Liz Cheney says Trump appears to have been ‘personally involved in planning’ 6 Jan insurrection

[Faun]

I do have a question about the Eastman memo, and the whole plan to send back the electors

This is JUST a question, because I don't know know the legality and what the constitution says about it.

Was there an actual crime? I mean, sure, it would have been a crappy thing to do, so was the national popular vote compact, but what crime was actually committed? I mean, pence never went through with it, so they crime was never actualized. What you have left would be conspiracy to commit a crime, but, in order to get that, wouldn't it require that the people conspiring to know what they were doing was illegal?

If you read the Eastman memo, what it does is cite all the violations of election laws that the states in question had committed, and give an outline for what pence could do in regards to only those states.

The memo outlines a plan based on their thought that the election had been stolen. It doesn't indicate that they knew they lost but plotted to send back the electors anyway in an effort to overturn the election.

Also, the Eastman memo does say that they would send those elections back to the States, for 7 to 10 days, so the states could look in to the errors, and IF they found the errors to be true, THEN they could send the other slate of electors.

So, if they really believed to election to be stolen and that the constitution gave pence the ability to reject electors based on that thought, then would you still be able to prove a crime, or a conspiracy to commit a crime?

Again, just asking. Someone with a legal background can answer this I'm sure.

Two things... one, it would have been unconstitutional for Pence to unilaterally reject electors; widespread fraud which could have changed the outcome of the election had not been proven.

So had Pence done that, we'd have the losers (Trump and Pence) of the election unconstitutionally stealing the office of the president. Sounds like treason to me.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Was there an actual crime?

Is that the low bar you have set? Good for you.

So I ask you: should it be a crime? Yes or no will suffice. And even if not: should we still not view this with disdain? Is this a real threat to democracy?

Gee, if it is okay with you, we would like to find.out.

 

[Oldestyle]

Are you suggesting they knew there was a solid chance of violence, and then didn't go straight to the authorities? That would be useful information, indeed.

I think I would try to put your idea in my case, if I were to prosecute the conresspeople.

They expected violence from Antifa groups. They planned on violence from Antifa groups. What they DIDN'T do is plan to breach the Capitol building!

 

[Oldestyle]

Is that the low bar you have set? Good for you.

So I ask you: should it be a crime? Yes or no will suffice. And even if not: should we still not view this with disdain? Is this a real threat to democracy?

Gee, if it is okay with you, we would like to find.out.

It either is a crime or it isn't a crime. You don't get to decide that it should be a crime because you need it to be one! Duh?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ThisIsMe wrote: If you read the Eastman memo, what it does is cite all the violations of election laws that the states in question had committed, and give an outline for what pence could do in regards to only those states. - - - The memo outlines a plan based on their thought that the election had been stolen. It doesn't indicate that they knew they lost but plotted to send back the electors anyway in an effort to overturn the election. 21OCT30-POST#680

Faun wrote: Two things... one, it would have been unconstitutional for Pence to unilaterally reject electors; widespread fraud which could have changed the outcome of the election had not been proven. 21NOV01-POST#681

NFBW wrote: Allow me to add to what Faun is explaining to further your edification on the CONSTITUTION that you are unwittingly kind of proving that DJT does not give a flying fuck about the Constitution and John Eastman was lying to his client the entire time. - - - Faun has it right and I will add the concept of “safe harbor” that let’s say by mid December the safe harbor status “constitutionally” ends any chance for SORE losers (may I call them that ThisIsMe ) to legally challenge each states’ certification that is sealed and is to be submitted to Congress. Hence the Date Jan6 to open and read them no later than January 6. I’m sure the founders in colonial times wanted to give the sealed documents time to make the journey to the Capitol. 21NOV01-POST#685

If you were to read this I think you will be able to answer all your questions and not need the help of a hifallutin lawyer./ This part Aint complicated, even for a clueless moron like DJT.

“”””” It may come and go without much fanfare, but on Tuesday, the U.S. will pass a key deadline cementing President-elect Joe Biden's victory as the 46th president.

