Christ and the laws thereunder.

By natural laws, we are treated as innocent until proven guilty, not
the other way, which is materialistic. People who have not full understanding
of equal justice may do so out of ignorance.

If you are ignorant of God's natural laws of justice
so much that you believe it is right to accuse first then demand proof otherwise,
then this is not consistent with someone claiming to know God through Christ.

All other Christians I know, when asked to rebuke properly by Matthew 18:15-20
agree to exchange objections and reasons, and to establish truth FIRST
BEFORE proclaiming or telling it unto the church.

You have failed to do so.

Please follow the scriptures that teach us to establish the truth first
among us as fellow believers,
or please admit you are not a believer in the Authority of Christ
to correct these wrongs, and that is why you act this way
because of YOUR lack of faith.

If you lack faith, that is forgiveable to a nonbeliever
especially gentiles who expect to see proof first before they believe.

So if you are one of these gentiles who does not believe
until it is proven to you, please admit this.

If you are a believer, then we as fellow believers
are supposed to reconcile in Christ by establishing agreement.

But this cannot be done if you are already accusing
me and TY of not being believers in the first place.

You have not proven your accusations first,
as TY and I both witness that we are fellow believers.

So please bring 2 or 3 witnesses here to establish
this truth that we are all believers, and then we
can have this discussion as EQUALS in Christ.

You are still accusing us as nonbelievers
and me as going to hell, so we cannot
even address the issues until we agree
that we are all believers in Christ.

Do you know anyone who can mediate?

 

[emilynghiem]

The Bible says be "not doubletongued" or doubleminded (1 Tim. 3.8).

Okay Parture so how can you be doubletongued and doubleminded?

The reason we rely on Christ Jesus for divine forgiveness
is that God can forgive that which man will hold on to and not let go and forgive.

So God's forgiveness is always greater than man's.

Now you are telling me that if I can forgive whatever you say TY or I am teaching wrongly
and we can forgive you,
but you are saying God cannot forgive us for what we are saying or teaching wrong.

You are implying that we can forgive things even greater than God can.
None of us is greater than God, that is blasphemous.

That makes no sense. God's love is greater than us combined as we are finite.

So if we can forgive these differences and TRUST that God corrects
them in Christ so NO ONE Is going to hell because these things can and will be corrected,
then surely God can forgive them.

Where YOU are double tongued is that you say you believe and forgive
but you don't believe and don't forgive.

I can read your spirit and TY spirit and tell you are sincere in wanting to establish truth.

But your insistence on unfair misjudgment of TY and of me is in error.

And yet YOU expect to hold US to account when you will not admit YOUR error.

YOU are acting as a secular gentile who "needs to see proof before you believe"

So PLEASE ADMIT you do NOT have faith, and then you will
not be speaking double tongued, you will be honest that you
are the one who is short on faith here and are demanding proof first.

That is fine. If you are in need of proof because you do not believe,
then TY and I will help each other provide you Christian support to
let go of fear and unforgiveness so that you can know God more fully in Christ.

We are Christian believers and only if you are a nonbeliever
are you allowed to tell us to depart and we must obey.
If you are a fellow believer we are called to rebuke in Christ
to restore good faith relations and not condemn any other
such believers to hell. That is not included in Matthew 18:15-20

It says to tell the grievance or trespass between you and the
trespasser alone, and then if that does not estblish truth, then
you take witnesses to establish truth, and if that doesnt work
you tell it unto the church. You leave them be as a hypocrite and heathen.
It does NOT say you "declare them to be a denier of Christ and going to hell"
Where in Matthew 18:15-20 does it instruct you to say any such thing?

But if you are not a believer, you are not held to scripture.
You may be held to natural laws as a secular gentile
in which case the natural laws of justice are to assume
innocent until proven guilty. If you are a hypocrite and typical
material selfish person, you will assume and declare someone guilty first and then
demand proof afterward of someone's defense and innocence,
which you seem to be doing here.

So you are acting even lower than the secular gentiles
who would assume innocence first until proven guilty.

Whichever standards you follow, please specify.
Either Matthew 18:15-20 or if you believe you
deserve to be assumed innocent first until proven guilty
then by the Golden Rule you should extend the same courtesy
to others as you want for yourself. That is a natural law fulfilled in Christ also.

Please take your pick, which law you wish to use to conduct rebuke
and we can settle this in Christ Jesus name. Amen.

 

[emilynghiem]

No Christian should think you are a Christian while exhibiting hostility since Christians would not behave that way towards brothers and sisters in Christ, so that is why a person would believe you are not a Christian and therefore, going to Hell.

