Zone1 Is it the "New Covenant"? "Old Covenant"? Or,.... The "Renewed Covenant"?

[ding]

Like I said, it is not the words that are irrational it is the ignorant superstitious archaic lore completely divorced from reality, YOUR BELIEFS, that have absolutely no value at all except to the talking serpent that beguiled you. For cash.

The talking serpent represents the Pharaoh who wore a serpent on his head. It was written by Moses to teach Hebrew children about the dangers of losing your mind for life to a con artist, a cult leader, expert in the magical arts, sorcery, what is now well known as mind control. Here is the timeless wisdom of incalculable value. Even so it didn't stop you from being beguiled by a direct descendant of that ever elusive talking serpent of old because you have been diverted into hell by superstitious archaic lore and lost your soul, your sanity.

What you fail to understand is that the early accounts are from Sumerian times when polytheism was the dominant religion of the land. The beliefs expressed in Genesis about a creator God that is moralistic and providential but did not control the affairs of men were a radical departure from polytheistic beliefs.

Google is your friend.

Biblical accounts, particularly those in Genesis, share notable similarities with older myths from other ancient Near Eastern cultures, leading many scholars to conclude they were adapted, rather than "stolen," to express Israelite monotheistic beliefs. The biblical authors reworked common literary motifs to convey their unique theological message.

Key examples of these parallels include:

• The Flood Narrative: The story of Noah and the Ark shares significant plot details with the flood account in the much older Epic of Gilgamesh and the even earlier Atrahasis Epicfrom Mesopotamia.
  • Similarities: In both, a divine figure or council of gods decides to send a great flood to destroy humanity; a chosen man (Noah/Utnapishtim) is warned and instructed to build a large boat; animals are brought on board to preserve life; birds are sent out after the flood to check for dry land; the vessel lands on a mountain; and sacrifices are offered afterward.
  • Differences: The biblical account features one all-powerful God acting for moral reasons (human wickedness), while the Mesopotamian versions involve a pantheon of squabbling gods who are annoyed by human noise or simply choose to wipe them out, with one god breaking ranks to save his favorite human.
• Creation Accounts: The Genesis 1 creation story has parallels with the Babylonian creation myth, the Enuma Elish.
  • Similarities: Both describe a primeval watery chaos before creation, the separation of waters by a firmament (sky), the creation of light before the sun and moon, and a similar sequence of events leading to a period of divine rest. The Hebrew word for the "deep" (tehom) in Genesis is linguistically related to the name of the chaos goddess Tiamat in the Enuma Elish.
  • Differences: Genesis is strictly monotheistic and portrays a sovereign, peaceful creation by divine command ("God said, 'Let there be...'"), while the Enuma Elish is polytheistic and involves a violent cosmic battle between the gods. Humans in Genesis are created in God's image and given dominion, while in the Enuma Elish, humans are created from the blood of a slain god to serve as the gods' slaves.

In essence, the ancient Israelites were part of the wider ancient Near Eastern culture and "breathed the same air". Their scribes used existing cultural and literary forms to present a revolutionary new idea: the existence of a single, all-powerful, and just God who created the world and humanity with purpose. The shared motifs help place the biblical texts within their historical context, but the theological emphasis remains uniquely Israelite.

 

[BreezeWood]

But my belief in the Trinity bothers you so much that pretty much every post you have ever addressed to me in this forum is about expressing that displeasure.

no, your likewise irreverent belief of communion has been equal if not more distasteful between the both of you and your purposeful play of innocence is pure demonism straight from the desert.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

The difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is, as Woodznutz said, where the Law of God is written. Israel carried th Law in tablets of stone. True Christians carry God's Law with them, in their hearts

 

[Carl in Michigan]

cut the mustard

Cut muster
Not
Cut mustard

 

[hobelim]

True Christians carry God's Law with them, in their hearts

Then you knowingly and willfully defy the Law of God, die and descend into hell every time you worship a human being and celebrate human sacrifice never finding peace in death.

Wheee!

 

[hobelim]

Cut muster
Not
Cut mustard

Uh. No. You are just wrong. Its "pass muster" or "cut the mustard" a pun/joke.

If you don't believe me ask ding to ask his friend google.

 

[hobelim]

Their scribes used existing cultural and literary forms to present a revolutionary new idea: the existence of a single, all-powerful, and just God who created the world and humanity with purpose.

No, AI is wrong. The first person to introduce a state sponsored monotheistic religion was the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten. If you don't believe me ask your friend google.

 

[hobelim]

The bee doesn't waste his time trying to convince the fly that honey tastes better than shit.

Right. but you are trying in vain to convince yourself that shit tastes better than honey. Mcfly

You have eaten bread baked on human dung and lost your mind. What I said is irrefutable.

