Mormons?

bear513

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The "problem" with the Joseph Smith religion is that it is too recent, so that many of its beliefs can be disproven. It's not just the pie-in-the-sky stuff that is not subject to measurement, it's the actual factual claims that are - hate to say it - false. Did Christ walk on water? Nobody today can disprove it. But did Joe Smith receive golden tablets from the angel Moroni, translating them from "reformed Egyptian" to English? No.

There is no genetic or archaeological evidence to support the basic history of the Book of Mormon. No artifacts, no Native Americans with Semitic genes, none of it. In fact, given the breadth of the claims, the total lack of corroboration is proof that it is all made up. Further, Smith's beliefs that the Amerindians descended from the so-called "lost tribes of Israel" was fairly common at Smith's time.

There is no such language as "reformed Egyptian," and never was. The "witnesses" to the BoM were compromised and simply cannot be believed.

The fraud of the Book of Abraham has never been explained away, as that is not really possible. Smith took a document that he presumed NOBODY would ever be able to translate, and made up a story about a biblical figure that is now part of LDS scripture. It was later translated by a competent linguist and it had nothing to do with Abraham or any Hebrew, and was off in time by centuries.

The LDS religion is, by most accounts, a valuable cultural addition to the American mosaic, producing good citizens by the hundreds of thousands. But theologically it is balderdash. Maybe all religions are, but LDS is provable balderdash.

And if stating an obvious truth makes me a bigot, then send me to jail. Guilty as charged.
Joseph Smith was killed in illinois I still can't figure that one out..



Part of Anti-Mormon violence in the U.S. Joseph Smith, the founder and leader of the Latter Day Saint movement, and his brother, Hyrum Smith, were killed by a mob in Carthage, Illinois, United States, on June 27, 1844, while awaiting trial in the town jail. ...
Resulted in: Deaths of Joseph and Hyrum Smith
Location: Carthage, Illinois, U.S.
Date: June 27, 1844; 176 years ago
Wikipedia › wiki › Death_of_Josep...
Death of Joseph Smith - Wikipedia
The early saints were driven out of several locations and eventually wound up in Nauvoo, Illinois. The church now holds a lot of property there and has maintained many of the residences that were constructed during that time.

The city swelled and the potential voting block it represented caused a lot of grief with the surrounding settlers. This was supposed to be the frontier. Members of the church didn't help their cause any with they way the treated some of the surrounding residents. The introduction of things like polygamy only further alienated those outside of Nauvoo.

Joseph Smith had been incarcertted (sp) several times on charges that would later be dropped. In one instance, a military commander ordered his execution. James Donovan, not a mormo, stood up for Smith, refused the order, and threatened the offending commander with legal action if he carried out his threat.

Violence against saints in Nauvoo caused Jospeh Smith to call up the Nauvoo Legion. This was seen as treason and he was arrested and sent to Carthage Illinois.

He stated he was going like a lamb to the slaughter.

His brother, Hyrum, and two other companions were also arrested and sent with him.

A mob, estimated at 150 men, dressed as indians stormed the jail. Smith and his brother were killed. One of the companions was badly wounded. The other was not hurt.
Wow interesting, he went all the way to Utah and back to illinois?

On horse back/or a train..

This blows my mind away
Joseph Smith never went to Utah.

He was going to leave Nauvoo (this is from memory) and head west. But he decided against it, knowing it would not end well for him.

The LDS were eventually driven from Nauvoo by mobs and headed to Winter Quarters around Council Bluffs Nebraska. They wintered there and started for the Mountain West the following Spring.

Many of them walked the entire distance pulling "handcarts" that had all their belongings.

This was all done under the direction of Brigham Young, the president of the Quorum of the Twelve.

View attachment 420789

View attachment 420790

Joseph smith never left illinois?, Good God I need to read a history book.
 

MadChemist

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The "problem" with the Joseph Smith religion is that it is too recent, so that many of its beliefs can be disproven. It's not just the pie-in-the-sky stuff that is not subject to measurement, it's the actual factual claims that are - hate to say it - false. Did Christ walk on water? Nobody today can disprove it. But did Joe Smith receive golden tablets from the angel Moroni, translating them from "reformed Egyptian" to English? No.

There is no genetic or archaeological evidence to support the basic history of the Book of Mormon. No artifacts, no Native Americans with Semitic genes, none of it. In fact, given the breadth of the claims, the total lack of corroboration is proof that it is all made up. Further, Smith's beliefs that the Amerindians descended from the so-called "lost tribes of Israel" was fairly common at Smith's time.

There is no such language as "reformed Egyptian," and never was. The "witnesses" to the BoM were compromised and simply cannot be believed.