Dear Parture the Bible also warns not to provoke our neighbor to anger.
Half of the provocation is your responsibility.

I still see TY as a Christian having calling from God to forgive you and seeking to reconcile in truth.

Only a true believer in Christ would endure that, as you can see the nonbelievers have
already "written you off as false" and only the true believers are left who forgive and
have faith regardless how unjustly you accuse us and abuse our forgiveness and faith.

So you can tell the true believers by those who forgive.
Even you claim to forgive and to be a believer,
so we give you benefit of the doubt and seek to reconcile with you in Christ.

Forgiving you 77 times 77, and not renouncing faith in God or Christ
just because we are experiencing disagreement and lack of understanding yet.

 

[emilynghiem]

Universalism is False - Jesus was not a universalist so Emily worships a false Christ

Because Emily has not accepted Christ, if she continues to reject Him through her universalism heresy and then dies, she will go to Hell and be there forever. There are no universalists in Heaven for universalism is a heresy.

Emily will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" (Rev. 12.10).

Emily will go away to everlasting punishment.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

Emily will have the wrath of God on her to remain.

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3.36).

Emily when she goes to Hell will be forever separated from God.

"They will be punished with eternal destruction, forever separated from the Lord and from his glorious power" (2 Thess. 1.9).

OK Parture I will try ONE more time to correct this error
1. First of all I AGREE that the Bible does not LITERALLY say Universal Salvation.
So I agree to stick to just the scriptures as you cited that don't say this in there.
I DO agree and HAVE ALWAYS agreed with the BIBLE here
and did not mean to cause confusion as if I disagreed with the BIBLE here.
I do and have always agreed with all these scriptures:

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" (Rev. 12.10).

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matt. 25.46).

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him" (John 3.36).

2. if there is any such universal salvation, it must still be according to the above scriptures
and still make them true, while God manages to use the process in Christ Jesus to save all souls.
So any such salvation must still be consistent with the above scriptures.
YES I agree and have always agreed and never disagreed with these scriptures.

3. As for your accusing me of not believing just because YOU did not believe
I believed in the above scriptures.
a. my mispeaking was my responsibility and I apologize for causing confusion I did not mean
b. but for you to ACCUSE me in advance FALSELY because I NEVER SAID I denied
these things, that is YOUR fault for making a false assumption and accusation.

4. If you are Christian then we can forgive each other for this misunderstanding.
I need to clarify that i ONLY believe in Universal Salvation if it still meets and fulfills
the above scriptures.

I failed to make this clear to you because I did not know you would jump to such false conclusions
so quickly when what you accuse me of is against what I believe.

However, now that I have clarified, I hope you can forgive me for giving
you the totally WRONG impression.

I can forgive you for jumping the gun and flying off and accusing me of all kinds of ill repute,
And I in addition ask your help to explain this to the website administrators who
must have gotten the same wrong impression the minute they heard any mention of
"universalist" as denying the above scriptures which I already said I agreed with.

I have no problem saying that there cannot be universal salvation if it goes against
these scriptures in the Bible.

It can only be so if it is still follows this, and I do believe with God that is possible.
If you are saying this thing in the Bible makes it impossible I agree
just to stick with scripture and not to argue back and forth.

So I agree not to insert or assume Universal Salvation
and that is not what I meant anyway.

I mean only if it is consistent with God's truth and the Bible.
And I believe it is, but agree since that is not expressly stated to drop it
and just stick with Scripture.

I am fine with sticking strictly with Scripture and did not mean to make
you panic or start accusing me of things I am not teaching and do not mean or believe.

P.S. I do believe the Trinity is Universal. So if you agree that God/Christ/HolySpirit
applies to all humanity then we can focus on that instead of arguing. Thanks.

 

[emilynghiem]

Of course Christians forgive, but we are not universalists. We do not believe everyone gets saved.

Dear Parture
Teddyear and I can attest to the faith that we are both Christian believers.
Is there anyone else here who can attest to your faith?
You say "we" above referring to Christians.
Who else here agrees that you are Christian?

I believe(d) you were because you seemed sincere in making valid points,
but when I saw how you behaved, I may have made a mistake.

I apologize for assuming this and treating you as if you
did understand forgiveness and spiritual healing if you do not have the
same experience as other Christians who know that demons and Satan can be cast out.

