Does Christianity justify racism?

[Anonymous1977]

Hi,

I read this Scriptures from the New Testament and I wondered do they mean that Christianity justifies racism (in the Scriptures Jesus refers to people of certain races as "dogs:")

"(21)Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. (22)And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. (23)But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. (24)But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25)Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26)But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. (27)And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (28)Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour." Matt. 15:21-28

"(24)And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid. (25) For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: (26)The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. (27)But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. (28)And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. (29)And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter. (30)And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed." Mark 7:24-30

Do these Scriptures mean that Christianity justify racism?...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Of course not. Christianity does not promote racism at all. You do not understand the context of why Jesus said this. The woman who came to him was a Baal Worshiper. She worshiped Baal - in the region of Tyre and Sidon in that day if you didn't worship Baal you'd be killed. She didn't have a choice in the matter - furthermore, the Jews were surely amazed that Jesus went there! This wasn't a place the Jews would go near as the Jews feared the LORD and would not mingle with Baal worshipers.

Dogs - would have been another word for the wicked. Look at Revelation 21:14,15

it is written:

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

-Revelation 21: 14, 15
_________________

It had nothing to do with racism. God loves you. He didn't send Jesus into the world to condemn you but rather to save you! Read Romans 10:9,10. Its Good news! What Jesus did for that Baal worshiping woman - because of her faith - and her willingness to use her faith to believe on him rather than a baal god who could do nothing for her daughter - she received her answer and Jesus had mercy upon her! What He did for her? He will do for you today. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Call upon the name of the LORD and be saved today. Today is the day of salvation. TODAY.

 

[Meriweather]

Hi,

I read this Scriptures from the New Testament and I wondered do they mean that Christianity justifies racism (in the Scriptures Jesus refers to people of certain races as "dogs:")

"(21)Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. (22)And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. (23)But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. (24)But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25)Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26)But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. (27)And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (28)Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour." Matt. 15:21-28

"(24)And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid. (25) For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: (26)The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. (27)But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. (28)And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. (29)And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter. (30)And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed." Mark 7:24-30

Do these Scriptures mean that Christianity justify racism?...

The story is about faith, not racism. I once listened to someone who was pointing out how sometimes humor in the original language is lost in the translations--especially when there are no facial expressions to help us out.

Imagine parents and children sitting down to dinner, and parents placing food on the children's plates--not in the dog's bowl. The parents want the children to eat the nutritious food. The children are not impressed, but having been told to clean their plates...they begin to pass bits of food to the dog. The adults might not give the food to the dog directly, but the reality is that it is going to end up in the dog despite this.

It was true that Jews considered themselves God's chosen, and that comparatively speaking, everyone else (especially their enemies) were held in the same esteem as a dog (which were not highly esteemed in those days). But what the Jews were tossing away, foreigners were poised to gladly receive.

 

[Anonymous1977]

Of course not. Christianity does not promote racism at all. You do not understand the context of why Jesus said this. The woman who came to him was a Baal Worshiper. She worshiped Baal - in the region of Tyre and Sidon in that day if you didn't worship Baal you'd be killed. She didn't have a choice in the matter - furthermore, the Jews were surely amazed that Jesus went there! This wasn't a place the Jews would go near as the Jews feared the LORD and would not mingle with Baal worshipers.
Dogs - would have been another word for the wicked. Look at Revelation 21:14,15
it is written:
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
-Revelation 21: 14, 15
_________________
It had nothing to do with racism. God loves you. He didn't send Jesus into the world to condemn you but rather to save you! Read Romans 10:9,10. Its Good news! What Jesus did for that Baal worshiping woman - because of her faith - and her willingness to use her faith to believe on him rather than a baal god who could do nothing for her daughter - she received her answer and Jesus had mercy upon her! What He did for her? He will do for you today. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Call upon the name of the LORD and be saved today. Today is the day of salvation. TODAY.

