How Do We Know Jesus Rose Again?

[norwegen]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

What? The justice Jesus meted out in a Jewish temple was sedition against Rome?

Have you read the New Testament? Jesus constantly lashed out against the Jews, never against Rome. Jesus came to redeem his people, Israel, and showed little regard for Rome one way or the other. What he hated was the generations of corruption in the temple that his generation of Pharisees and their scribes was perpetuating.

ROFLMAO-------not in the Temple----in the TEMPLE COURT YARD which was opened to gentiles-------Corruption IN THE TEMPLE--by the Pharisees? ------more news for you---the
Temple was CONTROLLED by the SADDUCEES who were Roman shills----actually appointed by the Romans----just as was the EDOMITE
HEROD. The Pharisees despised both. In what sort of Temple corruption could the
PHARISEES actually be involved? Actually
it was the PHARISEE SANHEDRIN (judges) who acquitted Jesus-------they could have killed him even without a trial

The Sadducees were the higher priesthood and nobility who centered their authority on the temple, true, but they were Roman shills? Can you point to some evidence of that? That's very interesting.

Jesus lambasted the Pharisees, of course, who derived their authority from Torah and the Mosaic Law, but he did not lambast the Sadducees. Unless of course that's what he did when he overturned the temple tables. The Sadducees ran the temple schema, after all. And would the Sadducees not have been the object of Christ's derision when he foretold the destruction of their precious house of stone?

You may raise a valid point. Maybe. It certainly appears, though, that all the Jews (except perhaps the Essenes) were the targets of Christ's judgment. The Law and the temple both burned up in the fire.

And according to the New Testament, the Romans were merely God's tool in accomplishing that end.

 

[irosie91]

FUTILITARIANISM:
That feeling when you have to judge a man who is accused of a crime but who doesn’t appear to be guilty but the elites and the mob want him dead so you decide to kill him anyway because it seems like it will pacify the mob and make the problem go away but then he comes back after three days and 2000 years later 2,300,000,000 people are still worshipping him.

You bought into that one too?-----Pilate murdered by crucifixion an estimated 20,000
pharisee jews in his ten year stint--------by
"POPULAR DEMAND"???? because he was
afraid of pharisee jews' objections? ----did he use lotion on his 20,000 times washed hands?

 

[norwegen]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

Jesus committed no crime against Rome. That’s why he bounced around between Herod and Pilate. None could find blame.

try again------he was a fugitive from ROMAN JUSTICE until the Sadducean "HIGH PRIEST" CAIAPHAS handed him over to PONTIUS PILATE. You really want to believe that fairy tale that Pontius washed his hands? You really want to believe that THE JEWS "wanted to kill him"-----but just could not figure out how to do it? "The jews liked" Herod, Pontius Pilate and Caiaphas with equal and reciprocated passion at that time <<<< it is a very suppressed history--------kinda like the suppression of the ongoing body count in the major cities like New York, Portland, Chicago-----etc etc

Do you have some extra-biblical literature to verify that he was a fugitive from Roman justice?

If not, perhaps you can show us in the Bible the Roman laws he violated and his flight from Roman authorities. Caiaphas was Jewish.

I can provide the name of a very readable and simple book for your Simple mind---"PASSOVER PLOT" by Hugh Schoenfeld (spelling?) Caiaphas was a SADDUCEAN JEW------despised by the Pharisees as a
"traitor" Jesus was a pharisee. His body was interred in the family crypt of a prominent
Pharisee jew. ------back then ---pharisees and
sadducees were not doing each other favors. Sadducees WERE doing Romans favors
--------sadducees are---well......sorta EXTINCT

Hugh Schonfield is not extra-biblical literature. He's post-biblical literature.

