Zone1 Hebrews 1:8 says Jesus is God

[Eman623]

That's correct. Two God's, not one. And, the Holy Ghost makes three.

Sounds like we agree that Jesus is not God then.

Where is the Holy Spirit's throne?

 

[Cougarbear]

those three are no different than any other members of the everlasting ... one being, one vote.

No proof for one being... Only proof for 3 beings.

 

[Cougarbear]

Sounds like we agree that Jesus is not God then.

Where is the Holy Spirit's throne?

You know that's not true. So, why let Satan answer for you? Jesus is most certainly God and I even proved it with scriptures. Revelation 3:21. Only God's have a throne. This says both Jesus and the Father have thrones. The way it's written, there has to be two personages.
Will the Holy Ghost have a throne eventually? It's just an opinion but I think this will happen. Probably between the end of the Millennium and the final battle of Gog and Magog when there will be no light or spirit remaining. Then, the Holy Ghost shall receive his body, die and be resurrected with a glorified body. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[BreezeWood]

No proof for one being... Only proof for 3 beings.

maybe they will vote as one all three votes being the same.

 

[Cougarbear]

maybe they will vote as one all three votes being the same.

The Bible says that the three agree as one.

 

[Ace Nova]

Before I respond, I appreciate your responses and in a cordial way. I hope I don't get too strong with you because I can tend to do that at times.

The "Rock" is the "Rock of Revelation." Not Peter. Peter is the prophet (apostle) whom the Lord (Rock) was going to reveal things to for leading the Church after his crucifixion. Petro in this case means small rock or Prophet. The one who would receive revelation from the big rock, Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost. "The Rock" or Stone of Israel is Jehovah who is Jesus Christ. Hope that makes sense. Peter in deed built up the Church in the area and also orchestrated much of the spreading of the Gospel in other parts of the old world. There were Bishops, Priests, Deacons, Teachers and so on. It's hard to understand why Protestants don't think order in the Church would not need the Priesthood Offices of authority.

Once the general public and members of the RCC could read for themselves the "Bible" there were many obvious strange things that had entered into the RCC Church that Luther and others felt were false doctrines to the point that the entire Church had apostatized. I don't know if Luther ever pointed out that apostles and prophets were lost and not the foundation of the RCC.

John of, Peter, James and John, is the same John the Revelator. One of the original 12 apostles. The Book of Revelation was not the last book that he wrote. Protestants try to use the statement that nothing can be added or taken from "this" book" as meaning the entire Bible when it only meant the Book of Revelation. With that said, the only way that scripture could be added or changed would be through a prophet or apostle (which is a prophet). God is a God of order.

I would say that the Lord's Church is perfect. The people in it are not perfect. It's easy to say the Church did this and the Church did that, but if the tenants that would make the Church true are correct, then that Church is perfect. This is just my opinion that the RCC is not perfect because the doctrine has been changed and ordinances changed. The authority of the Priesthood has obviously changed. It used to be the Melchizedek Priesthood after the order of the Son of God. Then, there was also the lesser or Leviticus Priesthood or the Priesthood after the order of Aaron. Now, the RCC has Jesuits and Franciscans and other Priesthoods? Strange priesthoods that what Paul made known existed. The RCC lost that authority.

So, back to the question, where are the apostles and prophets, the foundation of the Church in the RCC? Popes, Cardinals, Arch Bishops are not Apostles or Prophets. Same is with Protestant churches as well. And, the Eastern Orthodox Church.

With respects to the apostles that we don't have writings from, that doesn't mean they didn't write. I'm not saying the Gnostic gospels are actual writings by the apostles and Mary. Since they really don't complement the writings of the apostles we do have, I would doubt they are truthful writings of the apostles and Mary. The point is, they were apostles and therefore, prophets as well.

Interesting perspective and no, it's impossible to "get too strong with me". I'm not going to get into semantics or disagreements over issues that are largely based on faith. These aren't the issues anyone should be having large scaled debates over - there are dozens, potentially hundreds of more important areas to focus on when it comes to faith and spirituality.