If you do not fully understand the meaning and message of Christ,
then you may be on the level of Jehovah's Witnesses
who know enough of the Bible to start judging and rejecting
but don't know how to reconcile in Christ Jesus. They also
accuse other Christians of "not being true believers or witnesses"
so that Matthew 18:15-20 only applies to JW but not to other
people especially Christians they claim are teaching false gospel.

Are you like these Jehovah's Witnesses?

Please let me know what you do or do not believe
and I will try to work with you more effectively in the future.

Some of your reactions seem even more heathen than
Atheists and people against Christianity altogether,
and do not appear as a fellow Believer in God through Christ.

If I misunderstood your faith background, I apologize
and wish to understand so we can communicate,
correct error and establish truth.

I reported your post referring your own website
as redirecting which is not allowed here.

If you want to set up threads here on the Trinity
we can have the discussion here.

Also your 4 step proof of God may be of interest
to Boss and M.D. Rawlings who were debating the
points of the TAG proof.

Sorry if I assumed you were Christian because
your answers seemed to make sense, but then
your reactions and false accusations are worse
than the atheists here who show more sense.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Ted,

I am so glad you believe in the Trinity; OSAS Arminian; premillennialism; that Calvinists are not saved .

just out of curiosity, why is it we Calvinists can't be saved?........I would certainly like to be saved......

 

[emilynghiem]

Ted,

I am so glad you believe in the Trinity; OSAS Arminian; premillennialism; that Calvinists are not saved .

just out of curiosity, why is it we Calvinists can't be saved?........I would certainly like to be saved......

Calvinists cant be saved from hell if they cant forgive and correct attacks from others. If they respond as poorly as Parture has, their unforgiveness and inability to invoke Christ authority as fellow believers will destroy relations and send them through hell.

Parture preaches hell and heaven beyond this lifetime, in God's hands outside our direct control and seeks to codictate who does or does not go to heaven or hell. But is strangely clueless that what we do and agree upon on earth has connection with hellish suffering on earth or the kingdom of God on earth.

The Bible clearly states that when two or three agree in Christ on anything touching the earth it is done by our Father in heaven, whatever we bind or loose on earth is done so in heaven. Yet Parture is so busy trying to send and bind people in hell he misses the point of building the Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven.

Just obsessed with the hell business.
Wants as many ppl to go there and even willing to insert extra conditions and tests on Christian faith and salvation to make sure people make mistakes to be hung and excluded over. He is like a gatekeeper at the doors of hell looking to entrap people by creating stumbling blocks to provoke people to anger or unforgiveness, and then use that to argue they arent Christian.

So the way out if this trap is to maintain forgiveness at all times. It even looks as if some gentiles are more forgiving than he is. If we all forgive his cult like traps we pass the test of faith.

If we can rise above, come back and embrace our fearful brother, we can even turn the tables and use this interaction to win him back for Christ. But we must be purely forgiving and willing to unite on points of agreement to rebuild his faith on solid foundation. He has good points in his theology but is playing gatekeeper politics similar to cults who test you for loyalty first before they let you in.

 

[sealybobo]

I think you are even dumber if you were not brainwashed from birth and you actually fell for the Christian bullshit as an adult. Usually Christianity gets guys like you in your 20's but who knows when or why people "find the lord". I can just imagine the hell you were going through at age 33 when you bought into that religion. Were you a scum bag? Did you hit rock bottom? Or did you just take that long to start thinking about it and Christianity sounded good to you. That's how a lot of blacks in America get sucked into Islam.

Brainwashed from birth? We were all brainwashed from birth for we were all born into sin. God often uses trials and tribulations to lead people to Him; other times not. There is no set way of being saved to receive revelation from God. I had everything going for me, was rich, but I just realized watching the struggles of someone else much like you that you were never satisfied in life, then I realized all things sum up in Christ. And I was saved. That was back in Jan. 2001. I have never been the same since and could never go back to being like you. To this day I have not been able to disprove the Minimal Facts Approach, nor can you; the difference is I give into reality, you remain delusionally hostile, independent and disobedient to your Creator just like the first God-conscious man did.

One way you can check if you are searching out God with all your heart and soul is to try to find a better proof than what God has provided in the NT. And you can't. That's how you know.

No, you realized that YOU were never satisfied. I am satisfied. Well, not completely, but who is? Like you think it would be good for everyone to find Jesus, I think it would be good if humans dropped the god stuff. I think religion is bad for humans. The Greeks thought people would do bad things if they didn't fear Zeus. No different than what you Christians think today. I think you are wrong. In fact look at what believe in god is doing for the Muslims. Look at the arms race we have had with Russia the last 70 years. That's the best our christian nation can do? There must be better. I know, science, math and logic/education. A more intelligent species might do the trick.