 

[surada]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

Jesus committed no crime against Rome. That’s why he bounced around between Herod and Pilate. None could find blame.

try again------he was a fugitive from ROMAN JUSTICE until the Sadducean "HIGH PRIEST" CAIAPHAS handed him over to PONTIUS PILATE. You really want to believe that fairy tale that Pontius washed his hands? You really want to believe that THE JEWS "wanted to kill him"-----but just could not figure out how to do it? "The jews liked" Herod, Pontius Pilate and Caiaphas with equal and reciprocated passion at that time <<<< it is a very suppressed history--------kinda like the suppression of the ongoing body count in the major cities like New York, Portland, Chicago-----etc etc

Do you have some extra-biblical literature to verify that he was a fugitive from Roman justice?

If not, perhaps you can show us in the Bible the Roman laws he violated and his flight from Roman authorities.

 

[Weatherman2020]

FUTILITARIANISM:
That feeling when you have to judge a man who is accused of a crime but who doesn’t appear to be guilty but the elites and the mob want him dead so you decide to kill him anyway because it seems like it will pacify the mob and make the problem go away but then he comes back after three days and 2000 years later 2,300,000,000 people are still worshipping him.

You bought into that one too?-----Pilate murdered by crucifixion an estimated 20,000
pharisee jews in his ten year stint--------by
"POPULAR DEMAND"???? because he was
afraid of pharisee jews' objections? ----did he use lotion on his 20,000 times washed hands?

Your fantasy still only lies inside your head.
And topic is the resurrection, not the voices in your head.

 

[irosie91]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

Jesus committed no crime against Rome. That’s why he bounced around between Herod and Pilate. None could find blame.

try again------he was a fugitive from ROMAN JUSTICE until the Sadducean "HIGH PRIEST" CAIAPHAS handed him over to PONTIUS PILATE. You really want to believe that fairy tale that Pontius washed his hands? You really want to believe that THE JEWS "wanted to kill him"-----but just could not figure out how to do it? "The jews liked" Herod, Pontius Pilate and Caiaphas with equal and reciprocated passion at that time <<<< it is a very suppressed history--------kinda like the suppression of the ongoing body count in the major cities like New York, Portland, Chicago-----etc etc

Your fantasy only lies in your head. It’s well documented what Pilate said about Jesus, even non Christian historians of the time.

non-christian historians like Constantine, Paul
and some guy from no-where like "JOHN"----and, of course LUKE. Read some real history.

Feel free to link.
But I’m referring to Tacitus and Joesephus who lived at the time.

the only references to Jesus in the writing of
JOSEPHUS-----have been determined to be
insertions (tiny little insertions at that) and-----as far as I recall NEVER quoted Pilate. As to Tacitus, his comment SIMPLY confirms the ALREADY widely known belief that Jesus was crucified----ie nothing new or unique. ----no
handwashing history------lots of "Pilate crucified lots pharisees" (Josephus was a
pharisee)

 

[surada]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

Jesus committed no crime against Rome. That’s why he bounced around between Herod and Pilate. None could find blame.

try again------he was a fugitive from ROMAN JUSTICE until the Sadducean "HIGH PRIEST" CAIAPHAS handed him over to PONTIUS PILATE. You really want to believe that fairy tale that Pontius washed his hands? You really want to believe that THE JEWS "wanted to kill him"-----but just could not figure out how to do it? "The jews liked" Herod, Pontius Pilate and Caiaphas with equal and reciprocated passion at that time <<<< it is a very suppressed history--------kinda like the suppression of the ongoing body count in the major cities like New York, Portland, Chicago-----etc etc

Do you have some extra-biblical literature to verify that he was a fugitive from Roman justice?

If not, perhaps you can show us in the Bible the Roman laws he violated and his flight from Roman authorities. Caiaphas was Jewish.

I can provide the name of a very readable and simple book for your Simple mind---"PASSOVER PLOT" by Hugh Schoenfeld (spelling?) Caiaphas was a SADDUCEAN JEW------despised by the Pharisees as a
"traitor" Jesus was a pharisee. His body was interred in the family crypt of a prominent
Pharisee jew. ------back then ---pharisees and
sadducees were not doing each other favors. Sadducees WERE doing Romans favors
--------sadducees are---well......sorta EXTINCT

Hugh Schonfield is not extra-biblical literature. He's post-biblical literature.

