Zone1 Why can't there be a serious intellectual discusion about Jesus' gender and sexuality?

[HaShev]

Someone was offended by this artwork someone released of a trans Jesus, but they weren't offended by the real travesty of the Sun cross (Baal cross) symbol in it.
I ask you all why can't the artist have this discussion if there is good evidence he might have a secret worth sharing.

Actually it's a valid discussion as to the Gender of 1 of the trinity of characters used for the Jesus image and combined story.
Resarch the female skeleton of Jesus, the head is hiding in Neuillville --France
At one time The Vatican insisted they found the tomb of Jesus.About the story it was researched by British biochemist Anthony Harris who is formerly from the TRINITY College in Dublin (so non biased or more biased towards the Church). He saw many possibilities that Jesus was a woman with turners syndrom, because only a woman with this condition is known to sweat blood (Luke 22:43-44)
Around the time of the Inquisition
There were found the catheri relics one labeled "Caput LVIII" contained the skull of a woman and this was sworn to be the flesh and blood tomb of Jesus.Josephus reported Jesus to be a mere 5 foot tall. Other history reports Jesus to be slightly built and without beard.
These facts can be read in the old Omni magazine Dec 1988 issue or his book titled the Sacred Virgin and the Holy Whore.
Hey I don't write these things or make them up, I just leave open all possiblities for us all to ponder, I basically just report what I see and what you all miss, even as connections appear to support these possibilities.
The relic:
A great head of gilded silver, most beautiful, and constituting theimage of a woman. Inside were two head bones, wrapped in a cloth of white linen, with another red cloth around it. A label was attached, on which was written the legend Caput LVIIIm. The bones inside were those of a rather small woman."

Other evidence would be the fact that when they discovered the bones to be of a woman that is the time period where the forged shroud of an over 6'
bearded man thst magically appeared on the scene.

Fact: Jesus relationships reveal it's possibility:
"A newly translated Gnostic gospel, entitled The Secret Book of Judas of Kerioth, According to this seeminglyauthentic early Cainite-Ophite text, translated from the Coptic by Mohammed al-Murtada and Francis Bendik, said Jesus had an active bisexual love life, including relations with John, Lazarus and Mary Magdelene.
Also validating that: is
in the missing portions of Mark it shows Jesus sleeping with a naked young rich man, but also the NT validates this:
"...there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold of him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked." (Mark 14:51-52). Was this the companion that Luke observed with Jesus inside the garden?

"...he that is courageous among the mighty shall flee away naked on that day..."(Amos 2:16----the Hebrew 'labab' translated 'flee away' here, actually means 'transported with love', and also 'ravished'). Now that certainly fits this episode of the young man fleeing away naked from Jesus outside the garden of Gethsemane.

Who was this young man if not perhaps the rich man whom "Then Jesus beholding him, loved him..."(Mark 10:21). Perhaps it was the rich man Lazarus, of whom "...he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth..."(John 11:11----The Greek 'philos' translated 'friend', also means 'dear' and 'fond of').

Fact: the only historical person named Jesus was in 70 or 90 ad and was a name used for a woman.
Joshua (Hosea) is used for a man.

Fact: the truth Gospels shows us the original trinity
at that time was Father- Mother -Son,
Jesus was therefore both man and Woman.

Fact: The church is clothed in the lady worship.

Fact:they claim the central source Q used to write the gospels came from a woman.

Fact: in the Book of Thomas he speaks of the day body parts will be changed and man made female and female into men, but why?
How would he know unless he was transformed?
Which brings us to:
Fact: He always spoke about being transformed.

Discuss: was Jesus like Chaz Bono, a woman living as a man, or like woman characters in history (Joan of Arc) who were mischaracterized & posed as men to compete in a male dominant society?
*(in my best Seinfeld voice: "not that there was anything wrong with that")

 

[progressive hunter]

Someone was offended by this artwork someone released of a trans Jesus, but they weren't offended by the real travesty of the Sun cross (Baal cross) symbol in it.
I ask you all why can't the artist have this discussion if there is good evidence he might have a secret worth sharing.