 

[Cougarbear]

Interesting perspective and no, it's impossible to "get too strong with me". I'm not going to get into semantics or disagreements over issues that are largely based on faith. These aren't the issues anyone should be having large scaled debates over - there are dozens, potentially hundreds of more important areas to focus on when it comes to faith and spirituality.

I would agree except the true church must be based with apostles and prophets.

 

[Ace Nova]

I would agree except the true church must be based with apostles and prophets.

What is the "true church" in your opinion?

 

[Ace Nova]

The Father himself is speaking in Hebrews 1 and says in verse 8 that Jesus, His Son, is to be called God as well. Now, Colossians 2:9 makes sense. "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Verse 8 then says not to follow the philosophy and vain deceit after the traditions of men. This means to only follow prophets and apostles who teach through the spirit of God and not the secular non-prophets of the Unitarians like Jehovah Witnesses and their non-prophet so called scholars.

This is not entirely accurate. Hebrews was a letter written (in most likelihood) by one of Paul's followers. Whether it was mistranslated or misunderstood over the years - the author is quoting various passages from the book of Psalms.

Although it seems as if "God is speaking" by the way it reads out - Hebrews 7-8 - is actually quoting Psalms 45:

Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever;
the scepter of your kingdom will be a scepter of justice.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has established you above your fellow kings
by anointing you with the oil of gladness.

Psalm 45 is not God The Father speaking directly - it is a song praising The Messiah. (Credited as:

Nuptial Ode for the Messianic King​

For the director.According to “Lilies.” A maskil of the sons of Korah. A love song.)


God does not state that his Son is to be called God from that particular passage.

(In Matthew 3:17 A voice from heaven says that Jesus is his son and with him he is well pleased. But It's through faith that Christians believe that Jesus is the Christ.)


Also, one should understand:

O God: a title of honor applied in the Bible to the Messiah (see Isa 9:6), as well as to the leaders and judges (see Ps 82:6), to Moses (see Ex 4:16; 7:1), to the spirit of Samuel (see 1 Sam 28:13), and to the House of David (see Zec 12:8).

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 45 - New Catholic Bible

Psalm 45 -Nuptial Ode for the Messianic King -For the director. According to “Lilies.” A maskil of the sons of Korah. A love song. My heart is moved by a noble themeas I sing my poem to the king;my tongue is like the pen of a skillful scribe. You are the most handsome of men;grace has anointed...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Cougarbear]

What is the "true church" in your opinion?

The one Jesus Christ authorizes through the foundation he established, apostles and prophets. I was in the presence is an apostles of Jesus Christ yesterday. True doctrine came through him. The spirit bore witness to me.

 

[Cougarbear]

This is not entirely accurate. Hebrews was a letter written (in most likelihood) by one of Paul's followers. Whether it was mistranslated or misunderstood over the years - the author is quoting various passages from the book of Psalms.

Although it seems as if "God is speaking" by the way it reads out - Hebrews 7-8 - is actually quoting Psalms 45:

Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever;
the scepter of your kingdom will be a scepter of justice.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has established you above your fellow kings
by anointing you with the oil of gladness.

Psalm 45 is not God The Father speaking directly - it is a song praising The Messiah. (Credited as:

Nuptial Ode for the Messianic King​

For the director.According to “Lilies.” A maskil of the sons of Korah. A love song.)


God does not state that his Son is to be called God from that particular passage.

(In Matthew 3:17 A voice from heaven says that Jesus is his son and with him he is well pleased. But It's through faith that Christians believe that Jesus is the Christ.)


Also, one should understand:

O God: a title of honor applied in the Bible to the Messiah (see Isa 9:6), as well as to the leaders and judges (see Ps 82:6), to Moses (see Ex 4:16; 7:1), to the spirit of Samuel (see 1 Sam 28:13), and to the House of David (see Zec 12:8).