Oh, he's the guy who wrote the Passover Plot.

Jesus was safe in the north.. Herod Agrippa didn't care about Jesus. It was the Jerusalemites who hated Jesus.

 

[surada]

A Harmony of the Life of Jesus - The Sadducees

The Sadducees - Bible History

www.bible-history.com

It was Sadducean chief priests who condemned Jesus at a night-time trial and handed him over to Pilate. The Sadducees were primarily responsible for trying to suppress the preaching of Peter and the other apostles when they proclaimed that Jesus had risen from the dead. As the destruction of the temple in AD 70 destroyed their reason for existence, the Sadducees did not survive this period.

 

[irosie91]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

What? The justice Jesus meted out in a Jewish temple was sedition against Rome?

Have you read the New Testament? Jesus constantly lashed out against the Jews, never against Rome. Jesus came to redeem his people, Israel, and showed little regard for Rome one way or the other. What he hated was the generations of corruption in the temple that his generation of Pharisees and their scribes was perpetuating.

ROFLMAO-------not in the Temple----in the TEMPLE COURT YARD which was opened to gentiles-------Corruption IN THE TEMPLE--by the Pharisees? ------more news for you---the
Temple was CONTROLLED by the SADDUCEES who were Roman shills----actually appointed by the Romans----just as was the EDOMITE
HEROD. The Pharisees despised both. In what sort of Temple corruption could the
PHARISEES actually be involved? Actually
it was the PHARISEE SANHEDRIN (judges) who acquitted Jesus-------they could have killed him even without a trial

The Sadducees were the higher priesthood and nobility who centered their authority on the temple, true, but they were Roman shills? Can you point to some evidence of that? That's very interesting.

Jesus lambasted the Pharisees, of course, who derived their authority from Torah and the Mosaic Law, but he did not lambast the Sadducees. Unless of course that's what he did when he overturned the temple tables. The Sadducees ran the temple schema, after all. And would the Sadducees not have been the object of Christ's derision when he foretold the destruction of their precious house of stone?

You may raise a valid point. Maybe. It certainly appears, though, that all the Jews (except perhaps the Essenes) were the targets of Christ's judgment. The Law and the temple both burned up in the fire.

And according to the New Testament, the Romans were merely God's tool in accomplishing that end.

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

Jesus committed no crime against Rome. That’s why he bounced around between Herod and Pilate. None could find blame.

try again------he was a fugitive from ROMAN JUSTICE until the Sadducean "HIGH PRIEST" CAIAPHAS handed him over to PONTIUS PILATE. You really want to believe that fairy tale that Pontius washed his hands? You really want to believe that THE JEWS "wanted to kill him"-----but just could not figure out how to do it? "The jews liked" Herod, Pontius Pilate and Caiaphas with equal and reciprocated passion at that time <<<< it is a very suppressed history--------kinda like the suppression of the ongoing body count in the major cities like New York, Portland, Chicago-----etc etc

Do you have some extra-biblical literature to verify that he was a fugitive from Roman justice?

If not, perhaps you can show us in the Bible the Roman laws he violated and his flight from Roman authorities. Caiaphas was Jewish.

I can provide the name of a very readable and simple book for your Simple mind---"PASSOVER PLOT" by Hugh Schoenfeld (spelling?) Caiaphas was a SADDUCEAN JEW------despised by the Pharisees as a
"traitor" Jesus was a pharisee. His body was interred in the family crypt of a prominent
Pharisee jew. ------back then ---pharisees and
sadducees were not doing each other favors. Sadducees WERE doing Romans favors
--------sadducees are---well......sorta EXTINCT

Hugh Schonfield is not extra-biblical literature. He's post-biblical literature.

Oh, he's the guy who wrote the Passover Plot.

Jesus was safe in the north.. Herod Agrippa didn't care about Jesus. It was the Jerusalemites who hated Jesus.