Actually it's a valid discussion as to the Gender of 1 of the trinity of characters used for the Jesus image and combined story.
Resarch the female skeleton of Jesus, the head is hiding in Neuillville --France
At one time The Vatican insisted they found the tomb of Jesus.About the story it was researched by British biochemist Anthony Harris who is formerly from the TRINITY College in Dublin (so non biased or more biased towards the Church)He saw many possibilities that Jesus was a woman with turners syndrom because only a woman with this condition. is known to sweat blood (Luke 22:43-44)
Around the time of the Inquisition
There were found the catheri relics one labeled "Caput LVIII" contained the skull of a woman and this was sworn to be the flesh and blood tomb of Jesus.Josephus reported Jesus to be a mere 5 foot tall. Other history reports Jesus to be slightly built and without beard.
These facts can be read in the old Omni magazine Dec 1988 issue or his book titled the Sacred Virgin and the Holy Whore.
Hey I don't write these things or make them up, I just leave open all possiblities for us all to ponder, I basically just report what I see and what you all miss, even as connections appear to support these possibilities.
The relic:
A great head of gilded silver, most beautiful, and constituting theimage of a woman. Inside were two head bones, wrapped in a cloth of white linen, with another red cloth around it. A label was attached, on which was written the legend Caput LVIIIm. The bones inside were those of a rather small woman."

Other evidence would be the fact that when they discovered the bones to be of a woman that is the time period where the forged shroud of an over 6'
bearded man thst magically appeared on the scene.

Fact: Jesus relationships reveal it's possibility:
"A newly translated Gnostic gospel, entitled The Secret Book of Judas of Kerioth, According to this seeminglyauthentic early Cainite-Ophite text, translated from the Coptic by Mohammed al-Murtada and Francis Bendik, said Jesus had an active bisexual love life, including relations with John, Lazarus and Mary Magdelene.
Also validating that: is
in the missing portions of Mark it shows Jesus sleeping with a naked young rich man, but also the NT validates this:
"...there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold of him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked." (Mark 14:51-52). Was this the companion that Luke observed with Jesus inside the garden?

"...he that is courageous among the mighty shall flee away naked on that day..."(Amos 2:16----the Hebrew 'labab' translated 'flee away' here, actually means 'transported with love', and also 'ravished'). Now that certainly fits this episode of the young man fleeing away naked from Jesus outside the garden of Gethsemane.

Who was this young man if not perhaps the rich man whom "Then Jesus beholding him, loved him..."(Mark 10:21). Perhaps it was the rich man Lazarus, of whom "...he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth..."(John 11:11----The Greek 'philos' translated 'friend', also means 'dear' and 'fond of').

Fact: the only historical person named Jesus was in 70 or 90 ad and was a name used for a woman.
Joshua (Hosea) is used for a man.

Fact: the truth Gospels shows us the original trinity
at that time was Father- Mother -Son,
Jesus was therefore both man and Woman.

Fact: The church is clothed in the lady worship.

Fact:they claim the central source Q used to write the gospels came from a woman.

Fact: in the Book of Thomas he speaks of the day body parts will be changed and man made female and female into men, but why?
How would he know unless he was transformed?
Which brings us to:
Fact: He always spoke about being transformed.

Discuss: was Jesus like Chaz Bono, a woman living as a man, or like woman characters in history (Joan of Arc) who were mischaracterized & posed as men to compete in a male dominant society?
*(in my best Seinfeld voice: "not that there was anything wrong with that")

there are only 2 genders/sexs,,

male and female,,

discussion over

 

[zaangalewa]

Why can't there be a serious intellectual discussion about Jesus' gender and sexuality?

Very simple: Because such a "discussion" (never heard really anyone discussing in the English speaking world) is anything else than "intellectual" and makes spiritually not any sense. God is with all of his children. And we all together are one in god.

Gott ist immer in uns, nur wir sind selten zuhause.
Meister Eckhart
God is always within us, only we are rarely at home.

 

[HaShev]

there are only 2 genders/sexs,,

male and female,,

discussion over

Then that christ was admittingly a female, because only females through turners syndrom sweat blood- yet look like men (example: that actress who played the principle in Kindergarden Cop, short stature (Jesus is listed as 4'6") .
The measure of his height which is as 15 palms and a half, is roughly
4 feet 6 inches.