I didn't read all of your post but if what you are saying is true ("she was a Baal worshipper,") WHY DID SHE FIRST CALL JESUS "LORD" AND HE STILL CALLED HER A DOG?

Someone is lying.

 

[Anonymous1977]

The story is about faith, not racism. I once listened to someone who was pointing out how sometimes humor in the original language is lost in the translations--especially when there are no facial expressions to help us out.

Imagine parents and children sitting down to dinner, and parents placing food on the children's plates--not in the dog's bowl. The parents want the children to eat the nutritious food. The children are not impressed, but having been told to clean their plates...they begin to pass bits of food to the dog. The adults might not give the food to the dog directly, but the reality is that it is going to end up in the dog despite this.

It was true that Jews considered themselves God's chosen, and that comparatively speaking, everyone else (especially their enemies) were held in the same esteem as a dog (which were not highly esteemed in those days). But what the Jews were tossing away, foreigners were poised to gladly receive.

The story is obviously about race; she called him "Lord" (exhibiting faith) and he still ignored her and called her a dog.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The story is about faith, not racism. I once listened to someone who was pointing out how sometimes humor in the original language is lost in the translations--especially when there are no facial expressions to help us out.

Imagine parents and children sitting down to dinner, and parents placing food on the children's plates--not in the dog's bowl. The parents want the children to eat the nutritious food. The children are not impressed, but having been told to clean their plates...they begin to pass bits of food to the dog. The adults might not give the food to the dog directly, but the reality is that it is going to end up in the dog despite this.

It was true that Jews considered themselves God's chosen, and that comparatively speaking, everyone else (especially their enemies) were held in the same esteem as a dog (which were not highly esteemed in those days). But what the Jews were tossing away, foreigners were poised to gladly receive.

The story is obviously about race; she called him "Lord" (exhibiting faith) and he still ignored her and called her a dog.

No, it's about faith. We know that Jesus did NOT come just for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. Jesus was known for putting stumbling blocks in people's way when they spoke to Him in order to test whether they had the faith and perseverence to bypass them. The Canaanites were a pagan people, with a long history of animosity between them and the Jews. For her to believe Him to be the Messiah prophesied by the Jews strongly enough to beg him for help, even in the face of apparent rejection, was a hugely meaningful thing, as was Jesus' subsequent help. This was all intended to be a test of her faith, and a lesson to Jews and Gentiles alike.

 

[Agit8r]

Historically there have been people who thought so: Godwin s Law Review Christian Duty

 

[Meriweather]

The story is about faith, not racism. I once listened to someone who was pointing out how sometimes humor in the original language is lost in the translations--especially when there are no facial expressions to help us out.

Imagine parents and children sitting down to dinner, and parents placing food on the children's plates--not in the dog's bowl. The parents want the children to eat the nutritious food. The children are not impressed, but having been told to clean their plates...they begin to pass bits of food to the dog. The adults might not give the food to the dog directly, but the reality is that it is going to end up in the dog despite this.

It was true that Jews considered themselves God's chosen, and that comparatively speaking, everyone else (especially their enemies) were held in the same esteem as a dog (which were not highly esteemed in those days). But what the Jews were tossing away, foreigners were poised to gladly receive.

The story is obviously about race; she called him "Lord" (exhibiting faith) and he still ignored her and called her a dog.

No, it's about faith. We know that Jesus did NOT come just for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. Jesus was known for putting stumbling blocks in people's way when they spoke to Him in order to test whether they had the faith and perseverence to bypass them. The Canaanites were a pagan people, with a long history of animosity between them and the Jews. For her to believe Him to be the Messiah prophesied by the Jews strongly enough to beg him for help, even in the face of apparent rejection, was a hugely meaningful thing, as was Jesus' subsequent help. This was all intended to be a test of her faith, and a lesson to Jews and Gentiles alike.