Jesus was "safe in the GALIL"?-----what did he do--------take a trip to Jerusalem and voluntarily climb up on a cross? The action took place IN JERUSALEM----the sermon on the mount, the "last supper", the attack on the money changers, ----do you believe that he had a JET PLANE? ------try to cope----Jesus was actually a RELATIVE of the real historical figure "JOHN THE BAPTIST"---whom Herod murdered. John and Jesus were fellow travelers. Families were tight in those days.

 

[norwegen]

A Harmony of the Life of Jesus - The Sadducees

The Sadducees - Bible History

www.bible-history.com

It was Sadducean chief priests who condemned Jesus at a night-time trial and handed him over to Pilate. The Sadducees were primarily responsible for trying to suppress the preaching of Peter and the other apostles when they proclaimed that Jesus had risen from the dead. As the destruction of the temple in AD 70 destroyed their reason for existence, the Sadducees did not survive this period.

The resurrection the Pharisees preached was a biological resurrection. The Sadducees disagreed with the Pharisees on any concept of resurrection, and sought Jesus’ opinion on it, posing to him a question about bodily resurrection; that is, a new life in which people continue to marry (Mk 12:18-23). Jesus answered that in the resurrection, people do not marry but are like the angels (Mk 12:25). Jesus preached a spiritual resurrection.

Resurrection was not in the material. It was not in houses, brothers, sisters, parents, or children (Mt 19:29). The Pharisees believed that decomposed human bodies would reconstitute and rise up out of the ground. Hence their disagreement with Jesus and then later with Paul.

Although Jesus was resurrected spiritually on the Cross, his corporeal resurrection three days later captured most of the apostles' and primitive Christians' attention, probably because a corporeal resurrection would have been the more unbelievable.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Much of the story of Jesus rising is based upon the account of Saul of Tarsus. The traditional explanation is that Saul saw Jesus as risen, was struck blind for three days, became a convert and then went on to be the biggest mover in establishing the Christian Church.

My take on the entire situation is entirely different, as I see Saul as a charlatan, instead. He was a dedicated persecuter of Jesus' followers while Jesus was alive, and was actively trying to destroy Jesus' movement. Upon Jesus's death, he saw an opportunity, not to destroy the movement, but co-opt it, thus replacing Jesus as the most important figure in it. He makes up some mumbo Jumbo about going blind, starts up a new church as seperate from the Jewish faith Jesus followed and essentially takes over. Jesus warned about wolves in sheep's clothing, and I see Paul as that wolf.

 

[irosie91]

A Harmony of the Life of Jesus - The Sadducees

The Sadducees - Bible History

www.bible-history.com

It was Sadducean chief priests who condemned Jesus at a night-time trial and handed him over to Pilate. The Sadducees were primarily responsible for trying to suppress the preaching of Peter and the other apostles when they proclaimed that Jesus had risen from the dead. As the destruction of the temple in AD 70 destroyed their reason for existence, the Sadducees did not survive this period.

Surada ---you make another very COMMONPLACE MISTAKE----you have ASSUMED that the "HIGH PRIEST" was a judge. NOPE----not at all------ Caiaphas was not a judge on the SANHEDRIN----NOPE!!!! The Sadducees existed only FOR THE TEMPLE? Was your Sunday school teacher INEBRIATED when she told you that
one? For the record---"Sadducee" was a
sect that was famous for its members selling out to the Romans

 

[Crepitus]

Look at the evidence. The existence of Jesus is not in question, his followers and those who never followed him write of his existence.

But how do we know he rose?
Circumstantial evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

First, it was a woman who came back and told the sulking men Jesus had returned. If men are going to write a fictional account, they aren’t going to put the woman in the spotlight and the men in the woe is me self pity role.

Second, the question of delusions. Many of the witnesses who saw him did not recognize him at first. Every psychologist will tell you people who have delusions will not do that.

Third, the actions of those who witnessed a risen Jesus. The eleven disciples spent the rest of their lives in great mortal danger spreading the word on what they had witnessed. All but one were eventually murdered for doing so. John died of natural causes banished on a remote island for spreading his account. People are not going to suffer and die for something they know is false.