Only females leave behind female skeletal remains unless you admit the church lies about relics to sell a bigger lie (fake good news stories).

Only females used the name Jesus in that period of time.

 

[HaShev]

PH,
you just admitted Jesus is fake news or the church spread fake news, while proving my point, you can't have a discussion on the subject without people shutting it down for fear there might be some valid arguments with that conclusion reported in the 1988 Omni Magazine.

 

[zaangalewa]

HaShev

What you say is not only totally idiotic but also extremely dangerous. Example: Mohammed said "Who believes in the trinity father+mother+son is no Christian". Some Christians interpret "Mohammed did not know what means trinity" and many Muslims even murdered and murder Christians because of misunderstanding such a statement.

Indeed Mohammed was just simple right. "Who believes in the trinity father+mother+son is no Christian". Reason: The trinity (=the triune god) is father+son+holy spirit.

So I do not think you are really able to "discuss" about the Christian religion. You have some weird ideas, that's all.

 

[theHawk]

View attachment 1079680
Someone was offended by this artwork someone released of a trans Jesus, but they weren't offended by the real travesty of the Sun cross (Baal cross) symbol in it.
I ask you all why can't the artist have this discussion if there is good evidence he might have a secret worth sharing.

Actually it's a valid discussion as to the Gender of 1 of the trinity of characters used for the Jesus image and combined story.
Resarch the female skeleton of Jesus, the head is hiding in Neuillville --France
At one time The Vatican insisted they found the tomb of Jesus.About the story it was researched by British biochemist Anthony Harris who is formerly from the TRINITY College in Dublin (so non biased or more biased towards the Church). He saw many possibilities that Jesus was a woman with turners syndrom, because only a woman with this condition is known to sweat blood (Luke 22:43-44)
Around the time of the Inquisition
There were found the catheri relics one labeled "Caput LVIII" contained the skull of a woman and this was sworn to be the flesh and blood tomb of Jesus.Josephus reported Jesus to be a mere 5 foot tall. Other history reports Jesus to be slightly built and without beard.
These facts can be read in the old Omni magazine Dec 1988 issue or his book titled the Sacred Virgin and the Holy Whore.
Hey I don't write these things or make them up, I just leave open all possiblities for us all to ponder, I basically just report what I see and what you all miss, even as connections appear to support these possibilities.
The relic:
A great head of gilded silver, most beautiful, and constituting theimage of a woman. Inside were two head bones, wrapped in a cloth of white linen, with another red cloth around it. A label was attached, on which was written the legend Caput LVIIIm. The bones inside were those of a rather small woman."

Other evidence would be the fact that when they discovered the bones to be of a woman that is the time period where the forged shroud of an over 6'
bearded man thst magically appeared on the scene.

Fact: Jesus relationships reveal it's possibility:
"A newly translated Gnostic gospel, entitled The Secret Book of Judas of Kerioth, According to this seeminglyauthentic early Cainite-Ophite text, translated from the Coptic by Mohammed al-Murtada and Francis Bendik, said Jesus had an active bisexual love life, including relations with John, Lazarus and Mary Magdelene.
Also validating that: is
in the missing portions of Mark it shows Jesus sleeping with a naked young rich man, but also the NT validates this:
"...there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold of him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked." (Mark 14:51-52). Was this the companion that Luke observed with Jesus inside the garden?

"...he that is courageous among the mighty shall flee away naked on that day..."(Amos 2:16----the Hebrew 'labab' translated 'flee away' here, actually means 'transported with love', and also 'ravished'). Now that certainly fits this episode of the young man fleeing away naked from Jesus outside the garden of Gethsemane.

Who was this young man if not perhaps the rich man whom "Then Jesus beholding him, loved him..."(Mark 10:21). Perhaps it was the rich man Lazarus, of whom "...he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth..."(John 11:11----The Greek 'philos' translated 'friend', also means 'dear' and 'fond of').

Fact: the only historical person named Jesus was in 70 or 90 ad and was a name used for a woman.
Joshua (Hosea) is used for a man.

Fact: the truth Gospels shows us the original trinity
at that time was Father- Mother -Son,
Jesus was therefore both man and Woman.

Fact: The church is clothed in the lady worship.

