Zone1 Jesus' CONCEPTION (not birth) during Hanukkah / Christmas

I call it millions of people being victimized because of their beliefs. That they were killed does not make their deaths a sacrifice. It makes it a tragedy.
A child dies in an accident. That's a tragedy. Prisoners shot for daring to share their bread with another hungry person is worse than tragedy. It is sacrifice. You must have your own stories about the Holocaust. Maybe it's just me, but dismissing it as a "tragedy" doesn't do it for me. It was needless. And sacrifices were made.
 
A child dies in an accident. That's a tragedy. Prisoners shot for daring to share their bread with another hungry person is worse than tragedy. It is sacrifice. You must have your own stories about the Holocaust. Maybe it's just me, but dismissing it as a "tragedy" doesn't do it for me. It was needless. And sacrifices were made.
Why characterize my reaction as a dismissal? I don't see a sacrifice as "worse" than tragedy.
 
Why characterize my reaction as a dismissal? I don't see a sacrifice as "worse" than tragedy.
Tragedies happen every day. Tragedy is a genre in literature--Romeo and Juliet. In my mind, The Holocaust rises above tragedy. Probably just me...it was so needless, so cruel, so many sacrifices. Summarizing it as a tragedy has silly me thinking, "You mean like Hamlet?"
 
I hear you. I had the great fortune of having a Jew whose first language happened to be Hebrew, explain and teach me the Old Testament. From there I searched out rabbinical scholars whose only focus was Judaism, like Christianity did not exist. Next came Catholic commentaries that include the Jewish perspective on all passages that reference Old Testament prophecies. We agree on so much, but there is an impassable stumbling block between the two faith. Christians are convinced Jesus is the Word of God, made flesh, sent into the world for a specific purpose. Jews are convinced God never would have done any such thing. A tenuous connection is both faiths adamantly believe in the Word of God. Therefore, there is no need to call Jesus an idol--and crushingly and needlessly cruel to Christians because Christians see this as a very grave insult to God and God's Words. We love God and as known to all, attacking a loved one also wounds those who love the attacked.

My friend, in presenting the Jewish perspective, was in no way trying to take me away from my own faith. He was sharing Jewish traditions and histories--and their meanings to the Jewish people, a people set apart. Christianity became grafted into, not so much Jewish history, but the history of God and His plans in and for this world. Matthew's gospel (one that causes Jews to be perturbed) was not meant to perturb anyone. Matthew used a literary technique known as foreshadowing, to present God's continuing work/plans for the world. When we remember foreshadowing is never an exact duplicate, but points to a separate similar event, a better, calmer understanding might be reached between Jews and Christians.

Let's take Isaiah 9:6 (For us a child is born)...Isaiah, without a doubt, was referencing King Hezekiah. This reality should be seen by all Christians. It does not in the least affect their part of the story. Christians should see this truly great event in Jewish history as a foreshadowing of a much later history, the birth of Christ. Christians should also be aware that Jews do not, cannot, see the birth of King Hezekiah as a foreshadowing of Jesus, but Jews should be able to understand that gentile Christians do, and their faith in God's work is unshakeable--and Jewish attack on this is seen as wounds directed toward both God and Christians. When we can both understand how vital our faiths are to each other, we should be able to teach without the slightest effort to convert or change anyone's mind. Christians should be able to see Jews are as unshakeable in faith as Christians. Christians should give Jews great respect and take great care not to hurt, as an attack on them, wounds God.

Anyway...sorry for the screed, but perhaps at least, the future, try not to wound Christians on Christmas, just as Christians need to take much greater care on Passover.
Meriweather I have been on these forums for some time and I have seen the blatant arrogance and shamelessness and conceit emanating from many a follower of Christianity… It is not Jews that spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year trying to convert Them away from the worship of Abraham Isaac and Jacob it is Christian’s and her followers…. It is not Jews dressing up as orthodox rabbis and pretending to be what they are not by luring naive Jews into their clutches and stealing their souls all for the glory of Christ…. You have not sat down minding your own business and enjoying some peaceful solitude when some rude and arrogant person has tried to hand you his literature maybe even while you are eating a meal…. The southern baptists try to make some of their churches look like Jewish houses of worship so they can wait like a ghoulish spider to pounce on any of the Jewish faith who wander their way..I could go on and on… Jews don’t try to convert others away from their faiths basically most want to be left alone and in peace and tranquility but it is hard when arrogant lawless people are besieging you from all sides… You are lucky your friend was Jewish and had no ulterior motives unlike Christianity and their followers..Christian’s consistently try to,place Jesus wherever they can in the Jewish scriptures to confuse naive people they claim some 300 or more places which to the knowledgeable is extremely humorous.They even change the words and connotations and add things that are not there which ironically breaks the taboo in deutoronomy to neither add nor subtract anything…