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 45 - New Catholic Bible

Psalm 45 -Nuptial Ode for the Messianic King -For the director. According to “Lilies.” A maskil of the sons of Korah. A love song. My heart is moved by a noble themeas I sing my poem to the king;my tongue is like the pen of a skillful scribe. You are the most handsome of men;grace has anointed...

www.biblegateway.com

I have to reject scholars that attempt to dismiss the words of apostles and prophets by saying they didn’t write the words of their letters. Somehow dismissing power and authority of the words they wrote. That’s part of the apostasy techniques.
If words of prophets were used by Paul that only strengthens his words. It shows prophecy fulfilled.

 

[Ace Nova]

I have to reject scholars that attempt to dismiss the words of apostles and prophets by saying they didn’t write the words of their letters. Somehow dismissing power and authority of the words they wrote. That’s part of the apostasy techniques.
If words of prophets were used by Paul that only strengthens his words. It shows prophecy fulfilled.

No one is dismissing anything. Slow down and go back and read what was written. It doesn't matter who authored the letter.

The passage from the letter is a direct quote from The Book of Psalms, from the Old Testament. That is indisputable.

Through faith, you can believe that the quote from Psalms is speaking about Jesus and that the Psalm was inspired by the Holy Spirit. But the Psalm itself, as it is written, is an "Ode/Love song" to the Messiah - written and orchestrated by "The sons of Korah" as it is credited in the Psalm.

 

[Ace Nova]

The one Jesus Christ authorizes through the foundation he established, apostles and prophets. I was in the presence is an apostles of Jesus Christ yesterday. True doctrine came through him. The spirit bore witness to me.

Interesting. Which Apostle? Can you discuss the "true doctrine"?

 

[hobelim]

the debate is who is Jehovah and is he a God along with the Father. Or, is Jehovah the Father and there is no other son that is God. Within the verses discussed, there is also another lesson to be learned. To know better God. With all the verses stated in this thread, it's clear that Jesus is Jehovah, the Son of God and Messiah, of the Father. It's clear both are Gods. And, you will need to come up with another name for the Father and we have, Elohim, The Most High God.

Ugh. Jesus is not and never claimed to be God. There is only one living God. There is no other god in existence.

"Go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and their Father; My God and their God." By saying that his God is their God Jesus eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as or claimed to be God.

Jesus was falsely accused of claiming to be God by his enemies to discredit him so that people would dismiss his teaching out of hand because even in the first century, like it still is to this day, anyone who claims to be God is insane. What you profess to believe brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among all intelligent people.

What a gal!

 

[hobelim]

In Duet. 18:18, why do you put in parenthesis (from the dead)? This individual doesn't have to be dead at all. "Raised up" is raised from his youth, "A Prophet." Jesus is not a "Prophet" of himself. Makes no sense.

If the promise for complying with the Law is life and the promise for setting aside that instruction is death then anyone who worships a trinity or two or many gods is an idolator who died in the very day they defied the Law.

Pssst! That makes you dead. And if you want to be 'raised up" to life you have to stop perpetuating brazen lies. It doesn't cost anything. The truth isn't hard to grasp. Just stop saying and doing stupid things. How hard is that?

Whenever a person any person is raised up they are raised up from the dead. Jesus was a prophet of God, The Son of God, a relational metaphor for the prophet, like Moses, a Jewish man, described in Deuteronomy 18:18.

"I will put My words into his mouth and he shall convey all of My commands."

Jesus affirmed his connection to this prophecy, "There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day for I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it." John 12:49

Hear! (if you have ears to hear) what the Spirit of truth is saying to the Churches. Unless you repent of your lies, murders, idolatry, sorcery, and your fornication with false gods, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

"Outside are dogs, sorcerers, fornicators, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices deceit."