A. Jesus having existed is not a given.

B. How do we know some bronze age con-man didn't hide the corpse and set himself up as a god?

 

[surada]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

What? The justice Jesus meted out in a Jewish temple was sedition against Rome?

Have you read the New Testament? Jesus constantly lashed out against the Jews, never against Rome. Jesus came to redeem his people, Israel, and showed little regard for Rome one way or the other. What he hated was the generations of corruption in the temple that his generation of Pharisees and their scribes was perpetuating.

ROFLMAO-------not in the Temple----in the TEMPLE COURT YARD which was opened to gentiles-------Corruption IN THE TEMPLE--by the Pharisees? ------more news for you---the
Temple was CONTROLLED by the SADDUCEES who were Roman shills----actually appointed by the Romans----just as was the EDOMITE
HEROD. The Pharisees despised both. In what sort of Temple corruption could the
PHARISEES actually be involved? Actually
it was the PHARISEE SANHEDRIN (judges) who acquitted Jesus-------they could have killed him even without a trial

The Sadducees were the higher priesthood and nobility who centered their authority on the temple, true, but they were Roman shills? Can you point to some evidence of that? That's very interesting.

Jesus lambasted the Pharisees, of course, who derived their authority from Torah and the Mosaic Law, but he did not lambast the Sadducees. Unless of course that's what he did when he overturned the temple tables. The Sadducees ran the temple schema, after all. And would the Sadducees not have been the object of Christ's derision when he foretold the destruction of their precious house of stone?

You may raise a valid point. Maybe. It certainly appears, though, that all the Jews (except perhaps the Essenes) were the targets of Christ's judgment. The Law and the temple both burned up in the fire.

And according to the New Testament, the Romans were merely God's tool in accomplishing that end.

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

Jesus committed no crime against Rome. That’s why he bounced around between Herod and Pilate. None could find blame.

try again------he was a fugitive from ROMAN JUSTICE until the Sadducean "HIGH PRIEST" CAIAPHAS handed him over to PONTIUS PILATE. You really want to believe that fairy tale that Pontius washed his hands? You really want to believe that THE JEWS "wanted to kill him"-----but just could not figure out how to do it? "The jews liked" Herod, Pontius Pilate and Caiaphas with equal and reciprocated passion at that time <<<< it is a very suppressed history--------kinda like the suppression of the ongoing body count in the major cities like New York, Portland, Chicago-----etc etc

Do you have some extra-biblical literature to verify that he was a fugitive from Roman justice?

If not, perhaps you can show us in the Bible the Roman laws he violated and his flight from Roman authorities. Caiaphas was Jewish.

I can provide the name of a very readable and simple book for your Simple mind---"PASSOVER PLOT" by Hugh Schoenfeld (spelling?) Caiaphas was a SADDUCEAN JEW------despised by the Pharisees as a
"traitor" Jesus was a pharisee. His body was interred in the family crypt of a prominent
Pharisee jew. ------back then ---pharisees and
sadducees were not doing each other favors. Sadducees WERE doing Romans favors
--------sadducees are---well......sorta EXTINCT

Hugh Schonfield is not extra-biblical literature. He's post-biblical literature.

Oh, he's the guy who wrote the Passover Plot.

Jesus was safe in the north.. Herod Agrippa didn't care about Jesus. It was the Jerusalemites who hated Jesus.

Jesus was "safe in the GALIL"?-----what did he do--------take a trip to Jerusalem and voluntarily climb up on a cross? The action took place IN JERUSALEM----the sermon on the mount, the "last supper", the attack on the money changers, ----do you believe that he had a JET PLANE? ------try to cope----Jesus was actually a RELATIVE of the real historical figure "JOHN THE BAPTIST"---whom Herod murdered. John and Jesus were fellow travelers. Families were tight in those days.

In the North around Galilee and the Decapolis cities. They were more prosperous than Jerusalem and the Jews despised them. Jesus went to Jerusalem for the Passover.