I am sorry to tell you and bring it up but the worship and veneration of
Jesus
is nothing but idol worship and is an explicit sin we are told this in many places esp verses such as Isaiah 44:10
Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?
In Isiah44;9 It states they that make a graven image are all of them vanity and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses;(christians) they see not; nor know; that they may be ashamed. Still confused well here is some more. Isaiah44;13(notice it is 13) The carpenter(Who is that was Jesus not considered a carpenter) strecheth out his rule(over the world)he marketh it out with a line;he fitteth it with planes and he marketh it out with a compass, and maketh it after the fiqure of a man(JESUS);according to the beauty of a man;that it mat remain in the house(Maybe over your bed?) One more passage Isiah44;17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god(JESUS)Even his graven image(AGAIN JESUS);He falleth down unto it and worshippeth it. and prayeth unto it and saith Deliver me; for this art my god(JESUS)………As for the logos or word that is all Jesus is just a word in a book … He neither took a breath , spoke a word or heard anything and is no difference then a character in a romance novel or a book like lord of the rings… He is the ultimate idol whose stories and myths are nothing more then that… Good day to you…
 
Meriweather I have been on these forums for some time and I have seen the blatant arrogance and shamelessness and conceit emanating from many a follower of Christianity…
I can say the same thing about a number of Jews on this forum and their behaviors towards Christians and Christianity.

It seems no religious sect has claimed a monopoly on poor manners.
 
I am sorry to tell you and bring it up but the worship and veneration of
Jesus
is nothing but idol worship and is an explicit sin we are told this in many places
It's laughable that you post this as you are the most outspoken of the Jews here who proselytize while condemning Christians who share their understanding of the scriptures as "proselytizing". One of you has even said many times that we aren't "allowed" to talk about Christ to a Jew because they find it "offensive.". That ain't gonna happen
 
He neither took a breath , spoke a word or heard anything and is no difference then a character in a romance novel or a book like lord of the rings… He is the ultimate idol whose stories and myths are nothing more then that
You say these foolish things because you are locked into your traditions -- teaching as doctrine the commandments of Men

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Jews don’t try to convert others away from their faiths basically most want to be left alone and in peace and tranquility but it is hard when arrogant lawless people are besieging you from all sides…

such are they so euphemistic for others ...

when they chose for themselves their path of hereditary idolatry expressed cunningly throughout their vocabulary and abide to their state religion of a deliberate apartheid, being left alone to persecute and victimize the innocent using sanitizing commandments they claim came especially to them from the heavens.

the 1st century events are a fresh beginning for the remnants remaining since then to this day, the repudiation of judaism and inclusive for all three desert religions of the same prologue written by the liar moses - for its champion and their cause they died for liberation theology, self determination as the means for judgement by the heavens and admission to the everlasting.
 
He is the ultimate idol whose stories and myths are nothing more then that…
We will never agree on this, which is fine with me. I have read plenty of myths, and the accounts of Jesus differ greatly than any other mythology. His teachings are not only uplifting using the usual definition of the word, but lifted my entire life. Just understand when someone spits on Jesus, they spit on my life--and there is no cause for that. My point is that we are all capable of respect when it comes to the sincere faith of others.

It is ironic that Jews accepting Jesus would be a betrayal of God and their own profound faith; whereas a Christian denial of Jesus would also be a betrayal of God and their heartfelt faith. I regret the hurt and disrespect you have endured by those ignorant of your faith. May God bless you and keep you.
 
Tragedies happen every day. Tragedy is a genre in literature--Romeo and Juliet. In my mind, The Holocaust rises above tragedy. Probably just me...it was so needless, so cruel, so many sacrifices. Summarizing it as a tragedy has silly me thinking, "You mean like Hamlet?"
a Shakespearean tragedy is not the same as murder. If the word loses its meaning in one context because of its association with another context then you need to compartmentalize your vocabulary more effectively. Unless you intend to insist that can't see the difference between a chip and a buffalo chip, I think your position is inconsistent.
 