The day, Dec. 8, is known as the "safe harbor" deadline for states to certify their results, compelling Congress to accept those results “””””

I understand you may think NPR is part of the DEEP STATE out to destroy poor victim Trump but their explanation of “safe harbor” is factual and csnnot be faked. 21NOV01-POST#685

 

[Batcat]

And I support it with the facts of your own behavior. You do. You literally just drew a distinction between GOPers who hate trump and those who don't, based on their public comments. And your distinction was a ruse, as you know as well as I do that most GOPers sucking his ass are just pretending to do so. And apparently you are happy with that and want to be lied to.

Your Biden boogeyman has nothing to do with any of that.

You refuse to admit that Joe Biden is a life long lying, corrupt politician yet complain about Trump’s lies.

The difference between Biden and Trump is that Trump has management experience. Politicians like Joe can’t manage their way out of a wet paper bag but they can fill it up with hot air, promises they never plan to keep and flat out lies.

Of course you will argue that Trump managed poorly. Think about that the next time you fill up your gas tank. Perhaps you live in a blue urban area. Hopefully if the bad guys are breaking into your home or it is on fire the police or fire department will have enough people to arrive in time to save your day. I should say enough vaccinated people.

To top everything off the Democratic Party is being taken over by batshit crazy Marxist socialists.

it will not surprise me to witness the breakup of this nation if the democrats maintain control of the presidency and both Houses of Congress in the upcoming midterms and the next presidential election. Of course if the democrats lose in a landslide it might be the beginning of the end for the Democratic Party. If so — good riddance.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Is that the low bar you have set? Good for you.

So I ask you: should it be a crime? Yes or no will suffice. And even if not: should we still not view this with disdain? Is this a real threat to democracy?

Gee, if it is okay with you, we would like to find.out.

As I said, it would have been a crappy thing to do, I was just asking if it was illegal. That's all.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ThisIsMe wrote: Again, I have been trying to keep my discussion focused around the question of the integrity of the committee, that is all 21OCT31-POST#678

NFBW wrote: And there is really nothing to talk about because thus far their integrity is intact. The integrity of those being investigated is non-existent. I suggest we discuss the integrity of both sides instead of trashing only the members of Congress that are doing exactly what they appear to believe they came to Congress to do. Defend and protect the Constitution of the UNITED STATES if America from foreign and domestic threats. Its a job made very difficult when the Constitution is under attack by a sitting , and now former, president (still attacking btw) having shown he can lie about the Constitution and his seventy million supporters don’t care - They lack the integrity to care. That includes you ThisIsMe when or if you continue to want to ban talk of the lack of integrity on the Trump side just to focus on the integrity of the people on the investigation side. Do what you want ThisIsMe but you ought to drop your one-sided attack on the Committee and talk about the entire predicament Trump and his anti-Democratic and anti-constitutional supporters, militias, media operatives and conspiracy believing nutjobs have put us, as a nation into. THATS ALK 21NOV31POST#688

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ThisIsMe wrote: As I said, it would have been a crappy thing to do, I was just asking if it was illegal. That's all 21OCT30-POST#687

NFBW wrote: I can assure you ThisIsMe that the following DJT tweet during an active chaotic attack under Jesus, Confederate and TRUMP flags against a live session of Congress with Mike Pence and his entire family present, his devoted wife, the mother of his children, his grown kids, their spouses, grandkids being whisked to safety from a vicious violent mob is not ILLEGAL. Not illegal in the the slightest. 21NOV-POST#689

2:24 p.m.: Trump tweets: "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!"

2:52 p.m.: The first FBI SWAT team enters the Capitol.

NFBW wrote: It’s not illegal but what do you think ThisIsMe about the integrity, character morality spirituality, intelligence, decency, loyalty of the man who sent that message to a rioting mob, under these trying circumstances and the fact he was sitting watching the riot unfold on TV refusing to get off his fat ass and engage the panicked calls from his own party members to call off the riot.? 21NOV-POST#689

NFBW wrote: Do you recall Correll Oldestyle ThisIsMe that DJT chose Mike Pence, the model white evangelical Christian politician to be on the ticket to give the pussy grabber - porn star fucker cred with the white evangelical Christian Republican voter base that was a must need to win the White House. AND just look at the way DJT turned on his buddy in the foxhole when his cover was no longer needed. 21NOV-POST#689

I swear to god ThisIsMe I’d bet Charles Manson and Adolph Hitler wouid not turn their loyal friend like that if they had one. 21NOV-POST#689

 

[Chillicothe]

Then one of leaders reminds them that police officers are the primary targets because they will pose the biggest threat. Odd words for a political rally huh.