And AI can't do a damn thing about it. It can only spit out the garbage people like you put in which is not proof of anything except your ignorance and perversity and the absence of life.

Thats whats actually happening.

 

[hobelim]

No, it wasn't. The first eleven chapters were passed down orally for at least a thousand years or so - probably much more - before the time of Moses.

No. Genesis is an account of the Law coming into the world as "a light to the nations" through Moses around 3500 years ago when Light, the Law, was SPOKEN into existence.

The account of Abraham was passed down orally for at least 400 years or so before the time of Moses.

So what does that have to do with the fact that Moses, highly educated in the Egyptian court, wrote it down?

The serpent had nothing to do with any Egyptian Pharaoh.

Sure.

 

[ding]

No, AI is wrong. The first person to introduce a state sponsored monotheistic religion was the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten. If you don't believe me ask your friend google.

Historical timelines generally place Abraham before Akhenaten, with Abraham's traditional era around 1800-1600 BCE and Akhenaten reigning in Egypt around 1350 BCE, though the timing of Abraham is debated and tied to religious texts, while Akhenaten is a confirmed historical pharaoh known for early monotheistic-like worship of the sun disk Aten.
Key Timeframes:

• Abraham: Biblical timelines place him in the Middle Bronze Age (c. 2000-1500 BCE).
• Akhenaten: Ruled during the New Kingdom (c. 1353–1336 BCE).

Significance:

• Abraham: A foundational figure in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, traditionally seen as a monotheist, though his story is recorded in religious scriptures.
• Akhenaten: A historical Egyptian Pharaoh who introduced Atenism, a radical shift to worshipping the sun disk (Aten) as the sole god, making him a key figure in early monotheistic-like thought, centuries after Abraham's time.

So, while Abraham predates Akhenaten, the concept of monotheism as practiced by Akhenaten emerged much later than the traditional era of the patriarch Abraham.

 

[ding]

Right. but you are trying in vain to convince yourself that shit tastes better than honey. Mcfly

You have eaten bread baked on human dung and lost your mind. What I said is irrefutable.

And AI can't do a damn thing about it. It can only spit out the garbage people like you put in which is not proof of anything except your ignorance and perversity and the absence of life.

Thats whats actually happening.

Your 16,000 + posts voicing your displeasure over Christian theology says otherwise.

 

[ding]

No. Genesis is an account of the Law coming into the world as "a light to the nations" through Moses around 3500 years ago when Light, the Law, was SPOKEN into existence.


So what does that have to do with the fact that Moses, highly educated in the Egyptian court, wrote it down?


Sure.


View attachment 1206754

Based on scholarly consensus, most biblical scholars do not view Genesis primarily as an account of the Mosaic Law (Torah) being "spoken into existence" 3500 years ago.

While there are some specialized, thematic, or theological interpretations that connect "light" in Genesis to the Law, the mainstream scholarly consensus focuses on different interpretations of the text.

Here is a breakdown of scholarly views regarding your query:

1. The Timing and Purpose of the Law

• Genesis vs. Mosaic Law: While tradition (and some conservative scholarship) attributes the authorship of Genesis to Moses, mainstream scholars generally distinguish Genesis from the "Law" (Exodus-Deuteronomy). The Law, defined as the specific covenantal commands (Ten Commandments and 613 laws), is generally understood to have been given at Mount Sinai (Exodus 19-24), not at the creation of light in Genesis 1.
• Genesis as Pre-history: Genesis is seen as the "book of beginnings" (creation, humanity, the patriarchs), providing the theological background for why a Law was needed, rather than being the Law itself.

2. "Light" as "Law" in Genesis

• Symbolic Interpretation: Some scholars and theologians (e.g., in some Jewish traditions or certain Christian mystical interpretations) have argued that "Let there be light" (Gen 1:3) represents the bringing of divine order, wisdom, or the Law into the world.
• Theological Parallel: As noted in the search results, some ancient interpreters, like the first-century philosopher Philo, equated the "word" (Logos) that created light in Genesis with the Torah.
• General Scholarly View: However, the majority of biblical scholars interpret "Let there be light" as the literal or symbolic creation of physical light/order out of chaos, separating day from night, rather than a metaphorical introduction of the Mosaic Code.

3. Light as "A Light to the Nations"

• Context of Genesis: In Genesis 12, God promises Abraham that through him, all nations will be blessed, which is a key concept of Israel being a "light" (a blessing) to the nations. This theme is developed throughout the Old Testament.
• Creation's Purpose: The creation narrative sets the stage for God's relationship with humanity, showing God as sovereign and orderly, bringing cosmos out of chaos.