The fraud of the Book of Abraham has never been explained away, as that is not really possible. Smith took a document that he presumed NOBODY would ever be able to translate, and made up a story about a biblical figure that is now part of LDS scripture. It was later translated by a competent linguist and it had nothing to do with Abraham or any Hebrew, and was off in time by centuries.

The LDS religion is, by most accounts, a valuable cultural addition to the American mosaic, producing good citizens by the hundreds of thousands. But theologically it is balderdash. Maybe all religions are, but LDS is provable balderdash.

And if stating an obvious truth makes me a bigot, then send me to jail. Guilty as charged.
Joseph Smith was killed in illinois I still can't figure that one out..



Part of Anti-Mormon violence in the U.S. Joseph Smith, the founder and leader of the Latter Day Saint movement, and his brother, Hyrum Smith, were killed by a mob in Carthage, Illinois, United States, on June 27, 1844, while awaiting trial in the town jail. ...
Resulted in: Deaths of Joseph and Hyrum Smith
Location: Carthage, Illinois, U.S.
Date: June 27, 1844; 176 years ago
Wikipedia › wiki › Death_of_Josep...
Death of Joseph Smith - Wikipedia
The early saints were driven out of several locations and eventually wound up in Nauvoo, Illinois. The church now holds a lot of property there and has maintained many of the residences that were constructed during that time.

The city swelled and the potential voting block it represented caused a lot of grief with the surrounding settlers. This was supposed to be the frontier. Members of the church didn't help their cause any with they way the treated some of the surrounding residents. The introduction of things like polygamy only further alienated those outside of Nauvoo.

Joseph Smith had been incarcertted (sp) several times on charges that would later be dropped. In one instance, a military commander ordered his execution. James Donovan, not a mormo, stood up for Smith, refused the order, and threatened the offending commander with legal action if he carried out his threat.

Violence against saints in Nauvoo caused Jospeh Smith to call up the Nauvoo Legion. This was seen as treason and he was arrested and sent to Carthage Illinois.

He stated he was going like a lamb to the slaughter.

His brother, Hyrum, and two other companions were also arrested and sent with him.

A mob, estimated at 150 men, dressed as indians stormed the jail. Smith and his brother were killed. One of the companions was badly wounded. The other was not hurt.
Wow interesting, he went all the way to Utah and back to illinois?

On horse back/or a train..

This blows my mind away
Joseph Smith never went to Utah.

He was going to leave Nauvoo (this is from memory) and head west. But he decided against it, knowing it would not end well for him.

The LDS were eventually driven from Nauvoo by mobs and headed to Winter Quarters around Council Bluffs Nebraska. They wintered there and started for the Mountain West the following Spring.

Many of them walked the entire distance pulling "handcarts" that had all their belongings.

This was all done under the direction of Brigham Young, the president of the Quorum of the Twelve.

View attachment 420789

View attachment 420790

Joseph smith never left illinois?, Good God I need to read a history book.
He never went West. He started in New York, Went to Ohio (as did the Church), Missouri, then Illinois where he was killed.
 

bear513

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If the Lord reveals his will through a prophet, apostle, etc. if you are going to receive the word of the Lord through his chosen servants, you better believe that they are his chosen servants or you will not believe the will of the Lord which he reveals through them. This is a personal choice and obviously you do not believe that Joseph was his chosen servant but I do. So what is your point?
My point is Joseph Smith is a false prophet. Mormonism is not the Gospel that Paul preached, and the Apostle Paul told us that even if an angel of light preached a different Gospel, that is a false gospel and the angel is accursed.
So what's new about you announcing that you think Joseph Smith is a false prophet? We already know what you think. We don't believe as you do and believe that Joseph Smith preached the SAME gospel as revealed to him by Jesus Christ himself.
So you believe that the Apostle Paul is a liar.
No, why would think that? Paul was a true Apostle of Jesus Christ.
Well, now you have a problem. Read the first chapter of Galatians. Joseph Smith claims that he received his revelation from the angel Moroni.
I'm sorry but the gospel Joseph Smith received was not another gospel but the same gospel for he had the same testimony as Paul:

Galatians 1:12
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

If you had ever read the revelations of God to Joseph Smith you would know that most of them were not from Moroni. Moroni appeared so as to show Joseph were he buried the golden plates. But the doctrines of the church were revealed from the Lord Jesus Christ himself.

So do you believe that God has revealed all that he is going to reveal to us only in the bible? Do you think it is possible for him to reveal anything more to his children? Or do you think those who profess this so called doctrine are attempting to tie the hands of God by claiming this absurd teaching. Where is the proof that this is so?
I notice you conveniently omitted the verses about another gospel from an angel. Go ahead and post those verses.
 

MadChemist

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I always say Paul/muhammad/ joseph smith were all the same.