Notably, sometime last week a poster, 'Rightwinger', I think....posted a pic showing the MAGAMob in DC on the 6th supposedly listening ..I think....to the speakers on the Ellipse stage. And one of the mokes is carrying a friggin'!! ax-handle. To a political rally and politician's speeches. In DC.
Odd kit for a political rally. IMHO.

In my opinion, a significant share, a critical share, of the MAGAHats that day came to stop the certification of the vote.
AND.....because Don Trump urged them to come because it would "be wild"; and Steve Bannon urged them to 'strap in'....because "All hell is gonna break loose tomorrow. It's gonna be moving. It's gonna be quick. A You have made this happen and tomorrow it's game day,"....before he then huddled with Rudy Giuliani, Michael Flynn, the lawyer Eastman at the "war room' at the Willard Hotel on the afternoon and evening of January 5th.

Those are all dots that are or will be shown to be connected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The conflict they appear to be most concerned about would be with Antifa groups.......They expected violence from Antifa groups. They planned on violence from Antifa groups.

No disrespect intended but this "ANTIFA" fig-leaf is silly.

• First it was BLM that was gonna come to DC intending violence against MAGAHats.
• Then, it was ANTIFA who was coming not to invade but to attack MAGAHats. So the MAGA's brought guns, axe-handles, hammer, clubs, MACE, zip-ties...because they were anticipating ANTIFA attacking them.
• And then, because it was the Capitol police' fault, ANTIFA ---dressed in MAGAHats ---invaded the Capitol

IMHO, this is partisan extremism. Fringie nonsense that some use to gin themselves up so they have a grievance to motivate their purposes in life.

It is silly. Nonsensical. Foolish. Laughable.

Did I say 'silly'?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

They expected violence from Antifa groups.

Liar. You go ahead and source that info for us.

And still they did not go to the authorities.

Dude, you are acting. And you are not good at it. You clearly think just making shit up is going to get you somewhere.

 

[Oldestyle]

Notably, sometime last week a poster, 'Rightwinger', I think....posted a pic showing the MAGAMob in DC on the 6th supposedly listening ..I think....to the speakers on the Ellipse stage. And one of the mokes is carrying a friggin'!! ax-handle. To a political rally and politician's speeches. In DC.
Odd kit for a political rally. IMHO.

In my opinion, a significant share, a critical share, of the MAGAHats that day came to stop the certification of the vote.
AND.....because Don Trump urged them to come because it would "be wild"; and Steve Bannon urged them to 'strap in'....because "All hell is gonna break loose tomorrow. It's gonna be moving. It's gonna be quick. A You have made this happen and tomorrow it's game day,"....before he then huddled with Rudy Giuliani, Michael Flynn, the lawyer Eastman at the "war room' at the Willard Hotel on the afternoon and evening of January 5th.

Those are all dots that are or will be shown to be connected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No disrespect intended but this "ANTIFA" fig-leaf is silly.

• First it was BLM that was gonna come to DC intending violence against MAGAHats.
• Then, it was ANTIFA who was coming not to invade but to attack MAGAHats. So the MAGA's brought guns, axe-handles, hammer, clubs, MACE, zip-ties...because they were anticipating ANTIFA attacking them.
• And then, because it was the Capitol police' fault, ANTIFA ---dressed in MAGAHats ---invaded the Capitol

IMHO, this is partisan extremism. Fringie nonsense that some use to gin themselves up so they have a grievance to motivate their purposes in life.

It is silly. Nonsensical. Foolish. Laughable.

Did I say 'silly'?