It should be pointed out that many of the figures were combined and the time frames are off because of it and no one figure was singular we see this in the Saul/Paul ( Sol/sun , Paul/apple character for example as well…. Quite frankly there is historical precedence in this as the Romans were notorious for taking other cultures gods such as the Greeks and claiming them as their own and giving them Roman names it or titles..Even JC or Julias Caesar and JC Jesus Christ and on and on Eu tu Brutai( Brutus turning on his friend and Judas) etc etc..
Christianity also stole stories from other cultures, most notably Summarian and Egyptian
 
You say these foolish things because you are locked into your traditions -- teaching as doctrine the commandments of Men

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Please Carl these topics have been thoroughly covered many times on this forum… Josephus mentioning Jesus is an obvious later addition and forgery..Tacitus mentions a certain Chrestus which could have been anyone as it commonly meant freedman or slave or good one.. As for Paul it should be noted that the gospels were basically all anonymous until later on when they were given names much to I am sure to your chagrin.. Just pious fraud at its best Esp guys to Eusibeus who were known for such things…
 
It's laughable that you post this as you are the most outspoken of the Jews here who proselytize while condemning Christians who share their understanding of the scriptures as "proselytizing". One of you has even said many times that we aren't "allowed" to talk about Christ to a Jew because they find it "offensive.". That ain't gonna happen
I rest my case about Christian’s being arrogant, shameless and boastful as you fit the bill to a tee or cross…
 
Tacitus mentions a certain Chrestus which could have been anyone as it commonly meant freedman or slave or good one.
Incorrect.

Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome....[5]
 
Josephus mentioning Jesus is an obvious later addition and forgery.
Incorrect.

On two occasions, in his Jewish Antiquities, he mentions Jesus. The second, less revealing, reference describes the condemnation of one "James" by the Jewish Sanhedrin. This James, says Josephus, was "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ."[14] F.F. Bruce points out how this agrees with Paul's description of James in Galatians 1:19 as "the Lord's brother."[15] And Edwin Yamauchi informs us that "few scholars have questioned" that Josephus actually penned this passage.[16]

As interesting as this brief reference is, there is an earlier one, which is truly astonishing. Called the "Testimonium Flavianum," the relevant portion declares:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he ... wrought surprising feats.... He was the Christ. When Pilate ...condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared ... restored to life.... And the tribe of Christians ... has ... not disappeared.[17]
 
Incorrect.

On two occasions, in his Jewish Antiquities, he mentions Jesus. The second, less revealing, reference describes the condemnation of one "James" by the Jewish Sanhedrin. This James, says Josephus, was "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ."[14] F.F. Bruce points out how this agrees with Paul's description of James in Galatians 1:19 as "the Lord's brother."[15] And Edwin Yamauchi informs us that "few scholars have questioned" that Josephus actually penned this passage.[16]

As interesting as this brief reference is, there is an earlier one, which is truly astonishing. Called the "Testimonium Flavianum," the relevant portion declares:
Nice try the letter J has only been around for a few hundred years when it was added to the alphabet and we have much evidence of pious fraud but hey you believe( bel the snakes lie to Eve) what you like…
 
Nice try the letter J has only been around for a few hundred years when it was added to the alphabet and we have much evidence of pious fraud but hey you believe( bel the snakes lie to Eve) what you like…
Not a try. These are documented facts. Your reaction speaks volumes.
 
We will never agree on this, which is fine with me. I have read plenty of myths, and the accounts of Jesus differ greatly than any other mythology. His teachings are not only uplifting using the usual definition of the word, but lifted my entire life. Just understand when someone spits on Jesus, they spit on my life--and there is no cause for that. My point is that we are all capable of respect when it comes to the sincere faith of others.

It is ironic that Jews accepting Jesus would be a betrayal of God and their own profound faith; whereas a Christian denial of Jesus would also be a betrayal of God and their heartfelt faith. I regret the hurt and disrespect you have endured by those ignorant of your faith. May God bless you and keep you.
Spitting is not a good thing to be accused of as a young boy of Jewish descent was accused of doing this to a catholic priest in Prague and the fine citizens there had a pogram in which they slaughtered many a Jewish person these on going attacks continued for many a year in many a place to many a Jewish person it was fine example of Christian acceptance and kindheartedness… Considering that in your gospels Jesus spat in the eye of a blind person and cured him of his blindness or so the tales go… Spit should not be so frowned on would you not say….hmmmm…
 
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