We could power our planet through photosyntasys. Why are we destroying our planet instead? I think the corporations are in bed with the churches. I think they use religion to keep us ignorant. We separated church and state but are they still in collusion with each other?

Jesus even said there would be a great many things we accomplish. But He died for your sins, and since you don't want forgiveness you will go to Hell. The proof being you can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings.

I don't buy any of it. I was watching religious tv this morning and this lady was telling the children how Jesus fed 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and 3 fish. It is so obvious to me that these stories are made up. But none of those kids even questioned how this was possible. You loose me when you tell me the hero in your story was super natural. I can't believe something that isn't believable. Why would a god make this the test for getting into heaven? I think this is more of a test on if you are dumb enough to be a member of the Christian cult. Will you swallow impossible stories about when the lord visited? If yes then you can be a member. Sorry I can't fake believing you or your priest or that lady on tv. It's not evil it's common sense.

You don't think there is a naturalistic explaination for the eye witnesses? That's easy. What do you say to the eye witnesses of Mohammad?

 

[sealybobo]

Dear sealybobo RE: your cited quote about sticking to what is natural and "rejecting" anything spiritual beyond that

Jesus even said there would be a great many things we accomplish. But He died for your sins, and since you don't want forgiveness you will go to Hell. The proof being you can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for the eyewitness testimony of the Apostles in various group settings.

And Parture about not being able to prove things naturalistically

I disagree with both of you.
We CAN demonstrate spiritual processes in a natural way using medical and scientific study.

Scott Peck wrote about his observations of demonic exorcism and cure of two schizophrenic patients.
This changed his mind about science and that it could be used to show a consistent pattern of
stages, just like other diseases treatments and cures, both the diagnosis and the testing if the person is healed.

I suggest you look into his writings and suggestions on this field of therapy as scientifically quantifiable and measurable/predictable
so you do not argue back and forth.

So Sealybobo you can have naturalistic focus that INCLUDES and does not false reject spiritual processes.
Like love is a spiritual energy, life is spiritual and these are natural too. they are not mutually exclusive.

And Parture yes we can use science to show the natural patterns and process
of healing by casting out demons using the Christian prayer. We can even develop
the technology to measure the energy, so we can show it is true the negative energies
of demons and occult that is on the side of hell is destructive like radioactive energy and dangerous,
while the positive energy in healing prayers is life giving and helps the mind/body to heal naturally.

God is not against nature because God created the laws of the universe.

Or if you are like sealybobo and other nontheists,
God is nature or is the creation and the body of truth or laws
with no begining or no end but always self-existent and eternal.

either way God's laws include natural laws
and natural laws are not in conflict with spiritual laws either.

The cosmos/universe itself seems to be a living thing. Our planet and everything on it is made from star stuff. If you are going to worship something, make it the stars. Everything else is speculation. What made the stars? Well we even know that. What made that big bang happen? We have no idea. Must be god? No it does not have to be a god. And until you know just admit you don't know. Want to talk about right and wrong? Sure. Mention Jesus or Allah and the conversation is over. Then you've just gone off on an unnecessary tangent.

Have you seen the Cosmos? They show you that when they look at the human body on a molecular level or when they see a mini world inside one drop of water, it looks like a mini universe within our universe. We very well may be inside somethings belly and that living thing lives in a world that is only inside another world. Does a god care about the Tardigrades inside a drop of water? There are more of them on this earth than us. Does god care about them? Oh yea, god put the animals on earth for us. I forgot.

This God talk all boils down to good and bad. Why do you insist that god is necessary? Must be a god? I think you understand the human condition enough to understand how, when and why we created the idea, right? The Ancient Greeks long before the old testament thought that without the fear of Zeus, society would go to shit. That basically man needs a big brother in the sky watching over them, ruling them. Without a god, men would be bad. Do you believe that? I think we haven't even begun to use our brains. I think in 1000 years men then will look back at how primitive we were just like we do to men 1000 years before us. They were uncivilized and ignorant. Yet you want me to believe men 2000 or 5000 years ago? Yea right!

Just look at the stories of the Jews/Christians. Adam and Eve disappointed God. The people of Noah's day offended God. The people of Soddom & Gamora offended god. The people of Jesus' day killed God. And god is coming back one day because society is falling apart. The end times are near. Religion says men are instinctively bad. I disagree. We are animals that can be taught right and wrong.