Full of shit
That's hard for me to read.

I am sorry you feel that way.

Do you mean Paul of the New Testament ?
Yeah paul..
Wow....

What gives ?
Paul/muhammad/joseph smith told the same storys..

I don't believe them
Not wanting to argue.....can you tell me what you do believe ?
 

BS Filter

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If you want to post them, be my guest.
Gladly, just so we get the context. You really shouldn't try to deceive by doing what you did.

Only One Gospel

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
 

bear513

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I always say Paul/muhammad/ joseph smith were all the same.

Full of shit
That's hard for me to read.

I am sorry you feel that way.

Do you mean Paul of the New Testament ?
Yeah paul..
Wow....

What gives ?
Paul/muhammad/joseph smith told the same storys..

I don't believe them
Not wanting to argue.....can you tell me what you do believe ?
Hebrews 13:2

Jeremiah 29:13
 

bear513

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I always say Paul/muhammad/ joseph smith were all the same.

Full of shit
That's hard for me to read.

I am sorry you feel that way.

Do you mean Paul of the New Testament ?
Yeah paul..
Wow....

What gives ?
Paul/muhammad/joseph smith told the same storys..

I don't believe them
Not wanting to argue.....can you tell me what you do believe ?
Hebrews 13:2

Jeremiah 29:13
Once again the only two bible verses in the bible is true is Hebrews 13:2 and jeremiah 29:13
 
OP
Gracie

Gracie

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God, watching His children bicker on who is right, who is wrong, who they worship, who they believe in other than Himself.

1606199440202.png
 

onefour1

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If you want to post them, be my guest.
Gladly, just so we get the context. You really shouldn't try to deceive by doing what you did.

Only One Gospel

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
The reason Paul was giving this sermon to those of his day was because they were already on the high road to apostasy. He didn't give this sermon to Joseph Smith but to the saints of his day.


Galatians (ca. A.D. 58)

In the letter to the Galatians, Paul responded to a movement within the Church that countered his teachings with a Judaized Christianity and attacked him personally. Among the Jewish converts in the Church were those who held that members must observe certain Jewish practices to be saved. It appears from the letter that the success of the anti-Pauline Judaizers was high, which caused Paul a great deal of concern. Paul accused the Saints of turning to what he called “another gospel” under the influence of those who would “pervert the gospel of Christ.” (Gal. 1:6–7.) Among other things, he accused them of looking back to the Law of Moses for salvation (Gal. 3:1–5), observing Jewish holidays (Gal. 4:10), and accepting circumcision again (Gal. 5:2–4). So emphatic was he with regard to the apostolic authority of his message and its divine origin that he punctuated his rebuke by saying that even if “an angel from heaven” came teaching doctrine different from what he had taught, it should be rejected! (Gal. 1:6–12.)

What eventually occurred after the martyrdom of the Apostles was a complete global apostasy of the church from the face of the earth. This is the reason that in these last days the Church of Jesus Christ needed to be restored and it was through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Let me ask you how many churches today have 12 apostles who lead the church? What happened to the organization Christ set up? The answer is there was a great falling away and people have clung to apostate churches throughout the years because the true church of Jesus Christ was taken from the earth. If you want to read some good readings on the Great Apostasy of the early Christian church here are some links for you, I encourage any and all to read them:

Early Signs of the Apostasy

The Great Apostasy

This Great Apostasy of the Christian church necessitated the restitution of all things as prophesied by Peter in the following verse:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The restoration of Jesus Christ's true church has been restored to the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith. The need for this restoration came because of the world wide apostasy that occurred shortly after the death of the Apostles of Jesus Christ. This was the fulfillment of the church (who is the woman) going into the wilderness in the following verse:

Revelation 12:6
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

With the restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ in these latter days we again have Apostles and Prophets who lead the true church who are inspired of God and bring salvation to us all.
 

BS Filter

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If you want to post them, be my guest.
Gladly, just so we get the context. You really shouldn't try to deceive by doing what you did.

Only One Gospel

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
The reason Paul was giving this sermon to those of his day was because they were already on the high road to apostasy. He didn't give this sermon to Joseph Smith but to the saints of his day.


Galatians (ca. A.D. 58)

In the letter to the Galatians, Paul responded to a movement within the Church that countered his teachings with a Judaized Christianity and attacked him personally. Among the Jewish converts in the Church were those who held that members must observe certain Jewish practices to be saved. It appears from the letter that the success of the anti-Pauline Judaizers was high, which caused Paul a great deal of concern. Paul accused the Saints of turning to what he called “another gospel” under the influence of those who would “pervert the gospel of Christ.” (Gal. 1:6–7.) Among other things, he accused them of looking back to the Law of Moses for salvation (Gal. 3:1–5), observing Jewish holidays (Gal. 4:10), and accepting circumcision again (Gal. 5:2–4). So emphatic was he with regard to the apostolic authority of his message and its divine origin that he punctuated his rebuke by saying that even if “an angel from heaven” came teaching doctrine different from what he had taught, it should be rejected! (Gal. 1:6–12.)