Herod Agrippa was reluctant to kill John the Baptist .. He was tricked into it by Salome and her mother.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Look at the evidence. The existence of Jesus is not in question, his followers and those who never followed him write of his existence.

But how do we know he rose?
Circumstantial evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

First, it was a woman who came back and told the sulking men Jesus had returned. If men are going to write a fictional account, they aren’t going to put the woman in the spotlight and the men in the woe is me self pity role.

Second, the question of delusions. Many of the witnesses who saw him did not recognize him at first. Every psychologist will tell you people who have delusions will not do that.

Third, the actions of those who witnessed a risen Jesus. The eleven disciples spent the rest of their lives in great mortal danger spreading the word on what they had witnessed. All but one were eventually murdered for doing so. John died of natural causes banished on a remote island for spreading his account. People are not going to suffer and die for something they know is false.

A. Jesus having existed is not a given.

B. How do we know some bronze age con-man didn't hide the corpse and set himself up as a god?

Did Alexander the Great or Plato exist?

 

[Crepitus]

Look at the evidence. The existence of Jesus is not in question, his followers and those who never followed him write of his existence.

But how do we know he rose?
Circumstantial evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

First, it was a woman who came back and told the sulking men Jesus had returned. If men are going to write a fictional account, they aren’t going to put the woman in the spotlight and the men in the woe is me self pity role.

Second, the question of delusions. Many of the witnesses who saw him did not recognize him at first. Every psychologist will tell you people who have delusions will not do that.

Third, the actions of those who witnessed a risen Jesus. The eleven disciples spent the rest of their lives in great mortal danger spreading the word on what they had witnessed. All but one were eventually murdered for doing so. John died of natural causes banished on a remote island for spreading his account. People are not going to suffer and die for something they know is false.

A. Jesus having existed is not a given.

B. How do we know some bronze age con-man didn't hide the corpse and set himself up as a god?

Did Alexander the Great or Plato exist?

Of course, although plato might not be so sure.

 

[surada]

A Harmony of the Life of Jesus - The Sadducees

The Sadducees - Bible History

www.bible-history.com

It was Sadducean chief priests who condemned Jesus at a night-time trial and handed him over to Pilate. The Sadducees were primarily responsible for trying to suppress the preaching of Peter and the other apostles when they proclaimed that Jesus had risen from the dead. As the destruction of the temple in AD 70 destroyed their reason for existence, the Sadducees did not survive this period.

Surada ---you make another very COMMONPLACE MISTAKE----you have ASSUMED that the "HIGH PRIEST" was a judge. NOPE----not at all------ Caiaphas was not a judge on the SANHEDRIN----NOPE!!!! The Sadducees existed only FOR THE TEMPLE? Was your Sunday school teacher INEBRIATED when she told you that
one? For the record---"Sadducee" was a
sect that was famous for its members selling out to the Romans

Yes, the Sadducees were secure under Roman rule.. so were the Herodians.

Who Was Caiaphas? High Priest at the Time of Jesus

https://www.learnreligions.com/caiaphas-high

...
Mar 04, 2021 · Caiaphas accused Jesus of blasphemy, a crime punishable by death under Jewish law. But the Sanhedrin, or high council, of which Caiaphas was president, did not have the authority to execute people. So Caiaphas turned Jesus over to the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, who could carry out a death sentence. Caiaphas tried to convince Pilate that Jesus was a threat to Roman stability and had …

 

[irosie91]

Look at the evidence. The existence of Jesus is not in question, his followers and those who never followed him write of his existence.

But how do we know he rose?
Circumstantial evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

First, it was a woman who came back and told the sulking men Jesus had returned. If men are going to write a fictional account, they aren’t going to put the woman in the spotlight and the men in the woe is me self pity role.

Second, the question of delusions. Many of the witnesses who saw him did not recognize him at first. Every psychologist will tell you people who have delusions will not do that.