4. When was Genesis Written?

• Traditional View: Moses (c. 1400 BCE) compiled Genesis from earlier records.
• Modern Scholarly View: Most modern biblical scholars argue that Genesis reached its final form much later, often citing the post-exilic period (around 400 BCE).

Summary

• No: The majority of biblical scholars do not interpret the creation of light in Genesis as the literal delivery of the Mosaic Law to the world 3,500 years ago.
• Yes: Certain specific theological perspectives (ancient and modern) connect "light" to "wisdom" or "divine law" as a symbolic, or, in the case of some Jewish traditions, an ontological (pre-existent) truth.

Note: The search results mention a "Law of Genesis" which is distinct from the Mosaic Law, referring to principles of how the universe works, such as "kind after kind," but this is not the Law of Moses.

 

[BreezeWood]

Mosaic Law (Torah) being "spoken into existence" 3500 years ago.

who's that bing - are you claiming the heavens have spoken to anyone much less in the open for the posterity of such claims ... you do not believe the liars moses and abraham et al do you. surly not.

 

[ding]

who's that bing - are you claiming the heavens have spoken to anyone much less in the open for the posterity of such claims ... you do not believe the liars moses and abraham et al do you. surly not.

I believe everything you believe is wrong.

 

[BreezeWood]

I believe everything you believe is wrong.

you believe the liars moses and abraham who claim the heavens spoke to them ... their religion of apartheid and phony commandments of servitude and denial - used to persecute and victimize the innocent.

 

[ding]

you believe the liars moses and abraham who claim the heavens spoke to them ... their religion of apartheid and phony commandments of servitude and denial - used to persecute and victimize the innocent.

I had to put that into google to translate it.

The figures of Abraham and Moses are central to the foundational narratives of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, often revered as prophets who received divine communication. However, the historical and theological interpretations of their lives, actions, and the laws attributed to them vary significantly.

Historical and Critical Perspectives

• Historicity: Many modern scholars consider Abraham and Moses to be legendary or mythical figures rather than historical individuals, viewing the narratives of Genesis and Exodus as oral histories or later literary constructs.
• Alternative Viewpoints: Some perspectives, such as that of the Mandaeans, argue that figures like Abraham and Moses were teachers whose, in their view, false teachings were demonically inspired and replaced earlier, more authentic traditions.
• Biblical Criticism: Academic analysis often points out that the stories were heavily influenced by the perspectives of later priests, particularly around the time of the Babylonian exile, which leads to doubts about the authenticity of the events described.

Religious and Ethical Interpretations

• The Mosaic Law: The laws given to Moses (the Torah) are interpreted in various ways. While tradition views them as divine, some critics argue that the rigid, exclusionary, or, in some interpretations, punitive aspects of these laws contributed to the suffering of other groups.
• Concepts of Exclusivity: The portrayal of the Israelites as a "chosen people" in some narratives is interpreted by some critics as a form of religious or ethnic apartheid, leading to the persecution of others.
• Defense of the Narratives: Conversely, believers in these traditions, such as Judaism and Christianity, see the commandments as divine guidance designed to foster holiness, morality, and ethical living rather than oppression.

Impact and Interpretation

• Theology of Covenant: The covenant that God made with Abraham is often understood in theology as one of grace, while the Mosaic covenant is viewed as a law that, in some interpretations, was meant to be temporary or superseded by later, more universal, or, according to some perspectives, more loving, doctrines.
• Legacy: Despite the criticisms, the figures of Abraham and Moses continue to shape the faith of billions, with interpretations ranging from divine revelation to foundational myths that have significantly impacted global culture and ethics.

 

[ding]

you believe the liars moses and abraham who claim the heavens spoke to them ... their religion of apartheid and phony commandments of servitude and denial - used to persecute and victimize the innocent.

Christianity doesn't inherently create servitude but has complex historical ties, with Scripture containing laws for ancient servitude while the Gospel promotes spiritual servitude to God and Christ, emphasizing human equality (Galatians 3:28) and service to others, though historical interpretations have sometimes justified earthly slavery, while modern denominations often condemn it as sinful. The Bible describes existing ancient systems of servitude, but the New Testament emphasizes freeing the enslaved and valuing all people as equal in God's eyes, influencing abolitionist movements, yet some Christians historically used scripture to defend chattel slavery.

Biblical Concepts of Servitude

• Spiritual Servitude: A core Christian concept is serving God and Christ out of love, not coercion, following Jesus' example of selfless service (Mark 10:45).
• Social Servitude: The Old Testament outlines rules for indentured servitude, often temporary, with provisions for release, but also allowed for perpetual servitude for foreigners, which later became a basis for defending slavery.
• Equality in Christ: Paul's letter to the Galatians states, "there is neither slave nor free" in Christ, a foundational idea for human dignity, according to the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.

