Zone1 Where in The Bible does it state that "Christians" will be "Raptured Up" before The Tribulation?

[Quantrill]

You avoided the question. Jesus is not in the OT. Prove he is. Show me mention of his name in the OT . Put up or shut up.

What does that prove when you don't believe the Old Testament is the Word of God. Show me what you believe is the Word of God and I will show you Jesus Christ. Put up or shut up. Or better yet, just shut up. You have nothing to offer.

The whole Old Testament is about Jesus Christ.

John the Baptist name is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Yet he is mentioned in the Old Testament. Correct?

Abraham is mentioned in the New Testament and Old Testament. Thus the New Testament must be true. Correct?

Moses is mentioned in the New Testament and Old Testament. Thus the New Testament must be true. Correct?

etc. etc. etc.

 

[Hafar1014]

What does that prove when you don't believe the Old Testament is the Word of God. Show me what you believe is the Word of God and I will show you Jesus Christ. Put up or shut up. Or better yet, just shut up. You have nothing to offer.

The whole Old Testament is about Jesus Christ.

John the Baptist name is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Yet he is mentioned in the Old Testament. Correct?

Abraham is mentioned in the New Testament and Old Testament. Thus the New Testament must be true. Correct?

Moses is mentioned in the New Testament and Old Testament. Thus the New Testament must be true. Correct?

etc. etc. etc.

Jesus original sin the fall of man the devil and hell are not in the Old Testament. They were invented by Christians as a threat to compel obedience.

 

[Cougarbear]

Jesus original sin the fall of man the devil and hell are not in the Old Testament. They were invented by Christians as a threat to compel obedience.

You know, sometimes you just have to open up Google and ask to gain knowledge. So, here you go about heaven and hell.
Yes, heaven and hell are mentioned in the Old Testament, though their descriptions are far less detailed than in the New Testament and often use different terminology. "Heaven" refers to God's dwelling place, while "hell" is typically represented by Sheol, a, shadowy, netherworld realm of the dead where both righteous and wicked go, rather than a place of immediate fiery torment.

WELS +4
Key Concepts in the Old Testament:

• Sheol (The Grave): Appears 65 times, often translated as hell, the pit, or the grave, representing the general abode of the dead.
• Concepts of Punishment:Later Old Testament books hint at eternal consequences, such as Daniel 12:2, which mentions a resurrection to "everlasting contempt"
  .
  • Concepts of Heaven: References include individuals being with God, such as Psalm 23:6 ("dwell in the house of the Lord forever") and Job’s hope to see God after death.
  • Imagery: Isaiah 66:24 describes a place of punishment with a "worm" that does not die and fire that is not quenched, which is later cited by Jesus.

While the New Testament provides a clearer, more developed picture of heaven and hell as places of eternal reward or punishment, the foundation for these concepts is found in the Law and the Prophets.

 

[Cougarbear]

Jesus original sin the fall of man the devil and hell are not in the Old Testament. They were invented by Christians as a threat to compel obedience.

Now, the Devil in Google:
The Devil, as a singular, cosmic embodiment of evil, is not explicitly defined in the Old Testament. Instead, the Hebrew word satan (meaning "adversary" or "accuser") appears a few times, usually referring to a spiritual being acting within God's court to test humans (e.g., Job) rather than the ultimate antagonist of God.

Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange +2
Key Details regarding the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible):

• Satan as a Position: In Job 1–2 and Zechariah 3, "the satan" (with a definite article) is an adversary/prosecutor who opposes humans, not necessarily God.
• 1 Chronicles 21:1: A rare instance where Satan appears as a proper name leading David to sin, though in 2 Samuel 24:1 (the parallel account), it is attributed to God.
• The Serpent in Eden:
  While interpreted in later theology as Satan, the snake in Genesis 3 is described only as a crafty animal.
  • Later Tradition: The development of Satan as a "devil" figure, or cosmic enemy, developed more fully between the Old and New Testaments during the intertestamental period.

 

[Cougarbear]

Jesus original sin the fall of man the devil and hell are not in the Old Testament. They were invented by Christians as a threat to compel obedience.

The Fall of Adam and Eve is explicit in Genesis chapter 3. From this fall from communicating directly with Jehovah and in a state of innocence, their children and all generations from Adam and Eve are in a fallen state separated from God. In this state, we are subject to temptations of the earth and from Satan. Job was tempted by Satan in a test God approved of. Fortunately, God also provided a Savior to atone for the sins, transgressions and all other difficulties Adam and Eve and their children would go through if we would repent and ask for forgiveness. You cannot read Isaiah chapter 53 and not see that God has provided a way for our sins to be washed away by one who was sacrificed for our sins and iniquities.

 

[Quantrill]

Jesus original sin the fall of man the devil and hell are not in the Old Testament. They were invented by Christians as a threat to compel obedience.

Show me what you believe is the Word of God and I will show you Jesus in the Old Testament. And answer my other questions in post #(301).

Nothing is true just because you say it is. And so far, that is all you got.

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

Show me what you believe is the Word of God and I will show you Jesus in the Old Testament. And answer my other questions in post #(301).