Fact:they claim the central source Q used to write the gospels came from a woman.

Fact: in the Book of Thomas he speaks of the day body parts will be changed and man made female and female into men, but why?
How would he know unless he was transformed?
Which brings us to:
Fact: He always spoke about being transformed.

Discuss: was Jesus like Chaz Bono, a woman living as a man, or like woman characters in history (Joan of Arc) who were mischaracterized & posed as men to compete in a male dominant society?
*(in my best Seinfeld voice: "not that there was anything wrong with that")

So this is what educated Jews call “intellectual discussion”?

 

[Dr.Destructo]

Why can't there be a serious intellectual discusion about Jesus' gender and sexuality?​

Because it's difficult to pinpoint anything on fantasy created beings.

 

[Kruska]

PH,
you just admitted Jesus is fake news or the church spread fake news, while proving my point, you can't have a discussion on the subject without people shutting it down for fear there might be some valid arguments with that conclusion reported in the 1988 Omni Magazine.

There is no way for an "intelligent" discussion between Jews and Christians in this matter - since both endlessly cite self-written books that provide no factual evidence whatsoever. It's simply believes that partially coincidence or refute each other.

 

[HaShev]

So this is what educated Jews call “intellectual discussion”?

You are welcome to tell us how a female skeleton can be a man, like you ask progessive dems to describe how a man can be a woman.
See you never refuted or addressed anything, so your complaint is actually with yourself, and your prejudice thus became revealed instead of simply and intelligently discussing the subject.

 

[Muhammed]

Jesus was an armed robber, a drug dealer and a gay child sex trafficker. That's why they crucified him. They caught Jesus kissing Judas, who was a small boy. He referred to his disciples as children.

Jesus never married. Why? It was traditional for men to marry in their teens or early 20s at the latest in ancient Israel.

Jesus was also referred to as a fishmonger. Back then a pimp was often referred to as a fishmonger.

Think about that the next time you see a fish symbol on the back of somebody's car.

 

[justoffal]

View attachment 1079680
Someone was offended by this artwork someone released of a trans Jesus, but they weren't offended by the real travesty of the Sun cross (Baal cross) symbol in it.
I ask you all why can't the artist have this discussion if there is good evidence he might have a secret worth sharing.

Actually it's a valid discussion as to the Gender of 1 of the trinity of characters used for the Jesus image and combined story.
Resarch the female skeleton of Jesus, the head is hiding in Neuillville --France
At one time The Vatican insisted they found the tomb of Jesus.About the story it was researched by British biochemist Anthony Harris who is formerly from the TRINITY College in Dublin (so non biased or more biased towards the Church). He saw many possibilities that Jesus was a woman with turners syndrom, because only a woman with this condition is known to sweat blood (Luke 22:43-44)
Around the time of the Inquisition
There were found the catheri relics one labeled "Caput LVIII" contained the skull of a woman and this was sworn to be the flesh and blood tomb of Jesus.Josephus reported Jesus to be a mere 5 foot tall. Other history reports Jesus to be slightly built and without beard.
These facts can be read in the old Omni magazine Dec 1988 issue or his book titled the Sacred Virgin and the Holy Whore.
Hey I don't write these things or make them up, I just leave open all possiblities for us all to ponder, I basically just report what I see and what you all miss, even as connections appear to support these possibilities.
The relic:
A great head of gilded silver, most beautiful, and constituting theimage of a woman. Inside were two head bones, wrapped in a cloth of white linen, with another red cloth around it. A label was attached, on which was written the legend Caput LVIIIm. The bones inside were those of a rather small woman."

Other evidence would be the fact that when they discovered the bones to be of a woman that is the time period where the forged shroud of an over 6'
bearded man thst magically appeared on the scene.

Fact: Jesus relationships reveal it's possibility:
"A newly translated Gnostic gospel, entitled The Secret Book of Judas of Kerioth, According to this seeminglyauthentic early Cainite-Ophite text, translated from the Coptic by Mohammed al-Murtada and Francis Bendik, said Jesus had an active bisexual love life, including relations with John, Lazarus and Mary Magdelene.
Also validating that: is
in the missing portions of Mark it shows Jesus sleeping with a naked young rich man, but also the NT validates this:
"...there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold of him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked." (Mark 14:51-52). Was this the companion that Luke observed with Jesus inside the garden?