Yes. Another perspective I like to take of this story is in relation to the temptations Jesus faced. One of these was to be given all nations, not just the lost sheep of Israel. Could Jesus have been considering/praying over whether the situation with the Canaanite woman was a temptation to expand into greater territory rather than to continue with his mission only to Israel?

Another rather humorous aspect is that women really weren't supposed to approach men on public streets. Nor were good men to accost/speak to women. Makes me grin to think of twelve men following after Jesus, and not one of them dared to speak out and ask the woman to leave them alone. Instead, they said to Jesus, "You tell her to go away." So what does Jesus do? He engages her in conversation! Can you imagine the apostles looking down, scuffling their feet, perhaps Andrew elbowing James, and rolling his eyes as in, "Can you believe him!?!"

That Jesus invited conversation tells us he probably wasn't a person who disrespected either race or gender.

 

[Anonymous1977]

No, it's about faith. We know that Jesus did NOT come just for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. Jesus was known for putting stumbling blocks in people's way when they spoke to Him in order to test whether they had the faith and perseverence to bypass them. The Canaanites were a pagan people, with a long history of animosity between them and the Jews. For her to believe Him to be the Messiah prophesied by the Jews strongly enough to beg him for help, even in the face of apparent rejection, was a hugely meaningful thing, as was Jesus' subsequent help. This was all intended to be a test of her faith, and a lesson to Jews and Gentiles alike.

Sure. Can you give another "example of Jesus putting a stumbling block in a person's way in order to test whether the person had the faith and perseverence to bypass it?"

If you can't give another example then you are lying and that is something that you have made up.

 

[Anonymous1977]

Yes. Another perspective I like to take of this story is in relation to the temptations Jesus faced. One of these was to be given all nations, not just the lost sheep of Israel. Could Jesus have been considering/praying over whether the situation with the Canaanite woman was a temptation to expand into greater territory rather than to continue with his mission only to Israel?

Another rather humorous aspect is that women really weren't supposed to approach men on public streets. Nor were good men to accost/speak to women. Makes me grin to think of twelve men following after Jesus, and not one of them dared to speak out and ask the woman to leave them alone. Instead, they said to Jesus, "You tell her to go away." So what does Jesus do? He engages her in conversation! Can you imagine the apostles looking down, scuffling their feet, perhaps Andrew elbowing James, and rolling his eyes as in, "Can you believe him!?!"

That Jesus invited conversation tells us he probably wasn't a person who disrespected either race or gender.

Actually that would be a, "no." Didn't Paul say this about stumbling-blocks:

Romans 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

 

[Meriweather]

Actually that would be a, "no." Didn't Paul say this about stumbling-blocks:

Romans 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Context is quite different. Paul is talking about dietary law, and that people need to stop judging the faith of others based on what they do (or do not) eat. Paul believed faith in Christ should not hinge on diet or circumcision because these were a stumbling block to Gentiles.

Testing the veracity of people claiming to be Christians was quite different. For example, if a person claiming to be a Christian missionary asked for money, they were to be given none, and told not to return. These false prophets were stumbling blocks to true Christian teachings and should not be allowed among the flock.

 

[OZman]

The story is obviously about race; she called him "Lord" (exhibiting faith) and he still ignored her and called her a dog.

The story is an analogy, it is not literal.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, it's about faith. We know that Jesus did NOT come just for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. Jesus was known for putting stumbling blocks in people's way when they spoke to Him in order to test whether they had the faith and perseverence to bypass them. The Canaanites were a pagan people, with a long history of animosity between them and the Jews. For her to believe Him to be the Messiah prophesied by the Jews strongly enough to beg him for help, even in the face of apparent rejection, was a hugely meaningful thing, as was Jesus' subsequent help. This was all intended to be a test of her faith, and a lesson to Jews and Gentiles alike.

Sure. Can you give another "example of Jesus putting a stumbling block in a person's way in order to test whether the person had the faith and perseverence to bypass it?"

If you can't give another example then you are lying and that is something that you have made up.