 

[hobelim]

I know I don't necessarily go along with my Church on this

Then why are you perpetuating what you don't go along with? Why go along with anything you don't believe? You have been caught in the act of adultery, infidelity to God. How is it you don't know the right course to take?

Damn.

 

[Cougarbear]

No one is dismissing anything. Slow down and go back and read what was written. It doesn't matter who authored the letter.

The passage from the letter is a direct quote from The Book of Psalms, from the Old Testament. That is indisputable.

Through faith, you can believe that the quote from Psalms is speaking about Jesus and that the Psalm was inspired by the Holy Spirit. But the Psalm itself, as it is written, is an "Ode/Love song" to the Messiah - written and orchestrated by "The sons of Korah" as it is credited in the Psalm.

It doesn't matter who was saying it. Paul was inspired or he received revelation to include this in his message. What's interesting is the people back in David's time knew also that Jehovah (Jesus) was God and has a God, God the Father. Paul knew this as well. Yet, seems like most Christians are doing everything they can to not accept the facts of the words. And, I would also have to reject that the people of Israel would call anyone but their God, God. Moses certainly would not allow it. Isaiah for sure!

 

[Cougarbear]

Interesting. Which Apostle? Can you discuss the "true doctrine"?

I'm a lousy note taker but I have notes I'll have to look at. He did make sure we understood that Baptism by the Holy Ghost (fire) is just as important as Baptism by water. That Baptism by the Holy Ghost is actually when the sins we have committed are forgiven. Also, their is a third part of the Atonement process for us and that is receiving the Sacraments weekly to continue the process of forgiveness and keeping our covenants we make at baptism with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. He made a point to be careful and not make just the water baptism a memorable event for the person especially when they are child baptisms at age 8. We tend to do up the water baptism too much and he said that is false doctrine doing so. This is Elder David Bednar. A member of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles.

 

[Cougarbear]

Ugh. Jesus is not and never claimed to be God. There is only one living God. There is no other god in existence.

"Go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and their Father; My God and their God." By saying that his God is their God Jesus eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as or claimed to be God.

Jesus was falsely accused of claiming to be God by his enemies to discredit him so that people would dismiss his teaching out of hand because even in the first century, like it still is to this day, anyone who claims to be God is insane. What you profess to believe brings the name of Jesus into disrepute among all intelligent people.

What a gal!

You obviously haven't done much study on what it means to "redeem." Jesus redeemed us from the Father. He paid the price to become our "father." as well. Jesus is called "Father" in some places, is he not? We have the ability to become Christ's sons and daughters through the atonement and redemption process. He does not replace the Father of our Spirits as Father. We have two Fathers now. How about that!

 

[Cougarbear]

If the promise for complying with the Law is life and the promise for setting aside that instruction is death then anyone who worships a trinity or two or many gods is an idolator who died in the very day they defied the Law.

Pssst! That makes you dead. And if you want to be 'raised up" to life you have to stop perpetuating brazen lies. It doesn't cost anything. The truth isn't hard to grasp. Just stop saying and doing stupid things. How hard is that?

Whenever a person any person is raised up they are raised up from the dead. Jesus was a prophet of God, The Son of God, a relational metaphor for the prophet, like Moses, a Jewish man, described in Deuteronomy 18:18.

"I will put My words into his mouth and he shall convey all of My commands."

Jesus affirmed his connection to this prophecy, "There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day for I don’t speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it." John 12:49

Hear! (if you have ears to hear) what the Spirit of truth is saying to the Churches. Unless you repent of your lies, murders, idolatry, sorcery, and your fornication with false gods, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

"Outside are dogs, sorcerers, fornicators, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices deceit."

That's your doctrine, not the doctrine of the Godhead. You are making those assumptions. And no, raising up doesn't have to do with the dead. Your earthly father raised you up. Good grief. Also, Jesus ends up as God and on the right hand of the Father according to the scriptures we have discussed. I can't help it if you believe the interpretations of non-prophet scholars. That's not my problem. The scriptures are not for private interpretation.