What's "silly" is watching you try to "connect the dots" to somehow turn a protest that got out of hand because of such piss poor planning by the Capitol Police into a planned assault on the Capitol building! The FBI...who let's face it...have not been the best friend of conservatives for quite some time...found no evidence of planning to assault the Capitol itself. What they found was planning to have a protest outside of the Capitol and planning for how to handle an anticipated Antifa response to their protest.

What you're doing is laughable. The whole "insurrection" narrative has ALWAYS been laughable!

 

[Oldestyle]

Liar. You go ahead and source that info for us.

And still they did not go to the authorities.

Dude, you are acting. And you are not good at it. You clearly think just making shit up is going to get you somewhere.

Oh you mean making up shit a la Adam Schiff? That kind of acting?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Oh you mean making up shit a la Adam Schiff? That kind of acting?

Your whataboutism is not going to cover for your pathological lying.

 

[Correll]

Liar. I quoted from the charging document where they planned to go inside with no arms while others waited armed outside. And the ones inside were caught on camera inside as they planned. But their plan failed because it relied on Antifa showing up and Antifa didn't.

I saw nothing in your quote about people going "inside the capitol".


Did you miss that on your cut and paste? Or was taht your confirmation bias making you see things?


Meanwhile, in the real world, four YEARS is a lot bigger than four HOURS.


Here, remember this?

 

[Faun]

What's "silly" is watching you try to "connect the dots" to somehow turn a protest that got out of hand because of such piss poor planning by the Capitol Police into a planned assault on the Capitol building! The FBI...who let's face it...have not been the best friend of conservatives for quite some time...found no evidence of planning to assault the Capitol itself. What they found was planning to have a protest outside of the Capitol and planning for how to handle an anticipated Antifa response to their protest.

What you're doing is laughable. The whole "insurrection" narrative has ALWAYS been laughable!

You're lying again as you always do. The FBI found evidence that extremist groups had plans of breaking into the Capitol.

 

[Faun]

I saw nothing in your quote about people going "inside the capitol".


Did you miss that on your cut and paste? Or was taht your confirmation bias making you see things?


Meanwhile, in the real world, four YEARS is a lot bigger than four HOURS.


Here, remember this?


View attachment 559004View attachment 559003

You're lying again. They themselves said they wanted armed Oath Keepers to wait outside. And they went inside.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Here, remember this?

I wonder if Correll remembers posting this:

Correll wrote: President Trump believes that the election was corrupted by fraud and massive changes in the rules on voting. 21SEP28-POST#670

NFBW: There is a judge’s ruling just out of Pennsylvania that confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that Correll is spreading a flagrant political lie every time he posts that DJT ‘believes’ that the election was corrupted by fraud and massive changes in the rules on voting. DJT has not believed he could have won the state of Pennsylvania but for the massive fraud there at least since last August.

Here is why in a nutshell;

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP’S campaign, ordered by a federal court judge in Pennsylvania to back up its claims of fraud in the state’s vote-by-mail system, has documented only a handful of cases of election fraud in recent years — none of which involved mail-in ballots.
Trump Team Fails to Cite Mail-in Election Fraud Cases in Court
The revelation, which came in the form of a partially redacted 524-page document produced by the Trump campaign last week, undermines the claim by Trump team operatives that mail-in ballot fraud is a grave risk to Pennsylvania voters.

The campaign is suing Pennsylvania Secretary of the Commonwealth Kathy Boockvar and each of the state’s county election boards to prevent election administrators from providing secure drop boxes for mail-in ballot returns. These drop boxes allow voters to return their mail-in ballots by hand, without sending them through the postal system and risking delays. The Trump campaign alleges that the practice “provides fraudsters an easy opportunity to engage in ballot harvesting, manipulate or destroy ballots, manufacture duplicitous votes, and sow chaos.”

In a motion last week, Citizens for Pennsylvania’s Future and the Sierra Club called on the Trump campaign to provide evidence of the existence of voter fraud, arguing that the campaign’s lawsuit was “replete with salacious allegations and dire warnings” about Pennsylvania’s elections and that they “must either be compelled to provide discovery concerning their fraud-based allegations or be precluded from pursuing these claims going forward.” Judge J. Nicholas Ranjan granted the motion, ordering the campaign to “produce such evidence in their possession, and if they have none, state as much.”
The response provided by the Trump campaign to the opposing counsel, which was shared with The Intercept and Type Investigations, contains a few scant examples of election fraud — but none of the instances in the 524-page discovery document involved mail-in ballots.