Third, the actions of those who witnessed a risen Jesus. The eleven disciples spent the rest of their lives in great mortal danger spreading the word on what they had witnessed. All but one were eventually murdered for doing so. John died of natural causes banished on a remote island for spreading his account. People are not going to suffer and die for something they know is false.

A. Jesus having existed is not a given.

B. How do we know some bronze age con-man didn't hide the corpse and set himself up as a god?

I believe that Jesus existed----he was such a TYPICAL PHARISEE JEW of his time-----that
rise from the dead thing-------uh uh

 

[Weatherman2020]

OK. Let me get this straight.

So some dude named Jesus is a bit of a rabble rouser. Often rails against the local and Roman government.

Then one day he gathers up a gang of a dozen thugs and occupies and violently attacks a market while armed with a scourge. And took the coins.

That's called armed robbery in today's parlance.

Today that could get you several years in prison.

Back then, armed robbery could get you crucified.

Can you identify all the times Jesus defied Roman authorities or violated Roman laws?

His problem with the money changers wasn't about the Temple Tax. It was about shortchanging the poor and the pilgrims to the Temple. They were just cheating the poor.

for a "scholar" such as yourself--SURADIE, your statement is EXCRUTIATINGLY IDIOTIC.
There is EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE that the PHARISEES despised the money changers who were lackeys of the ROMAN APPOINTED SADDUCEAN priests-------try to learn a bit of history. The foray into the temple courtyard nails Jesus for what he was-----a ROME HATING PHARISEE. It was an act of SEDITION AGAINST ROME and had nothing to do with short-changing anyone-------well----at least you did not do the usual sunday school bs ---"da high priests were grabbing taxes from da poor"

Jesus committed no crime against Rome. That’s why he bounced around between Herod and Pilate. None could find blame.

try again------he was a fugitive from ROMAN JUSTICE until the Sadducean "HIGH PRIEST" CAIAPHAS handed him over to PONTIUS PILATE. You really want to believe that fairy tale that Pontius washed his hands? You really want to believe that THE JEWS "wanted to kill him"-----but just could not figure out how to do it? "The jews liked" Herod, Pontius Pilate and Caiaphas with equal and reciprocated passion at that time <<<< it is a very suppressed history--------kinda like the suppression of the ongoing body count in the major cities like New York, Portland, Chicago-----etc etc

Your fantasy only lies in your head. It’s well documented what Pilate said about Jesus, even non Christian historians of the time.

non-christian historians like Constantine, Paul
and some guy from no-where like "JOHN"----and, of course LUKE. Read some real history.

Feel free to link.
But I’m referring to Tacitus and Joesephus who lived at the time.

the only references to Jesus in the writing of
JOSEPHUS-----have been determined to be
insertions (tiny little insertions at that) and-----as far as I recall NEVER quoted Pilate. As to Tacitus, his comment SIMPLY confirms the ALREADY widely known belief that Jesus was crucified----ie nothing new or unique. ----no
handwashing history------lots of "Pilate crucified lots pharisees" (Josephus was a
pharisee)

And none of the disciples were murdered?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Look at the evidence. The existence of Jesus is not in question, his followers and those who never followed him write of his existence.

But how do we know he rose?
Circumstantial evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

First, it was a woman who came back and told the sulking men Jesus had returned. If men are going to write a fictional account, they aren’t going to put the woman in the spotlight and the men in the woe is me self pity role.

Second, the question of delusions. Many of the witnesses who saw him did not recognize him at first. Every psychologist will tell you people who have delusions will not do that.

Third, the actions of those who witnessed a risen Jesus. The eleven disciples spent the rest of their lives in great mortal danger spreading the word on what they had witnessed. All but one were eventually murdered for doing so. John died of natural causes banished on a remote island for spreading his account. People are not going to suffer and die for something they know is false.

A. Jesus having existed is not a given.

B. How do we know some bronze age con-man didn't hide the corpse and set himself up as a god?

Did Alexander the Great or Plato exist?

Of course, although plato might not be so sure.

Yet the earliest record of Alexander the Great is 400 years after his death, Plato 1,400 years after.