Glad you asked, and especially glad you made a point of being so nasty about it in your mistaken assumption that I wouldn't be able to produce. This way, once I'm done, we'll all know that you have therefore admitted to being the liar making things up.

In John 6, we are told about Jesus feeding the five thousand.

When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?

6 And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yes. Another perspective I like to take of this story is in relation to the temptations Jesus faced. One of these was to be given all nations, not just the lost sheep of Israel. Could Jesus have been considering/praying over whether the situation with the Canaanite woman was a temptation to expand into greater territory rather than to continue with his mission only to Israel?

Another rather humorous aspect is that women really weren't supposed to approach men on public streets. Nor were good men to accost/speak to women. Makes me grin to think of twelve men following after Jesus, and not one of them dared to speak out and ask the woman to leave them alone. Instead, they said to Jesus, "You tell her to go away." So what does Jesus do? He engages her in conversation! Can you imagine the apostles looking down, scuffling their feet, perhaps Andrew elbowing James, and rolling his eyes as in, "Can you believe him!?!"

That Jesus invited conversation tells us he probably wasn't a person who disrespected either race or gender.

Actually that would be a, "no." Didn't Paul say this about stumbling-blocks:

Romans 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Nice try, Sparkles, but this is what you get from someone who wants to preach about a faith he doesn't share: ignorance and gibberish.

If you can't see the difference between God Almighty testing a person's faith in Him, and another human being damaging one's faith in God, then you're either mentally challenged or inhibited by an agenda.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The story is obviously about race; she called him "Lord" (exhibiting faith) and he still ignored her and called her a dog.

The story is an analogy, it is not literal.

In what way is this story an analogy?

 

[Anonymous1977]

Context is quite different. Paul is talking about dietary law, and that people need to stop judging the faith of others based on what they do (or do not) eat. Paul believed faith in Christ should not hinge on diet or circumcision because these were a stumbling block to Gentiles.

Testing the veracity of people claiming to be Christians was quite different. For example, if a person claiming to be a Christian missionary asked for money, they were to be given none, and told not to return. These false prophets were stumbling blocks to true Christian teachings and should not be allowed among the flock.

So you're saying that in all matters other than dietary issues, it is OK to "put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in a brother's way?" That sounds like an awful religion lol.

Jesus was not putting a stumblingblock in anyone's way. The passages are obviously racial condemnations.

 

[Anonymous1977]

Nice try, Sparkles, but this is what you get from someone who wants to preach about a faith he doesn't share: ignorance and gibberish.

If you can't see the difference between God Almighty testing a person's faith in Him, and another human being damaging one's faith in God, then you're either mentally challenged or inhibited by an agenda.

So, you are saying that Jesus was telling a lie when he called her a dog?

 

[Anonymous1977]

Glad you asked, and especially glad you made a point of being so nasty about it in your mistaken assumption that I wouldn't be able to produce. This way, once I'm done, we'll all know that you have therefore admitted to being the liar making things up.

In John 6, we are told about Jesus feeding the five thousand.

When Jesus then lifted up his eyes, and saw a great company come unto him, he saith unto Philip, Whence shall we buy bread, that these may eat?

6 And this he said to prove him: for he himself knew what he would do.

How is that a stumblingblock (insulting someone (calling someone(s) "dogs?")) Do you have an example of a "stumblingblock" as you claimed?

No, we can all see that YOU are the liar.

 

[Meriweather]

So you're saying that in all matters other than dietary issues, it is OK to "put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in a brother's way?" That sounds like an awful religion lol.

Jesus was not putting a stumblingblock in anyone's way. The passages are obviously racial condemnations.

No, I pointed out that you used a scripture passage that was talking about preventing people from becoming Christians unless they became circumcised or followed a particular diet.

This is different from testing to see if someone has faith in Christ--or merely wants to make an easy living off Christians.

 

[OZman]

In what way is this story an analogy?

That is my interpretation of the quote. Jesus always spoke in parables or analogies to non disciples.