"...he that is courageous among the mighty shall flee away naked on that day..."(Amos 2:16----the Hebrew 'labab' translated 'flee away' here, actually means 'transported with love', and also 'ravished'). Now that certainly fits this episode of the young man fleeing away naked from Jesus outside the garden of Gethsemane.

Who was this young man if not perhaps the rich man whom "Then Jesus beholding him, loved him..."(Mark 10:21). Perhaps it was the rich man Lazarus, of whom "...he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth..."(John 11:11----The Greek 'philos' translated 'friend', also means 'dear' and 'fond of').

Fact: the only historical person named Jesus was in 70 or 90 ad and was a name used for a woman.
Joshua (Hosea) is used for a man.

Fact: the truth Gospels shows us the original trinity
at that time was Father- Mother -Son,
Jesus was therefore both man and Woman.

Fact: The church is clothed in the lady worship.

Fact:they claim the central source Q used to write the gospels came from a woman.

Fact: in the Book of Thomas he speaks of the day body parts will be changed and man made female and female into men, but why?
How would he know unless he was transformed?
Which brings us to:
Fact: He always spoke about being transformed.

Discuss: was Jesus like Chaz Bono, a woman living as a man, or like woman characters in history (Joan of Arc) who were mischaracterized & posed as men to compete in a male dominant society?
*(in my best Seinfeld voice: "not that there was anything wrong with that")

There are no genders in the resurrection...
Christ's life was not about Gender it was about sacrifice.

 

[Votto]

So this is what educated Jews call “intellectual discussion”?

No, it's called trolling and why this is not in badlands is beyond me.

Or they could try and crucify him a second time here at the religious forums

 

[Lisa558]

Then that christ was admittingly a female, because only females through turners syndrom sweat blood- yet look like men (example: that actress who played the principle in Kindergarden Cop, short stature (Jesus is listed as 4'6") .
The measure of his height which is as 15 palms and a half, is roughly
4 feet 6 inches.

Only females leave behind female skeletal remains unless you admit the church lies about relics to sell a bigger lie (fake good news stories).

Only females used the name Jesus in that period of time.

Only females leave behind a skeleton? What happens to the bones of males?

 

[irosie91]

Then that christ was admittingly a female, because only females through turners syndrom sweat blood- yet look like men (example: that actress who played the principle in Kindergarden Cop, short stature (Jesus is listed as 4'6") .
The measure of his height which is as 15 palms and a half, is roughly
4 feet 6 inches.

Only females leave behind female skeletal remains unless you admit the church lies about relics to sell a bigger lie (fake good news stories).

Only females used the name Jesus in that period of time.

anyone got a citation about women with Turner's syndrome "sweating blood"?

Only females leave behind a skeleton? What happens to the bones of males?

compost?

 

[HaShev]

There is no way for an "intelligent" discussion between Jews and Christians in this matter - since both endlessly cite self-written books that provide no factual evidence whatsoever. It's simply believes that partially coincidence or refute each othe

Why can't there be a serious intellectual discusion about Jesus' gender and sexuality?​

Because it's difficult to pinpoint anything on fantasy created beings.

Yes it's like the characters in BIG Bang Theory arguing over hypothetical situations of comic book characters, ironically also fictional characters themselves. L

 

[HaShev]

Only females leave behind a skeleton? What happens to the bones of males?

Read the Context:"Only females leave behind female skeletal remains"
The church promoted the bones of a female as being Jesus.
How does female skeletal remains become a Male character?
2 choices:
1)they lie about relics to sell a lie
2)if you don't believe the church lies then Jesus had to be Female.

 

[ding]

View attachment 1079680
Someone was offended by this artwork someone released of a trans Jesus, but they weren't offended by the real travesty of the Sun cross (Baal cross) symbol in it.
I ask you all why can't the artist have this discussion if there is good evidence he might have a secret worth sharing.