Historical Interpretations & Actions

• Justification: Some Christians used biblical passages (like Old Testament laws) to justify chattel slavery, particularly during the era of the transatlantic slave trade, even while others argued against it.
• Abolition: Conversely, the Christian emphasis on equality and the inherent worth of every person became a powerful force for abolition, with many Christian abolitionists fighting against slavery.
• Church Stances: Modern Christian denominations widely condemn slavery and human trafficking as antithetical to Christian teaching, viewing every person as an "icon of God".

In summary, Christianity contains concepts and historical texts that have been used to both justify and condemn earthly servitude, but its core message promotes spiritual freedom and human equality, challenging oppressive systems.

 

[ding]

you believe the liars moses and abraham who claim the heavens spoke to them ... their religion of apartheid and phony commandments of servitude and denial - used to persecute and victimize the innocent.

Whether Abraham and Moses were "liars" depends on interpretation, as biblical texts show Abraham repeatedly calling his wife Sarah his "sister" out of fear (Genesis 12, 20), which many view as deception or a lack of faith, while some traditions see it as a permissible half-truth or a necessary act for survival, and Islamic traditions, though honoring Abraham as truthful, cite three instances where he is considered to have lied, including about Sarah, highlighting differing theological perspectives on prophetic fallibility and the nature of truth in extreme circumstances. Moses's accounts in the Pentateuch contain complex narratives and potentially symbolic dates, with scholarly debate focusing on historical accuracy versus theological meaning, rather than outright intentional deceit by Moses himself.

Abraham's Actions

• Biblical Accounts: Genesis describes Abraham telling Pharaoh and King Abimelech that Sarah was his sister, not his wife, leading to their attempts to take her, after which God intervened with plagues.
• Interpretations:
  • Deception/Lack of Faith: Many see this as a lie, a failure of faith in God's protection, and a morally wrong act, even if understandable due to fear.
  • Half-Truth/Contextual Truth: Some argue he was technically correct (she was a half-sister) or that deception was permissible in life-threatening situations, a "situation ethics" view.
  • Islamic View: The Quran calls Abraham truthful, but some Hadith mention three lies, including the one about Sarah, showing diverse interpretations within Islam too.

Moses's Role

• Author vs. Character: Moses is traditionally credited with writing the Torah (Pentateuch), which contains these stories.
• Scholarly Debate: The question isn't usually whether Moses himself lied, but whether the accounts he (or later redactors) wrote are historically factual or contain symbolic elements, with some scholars questioning realistic dates or events.
• Prophetic Integrity: Biblical texts state true prophets speak God's word, but also acknowledge that prophets aren't sinless, and their sins don't negate their prophetic calling.

Conclusion
Neither figure is universally condemned as a "liar" in religious traditions; rather, their actions are debated as examples of human imperfection, faith, or situational necessity, with different faiths and scholars holding varying views on the morality and historical accuracy of these events.

 

[ding]

you believe the liars moses and abraham who claim the heavens spoke to them ... their religion of apartheid and phony commandments of servitude and denial - used to persecute and victimize the innocent.

The claims that Judaism is a "religion of apartheid" and based on "phony commandments of servitude and denial" are not supported by the core religious, ethical, and historical tenets of the faith. These descriptions reflect long-standing anti-Semitic tropes rather than the reality of Jewish theology or practice.

• Core Tenets and Ethics: Judaism is fundamentally focused on social justice, the sanctity of human life, and ethical living (often summarized as Tikkun Olam or "repairing the world"). Its foundational principles emphasize empathy, charity (Tzedakah), and kindness toward the stranger, rooted in the biblical command to love one's neighbor.
• Commandments (Mitzvot): The 613 commandments in the Torah are not considered "phony" by practitioners, but rather a guide for establishing a moral society and fostering a connection with the divine. While there are laws regarding servants in the ancient, historical context of the Torah, modern Judaism and its interpretations overwhelmingly focus on human dignity, equality, and liberation, citing the Exodus from Egypt as a primary, defining narrative.
• Distinction from Politics: It is crucial to distinguish between Judaism (the religion) and Zionism or the actions of the State of Israel (political ideologies and actions). While critics often accuse Israeli policies in the occupied territories of resembling apartheid, this is a modern political charge against a nation-state, not a description of the Jewish religion itself. Many Jewish people and organizations actively oppose the occupation and discrimination.
• Anti-Semitic Tropes: Phrases describing Judaism as a religion of "servitude and denial" are recognized as dangerous stereotypes that have historically been used to promote hatred. Such claims often reduce a diverse, global population of millions to a monolith, wrongly attributing political actions to a religious group.

In summary, Judaism teaches that all human beings are created in the divine image, emphasizing, not denying, the worth of all people.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

For those who believe in the lie of Replacement Theology

The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to
declares the Lord.
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.