What eventually occurred after the martyrdom of the Apostles was a complete global apostasy of the church from the face of the earth. This is the reason that in these last days the Church of Jesus Christ needed to be restored and it was through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Let me ask you how many churches today have 12 apostles who lead the church? What happened to the organization Christ set up? The answer is there was a great falling away and people have clung to apostate churches throughout the years because the true church of Jesus Christ was taken from the earth. If you want to read some good readings on the Great Apostasy of the early Christian church here are some links for you, I encourage any and all to read them:

Early Signs of the Apostasy

The Great Apostasy

This Great Apostasy of the Christian church necessitated the restitution of all things as prophesied by Peter in the following verse:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The restoration of Jesus Christ's true church has been restored to the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith. The need for this restoration came because of the world wide apostasy that occurred shortly after the death of the Apostles of Jesus Christ. This was the fulfillment of the church (who is the woman) going into the wilderness in the following verse:

Revelation 12:6
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

With the restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ in these latter days we again have Apostles and Prophets who lead the true church who are inspired of God and bring salvation to us all.
You're ignoring the point. Paul said that even if an angel gives another Gospel, let him be accursed. Smith got the so called tablets from an angel. Mormonism isn't the Gospel Paul preached.
 

onefour1

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Its the gospel Jesus Christ taught to his other sheep that were not of that fold.

John 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
 

gtopa1

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I know very little about the Mormons apart from the fact that when we invited them to early morning prayers when I was young two in particular came along regularly. They were indeed beautiful (both young ladies) and frankly I have never met finer people. They brought along a lad about our age who was related to the top guy in the States...son or grandson...and he also was a top lad. Their religion? Yeah; a bit "out there" in some ways but not much crazier than a relig about a guy who went to hell and was God.......my own belief. But I digress; I went to their church a few times at their invitation and found some members who were more aware of what they weren't than what they were. Meh; still damn fine mob imo.

Greg
 

gtopa1

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If you want to post them, be my guest.
Gladly, just so we get the context. You really shouldn't try to deceive by doing what you did.

Only One Gospel

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
The reason Paul was giving this sermon to those of his day was because they were already on the high road to apostasy. He didn't give this sermon to Joseph Smith but to the saints of his day.


Galatians (ca. A.D. 58)

In the letter to the Galatians, Paul responded to a movement within the Church that countered his teachings with a Judaized Christianity and attacked him personally. Among the Jewish converts in the Church were those who held that members must observe certain Jewish practices to be saved. It appears from the letter that the success of the anti-Pauline Judaizers was high, which caused Paul a great deal of concern. Paul accused the Saints of turning to what he called “another gospel” under the influence of those who would “pervert the gospel of Christ.” (Gal. 1:6–7.) Among other things, he accused them of looking back to the Law of Moses for salvation (Gal. 3:1–5), observing Jewish holidays (Gal. 4:10), and accepting circumcision again (Gal. 5:2–4). So emphatic was he with regard to the apostolic authority of his message and its divine origin that he punctuated his rebuke by saying that even if “an angel from heaven” came teaching doctrine different from what he had taught, it should be rejected! (Gal. 1:6–12.)

What eventually occurred after the martyrdom of the Apostles was a complete global apostasy of the church from the face of the earth. This is the reason that in these last days the Church of Jesus Christ needed to be restored and it was through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Let me ask you how many churches today have 12 apostles who lead the church? What happened to the organization Christ set up? The answer is there was a great falling away and people have clung to apostate churches throughout the years because the true church of Jesus Christ was taken from the earth. If you want to read some good readings on the Great Apostasy of the early Christian church here are some links for you, I encourage any and all to read them:

Early Signs of the Apostasy

The Great Apostasy

This Great Apostasy of the Christian church necessitated the restitution of all things as prophesied by Peter in the following verse:

Acts 3:20-21
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The restoration of Jesus Christ's true church has been restored to the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith. The need for this restoration came because of the world wide apostasy that occurred shortly after the death of the Apostles of Jesus Christ. This was the fulfillment of the church (who is the woman) going into the wilderness in the following verse:

Revelation 12:6
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

With the restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ in these latter days we again have Apostles and Prophets who lead the true church who are inspired of God and bring salvation to us all.
I heard about that many years ago; don't agree with it. But hey; if there weren't any sinners why did God send his only son??? you know the "thing"....

Greg
 

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