Hafar1014
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Its all based on faith and a distortion of Genesis
Zone1 How Do You Approach Faith?
- Thread starter HikerGuy83
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Faith is real else folks wouldn't exercise it.
HikerGuy83
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That scripture you are referencing is one given in relations to making decisions. There are irrevocable laws that have governed the universe that have existed long before the world was created. Nobody gets to claim otherwise. Go into a recommend interview and tell your Bishop that you had a burning in your bosom about drinking alcohol and you won't walk out with a recommend. LDS scripture is very clear on this point.
35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.
Next, you have revelation (i.e. burning in the bosom) in the New Testament:
Jesus makes the statement:
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
And when he was with his disciples:
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
Please explain the place of the Holy Ghost in the grand scheme of things.
As to your reference in 1 Corinthians 15, there is nothing in there about feelings. But your comment about relying on feelings is wrong if you think that is what the LDS church is about.
You might want to learn what LDS doctrine REALLY is before making any more statements about it.
Again, you are in no position, knowledgeable or not, to pass judgement on anyone else. Unless you want to post the certificate God gave you that allows you to do so.
SweetSue92
Diamond Member
1 Cor 2:15
"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one"
--That means I am equipped to judge Spiritual things, to discern them. But not to pass judgment on individuals, generally.
If you have the Holy Spirit you are similarly capable, but that does not encompass the spirit of Joseph Smith (thank God)
The burning of the bosom refers to how the Holy Ghost can confirm truth upon God's children:
Doctrine and Covenants 9:8
But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
The Holy Ghost will tell you in your mind and in your heart that something is true if it come upon you. It is confirmed upon you by both thought and feeling. Those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost can have this gift as a constant companion in their lives if they live righteously and receive this gift by one who has the authority to lay hands upon an individual and conferee this most sacred gift.
Doctrine and Covenants 121:46
The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
Tell me SweetSue92, when you experience the Holy Ghost in your life, do you not feel anything?
HikerGuy83
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And how does that reconcile with:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Am I or any other Mormon less equipped to judge Spiritual things ?
You seem to want to fight these little skirmishes, but you avoid the big questions such as those posed in the thread on Matthew 25. What's the deal?
There is no spirit of Joseph Smith any more than there is a spirit of Moses or John the Baptists. These little quirks come across as nothing more than judgmental on your part.
And it is doubtful judgement takes the place of ignorance.
HikerGuy83
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This thread has gone way off track. This question was about faith and your approach to the concept.
In Hebrews it states:
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
And in II Corinthians Paul states:
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
* Note that in 10 it says we will appear to be judged according to our labors.....hmmmmmm *
How does that apply to you.
When does faith become knowledge (perfect knowledge).
In Hebrews it states:
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
And in II Corinthians Paul states:
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
* Note that in 10 it says we will appear to be judged according to our labors.....hmmmmmm *
How does that apply to you.
When does faith become knowledge (perfect knowledge).
SweetSue92
Diamond Member
First issue: you do not need someone with authority to give you the Holy Spirit.
SweetSue92
Diamond Member
In Matthew 25 Jesus is warning us to judge fairly and mercifully, because as we judge, we will be judged. He's saying don't spend all your time focused on others' sins; your own sins are enough.
That's the "speck" in the eye.
It does not mean we are not to consider God's Word when people make claims about the faith.
And to answer: yes, you are less qualified. Anyone who believes that Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers; that they will inherit an entire planet for them and their wives in Heaven; that God is MARRIED....that is heretical. It's not Christian, however much Mormons want it to be.
HikerGuy83
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That is amazingly arrogant.
You have no absolute basis for those claims.
Especially when you say "It's not Christian". You don't own what is Christian and what is not. All you have is the Bible which is not the source of all things
And no you are NOT MORE QUALIFIED. In fact, your lack of engagement on key points only indicates you can't stand behind your bashing someone else's faith (you started this thread....did you think we'd take it lying down?). That makes you the same as a pharisee.
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HikerGuy83
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Ummmm......assuming you mean Matthew 7.
HikerGuy83
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Even though the versus FROM YOUR BIBLE tell you differently.
You don't get to make this up as you go.
Your credibility is failing.
Meriweather
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The Gospel of John notes that the Holy Spirit blows where it will. The Holy Spirit cannot be commanded; cannot be predicted.
SweetSue92
Diamond Member
I certainly don't own what is Christian or not. Jesus Christ does, He who was never a "spirit brother" with SATAN for pity's sake.
The Holy Ghost can come upon anyone to guide them to the truth. However there is a difference between one who may at times in their life be blessed to be touched by the power of the Holy Ghost and those who receive baptism by one having authority and then receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands of one having authority. A person who receives the gift of the Holy Ghost has the opportunity to have the Holy Ghost as their constant companion and guide in life.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 8:18
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
The Gift of the Holy Ghost is given to one who is baptized. It is an ordinance of the priesthood given by the laying on of hands of one having the Melchizedek priesthood. Yes, the Holy Ghost can come upon others to help guide them into The Church of Jesus Christ, but the Gift of the Holy Ghost is an ordinance given by the laying of of hands of one having authority to those who receive baptism and covenant to follow the Lord in their lives.
HikerGuy83
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SweetSue92
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So cool you've made the Holy Spirit now subject to your own people laying on hands....I mean why not. Jesus is already a "spirit brother" of Satan and God has wives....and you'll get your own planet in heaven. With your wives.
I'm just sad for Mormons who really believe.....
SweetSue92
Diamond Member
Your teachings. Jesus was just the first born son (?) Lucifer was another. So I guess Jesus is not now the 2nd person of the triune God.
Acts 8:18
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
You must feel this way about the apostles' of the Bible as well. And are you not aware that Lucifer fell from Heaven? What do you think his standing was before he fell? Was he not also among all the Sons of God who were in heaven before the world was?
Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
Lucifer was once known as a son of the morning who fell from his station in heaven. He is the offspring of the Father just as you and I and Jesus are. He rebelled against his Father in Heaven and become Satan, the devil and was cast out of heaven for his rebellion. Why do you suppose he was in heaven in the first place?
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HikerGuy83
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No, who told you Jesus and Satan were not spirit brothers?
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