Nothing is true just because you say it is. And so far, that is all you got.

Quantrill

Show me were Jesus original sin and hell is in the OT.
Genesis is about free will the moral teaching of Adam and the trial for mans freedom. Can you read it in Hebrew or is all you have poor translation.

 

[Hafar1014]

The Fall of Adam and Eve is explicit in Genesis chapter 3. From this fall from communicating directly with Jehovah and in a state of innocence, their children and all generations from Adam and Eve are in a fallen state separated from God. In this state, we are subject to temptations of the earth and from Satan. Job was tempted by Satan in a test God approved of. Fortunately, God also provided a Savior to atone for the sins, transgressions and all other difficulties Adam and Eve and their children would go through if we would repent and ask for forgiveness. You cannot read Isaiah chapter 53 and not see that God has provided a way for our sins to be washed away by one who was sacrificed for our sins and iniquities.

Gods moral teaching of Adam is not the fall. Adam was obeying Gods will to eat the fruit that contains knowledge of good and evil. That cant be a sin. That was Gods plan then the trial for mans freedom begins. Adam eventually admitted he ate it and came to God of his free will. Thats what god wanted. The serpent is not the Satan. Its a metaphor from Jewish folklore the only animal that has speech and stands for guile.

Genesis is about free will and moral development and choosing to come to god. You Christians distorted it and made it all about sin and punishment to use as way to force obedience with a threat. Thats step backward from true Judaism. Since you cant read Hebrew you have no idea what it really means.

 

[Hafar1014]

The Fall of Adam and Eve is explicit in Genesis chapter 3. From this fall from communicating directly with Jehovah and in a state of innocence, their children and all generations from Adam and Eve are in a fallen state separated from God. In this state, we are subject to temptations of the earth and from Satan. Job was tempted by Satan in a test God approved of. Fortunately, God also provided a Savior to atone for the sins, transgressions and all other difficulties Adam and Eve and their children would go through if we would repent and ask for forgiveness. You cannot read Isaiah chapter 53 and not see that God has provided a way for our sins to be washed away by one who was sacrificed for our sins and iniquities.

Genesis states clearly the sin of one cant be extended to humanity as a whole. There is no original sin or fall those are Christian distortions of Gods meaning. They needed a threat to compel obedience so they invented original sin Satan and Hell. Thats why Christians persecuted Jews for centuries. We know what it really means.

 

[Quantrill]

Show me were Jesus original sin and hell is in the OT.
Genesis is about free will the moral teaching of Adam and the trial for mans freedom. Can you read it in Hebrew or is all you have poor translation.

I need to know the Bible you consider Authoritative. In other words, The Word of God. List the Old Testament books that you believe are the Word of God. And then I will show you Jesus in the Old Testament.

Chapter and verse in Genesis where it says, 'Genesis is about free will the moral teaching of Adam and the trial for mans freedom'.

Quantrill

 

[Hafar1014]

I need to know the Bible you consider Authoritative. In other words, The Word of God. List the Old Testament books that you believe are the Word of God. And then I will show you Jesus in the Old Testament.

Chapter and verse in Genesis where it says, 'Genesis is about free will the moral teaching of Adam and the trial for mans freedom'.

Quantrill

 

[Cougarbear]

Gods moral teaching of Adam is not the fall. Adam was obeying Gods will to eat the fruit that contains knowledge of good and evil. That cant be a sin. That was Gods plan then the trial for mans freedom begins. Adam eventually admitted he ate it and came to God of his free will. Thats what god wanted. The serpent is not the Satan. Its a metaphor from Jewish folklore the only animal that has speech and stands for guile.

Genesis is about free will and moral development and choosing to come to god. You Christians distorted it and made it all about sin and punishment to use as way to force obedience with a threat. Thats step backward from true Judaism. Since you cant read Hebrew you have no idea what it really means.

It’s always funny to say because you can’t read a language you can’t know what it says in 2026 with all our technology. And Hebrew no less. Pretty much a dead language in which Christians help Jews learn all over again.

The scriptures are not for your private interpretation either. Israel went through many years of apostasy without prophets to ask God the meaning of passages.

There’s no doubt symbolism is used in the scriptures. The interpretation is also up to the reader and their relationship with God. An entity that deceives with guile is the very same devil Satan who did the same to Job and others. The purpose of Adam and Eve was to do two things, multiply and replenish the earth with children and not to eat of the fruit to know good an evil. They honored the multiply order or commandment. Not so with the good and evil fruit. They were changed to mortality and banished from the presence of God and the Garden. Definitely a punishment. However, a plan had already been established before the foundations of the Universe were built. A way back into the presence of God over coming physical death. Plenty of OT scripture to agree
With me. I’ve shared some already.

 

[Quantrill]

Hafar1014

The pictures in post #(311) don't tell me anything.

I asked what Bible do you consider Authoritative, meaning the Word of God. What books in the Old Testament do you consider the Word of God.

I asked you for chapter and verse in Genesis where it says 'Genesis is about free will, the moral teaching of Adam and the trial for mans freedom'.

Quantrill