Actually it's a valid discussion as to the Gender of 1 of the trinity of characters used for the Jesus image and combined story.
Resarch the female skeleton of Jesus, the head is hiding in Neuillville --France
At one time The Vatican insisted they found the tomb of Jesus.About the story it was researched by British biochemist Anthony Harris who is formerly from the TRINITY College in Dublin (so non biased or more biased towards the Church). He saw many possibilities that Jesus was a woman with turners syndrom, because only a woman with this condition is known to sweat blood (Luke 22:43-44)
Around the time of the Inquisition
There were found the catheri relics one labeled "Caput LVIII" contained the skull of a woman and this was sworn to be the flesh and blood tomb of Jesus.Josephus reported Jesus to be a mere 5 foot tall. Other history reports Jesus to be slightly built and without beard.
These facts can be read in the old Omni magazine Dec 1988 issue or his book titled the Sacred Virgin and the Holy Whore.
Hey I don't write these things or make them up, I just leave open all possiblities for us all to ponder, I basically just report what I see and what you all miss, even as connections appear to support these possibilities.
The relic:
A great head of gilded silver, most beautiful, and constituting theimage of a woman. Inside were two head bones, wrapped in a cloth of white linen, with another red cloth around it. A label was attached, on which was written the legend Caput LVIIIm. The bones inside were those of a rather small woman."

Other evidence would be the fact that when they discovered the bones to be of a woman that is the time period where the forged shroud of an over 6'
bearded man thst magically appeared on the scene.

Fact: Jesus relationships reveal it's possibility:
"A newly translated Gnostic gospel, entitled The Secret Book of Judas of Kerioth, According to this seeminglyauthentic early Cainite-Ophite text, translated from the Coptic by Mohammed al-Murtada and Francis Bendik, said Jesus had an active bisexual love life, including relations with John, Lazarus and Mary Magdelene.
Also validating that: is
in the missing portions of Mark it shows Jesus sleeping with a naked young rich man, but also the NT validates this:
"...there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold of him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked." (Mark 14:51-52). Was this the companion that Luke observed with Jesus inside the garden?

"...he that is courageous among the mighty shall flee away naked on that day..."(Amos 2:16----the Hebrew 'labab' translated 'flee away' here, actually means 'transported with love', and also 'ravished'). Now that certainly fits this episode of the young man fleeing away naked from Jesus outside the garden of Gethsemane.

Who was this young man if not perhaps the rich man whom "Then Jesus beholding him, loved him..."(Mark 10:21). Perhaps it was the rich man Lazarus, of whom "...he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth..."(John 11:11----The Greek 'philos' translated 'friend', also means 'dear' and 'fond of').

Fact: the only historical person named Jesus was in 70 or 90 ad and was a name used for a woman.
Joshua (Hosea) is used for a man.

Fact: the truth Gospels shows us the original trinity
at that time was Father- Mother -Son,
Jesus was therefore both man and Woman.

Fact: The church is clothed in the lady worship.

Fact:they claim the central source Q used to write the gospels came from a woman.

Fact: in the Book of Thomas he speaks of the day body parts will be changed and man made female and female into men, but why?
How would he know unless he was transformed?
Which brings us to:
Fact: He always spoke about being transformed.

Discuss: was Jesus like Chaz Bono, a woman living as a man, or like woman characters in history (Joan of Arc) who were mischaracterized & posed as men to compete in a male dominant society?
*(in my best Seinfeld voice: "not that there was anything wrong with that")

The Trinity is a relationship to be entered into. It's not a mystery to be solved or a concept to be mocked. The complex nature of God is what it is.

 

[HaShev]

The Trinity is a relationship to be entered into. It's not a mystery to be solved or a concept to be mocked. The complex nature of God is what it is.

For the trinity to be legit you'd be ignoring the original trinity before it changed twice, & validating my
commentaries & teachings about time messaging and non linear time. However if you claim a short return as one not first recognized (in the stories) then that's 4 not three and 5th if you believe Mormons and a 6th if you believe future return (in Hebrew=hashev) new body new name says the text and legend.

 

[1srelluc]

The "historical documents" say that he was a white dude......Lew Wallace would not lead us astray.

The Incredible Life of Lew Wallace, Civil War General and Author of Ben-Hur

You can also listen to John Swansburg read this piece using the player below: I. Lew Wallace was making conversation with the other gentlemen in his sl ...

www.slate.com