“Not only did the campaign fail to provide evidence that voter fraud was a widespread problem in Pennsylvania, they failed to provide any evidence that any misconduct occurred in the primary election or that so-called voter fraud is any sort of regular problem in Pennsylvania,” said Suzanne Almeida, interim director of Common Cause PA, one of the parties in the lawsuit. The Trump campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment for this story.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I saw nothing in your quote about people going "inside the capitol".


Did you miss that on your cut and paste? Or was taht your confirmation bias making you see things?


Meanwhile, in the real world, four YEARS is a lot bigger than four HOURS.


Here, remember this?


View attachment 559004View attachment 559003

Your whataboutism isn't going to clear your orange lard and master.

 

[theHawk]

“History has been made here today. Simultaneously you broke in through the front and through the rear! They could not stop you! You occupied the building! You caused them to stop what they were doing! They had to evacuate! They couldn’t complete their session! Mission accomplished! Excellent!” Matthew Thomas Purse JAN6 rioter

NFBW wrote: DJT’s BIG hyper-inflated misunderstanding that his WIN was stolen from him was the driving force behind the riot. DJT owns the attempt to politically steal the election from 81 million Democrats. 21OCT29-POST#499

Oldestyle wrote: It was the driving force behind the "protest", Not Fooled! Not the riot. 21OCT29-POST#500

NFBW wrote: Ohhhh? DJT’s MASSIVE MISUNDERSTANDING that the election was stolen from him, was the driving force behind the rally, but not the riot. I agree with you Oldstyle saying that the purpose of the “rally” was to politically (but peacefully) steal the election from 81 million Democrats. I wonder if ThisIsMe agrees with you as well. But when you suggest that the 1000 or so “peaceful election thieves” only became violent and attacked the Capitol because WOW! “they don’t have enough cops to keep us from going in” .. I think you have fallen completely out of your rocker and can’t get up . Here is one of DJT’s “peaceful’ election thieves turned violent due to lack of cops: 21OCT29-POST#501

“”” On Jan. 6 Matthew Thomas Purse, a 45-year-old Navy veteran from Irvine, California, arrived at the Capitol with a red patch reading “DON’T SHOOT — PRESS”

He Dressed Up As Press To Storm The Capitol. Now We Know He Runs A White Nationalist Website.

Matthew Purse was one of the most malevolent characters in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6. The horrifying extent of his extremism has gone unreported, until now.

www.huffpost.com

His presence also undercuts the revisionist right-wing narrative that the rioters were merely a group of bumbling MAGA tourists, as opposed to what they really were: the vanguard of a dangerous, racist mass movement hellbent on destroying what exists of American democracy. - - - He Dressed As Press To Storm The Capitol. Now We Know He Runs A White Nationalist Website. - - - Matthew Purse was one of the most malevolent characters in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6. The horrifying extent of his extremism has gone unreported, until now.
By Christopher Mathias 10/28/2021 “””

NFBW wrote: Matthew Thomas Purse grabbed a bullhorn as the Jan6 Capitol attackers broke through the barricades and told his fellow rioters in quotes below: 21OCT29-POST#501 - - - - ”” “First of all, mission accomplished, Patriots,” Purse said to scattered cheers from the right-wing mob that had just stormed, vandalized and looted the building, disrupting a joint session of Congress, according to a video reviewed by HuffPost. “History has been made here today. Simultaneously you broke in through the front and through the rear! They could not stop you! You occupied the building! You caused them to stop what they were doing! They had to evacuate! They couldn’t complete their session! Mission accomplished! Excellent!” 21JAN06-mtPURSE-white supremacist mission accomplished “”””

Poor little Marxists, still trying to get something on President Trump.

It must suck to be such losers. I mean you supposedly “won” the last election with historic numbers, yet you can’t talk about all the wonderful things going on thanks to new policies. So all you can do is ramp up the fear mongering of an “insurrection” without guns and where no one was charged with insurrection.