Zone1 God of the Old Testament and New Testament

[Meriweather]

Providing information. What information that does not include, "You will get hurt" do you provide to keep a child away from a hot stove? An exploring child who does not comprehend danger is in danger.

How do you convince them to avoid the dangers around us without alerting them as to what those dangers are? "Don't play with that knife, you could cut yourself", "Don't get in a car with a stranger, he or she might hurt you" and "Don't cross the road by yourself because you might get hit by a car" are all appropriate and proper training. IOW, establishing safe boundaries with warnings of what will likely happen if you cross them is legitimate when dealing with curious children.

This is beyond silly. Every child knows what an 'owie' is. Every child knows what it is like to fall down, fall over, fall off. Or, maybe your children never took their first steps, never rolled off a couch or a fell off a chair. Did your children never scrape knees or hands, bump their nose, or learn the word "hot"? Your children never saw road kill? Or, maybe my children were incredibly smart and yours were unbelievably thick? My children learned about the world because I had no fear of taking them out into the world and showing them the world. They continue with that to this day.

 

[Meriweather]

That is not the typical experience of most parents, who have to deal with rebellious kids who push boundaries to make sure their world is secure and to find out what's on the other side of the fence. I envy you the apparently idyllic experience you had with your kids.

My kids knew what was on the other side of the fence, the beach, what was in the desert, etc. because I was taking them there at a very young age. If they wanted to see something, we went and looked. Idyllic? Yes, I guess hard work and great effort can be seen as idyllic. Plus, I had great kids. They also had older cousins who were involved in some tragic experiences and some who were not. The underside of life was not hidden from them. Nor was I afraid to let my children live life. No bubble wrapping; no helicopter parenting. My oldest once had to deal with a situation no sixth grade girl should have to deal with. We talked about how it could be handled. She chose the option she was most comfortable with and with a little help from me, carried it out.

 

[Meriweather]

That's great and all, but human nature leads most kids into exploring their world and testing boundaries out of curiosity and rebellion. That's why the Bible tells us that "those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children". If you never had to discipline your children (whatever form that discipline takes. Some kids fall to pieces at a stern look, others blithely ignore anything you say until the PlayStation disappears), you need to understand that your experience is atypical.

Again this is beyond silly and unworthy of a response. I substitute teach. No, my experience is not atypical--there are (and always have been) great kids growing up. Yes, there are always a handful of rebellious in most classes. But here is what I learned very early on substitute teaching. I was teaching math at a middle school when, during lunch, word got out among the students that all the administrators and counselors would be gone all afternoon.

My class after lunch arrived and some of the students were stirring up the class not to sit down, they could do what they wanted, and without a seating chart a substitute would never know who did what. I went to the old standby of what was it I could control? Not thirty students who were roaming around the room. I had empty desks. I had the whiteboard. I had the lesson plan. I drew two empty desks up close to the whiteboard and began teaching the lesson to two empty desks. (My thought was that in math, there would always be someone who might want help. If I showed I had an interest in math, they just might be interested in help.) Almost instantly, both those desks were filled, and this didn't surprise me. What did astonish me is that other students immediately began drawing desks as close to the whiteboard as possible, listening attentively to the lesson and taking notes. Did all students do this? No. Five did not. They stood off by the door talking quietly, no longer a disturbance. Five-sixth of the students wanted to learn, wanted to cooperate, wanted to do what was right, and this is the usual state of affairs.

If your children were part of the 1/5, then you had your work cut out for you. As my children were clearly part of the 5/6ths, I was truly blessed, and I have been ever thankful/grateful for this. But know this: If your kids were members of the 1/5th club, they were among the "atypical". My kids were among the typical.

 

[Meriweather]

Based on what you've written, you're not even sure anyone will face eternity without God, despite reading where He casts out a crowd who think they were doing it right. I don't see anywhere that you've expressed gratitude or joy over God rescuing you from eternity without Him, just at rescuing you from yourself.

An admission of not knowing, having no way of knowing, is merely that. On the other hand the same information is available to you and you are absolutely certain you know.

So...are you saying God keeps a list of what each person is thankful for and what each person is not thankful for? Or is that your own personal hobby? You, the all knowing, say I haven't expressed gratitude for something. Could it possibly be you don't know or even that you missed it?

 

[hadit]

This is beyond silly. Every child knows what an 'owie' is. Every child knows what it is like to fall down, fall over, fall off. Or, maybe your children never took their first steps, never rolled off a couch or a fell off a chair. Did your children never scrape knees or hands, bump their nose, or learn the word "hot"? Your children never saw road kill? Or, maybe my children were incredibly smart and yours were unbelievably thick? My children learned about the world because I had no fear of taking them out into the world and showing them the world. They continue with that to this day.

IOW, you taught them to fear the consequences of harmful behavior, whether you used the words or not. You allowed them to see dead animals that didn't dodge cars. You allowed them to hurt themselves as they explored their world so when you said, "Don't touch the stove, you'll burn yourself" they knew what that meant.

If I'm talking to someone about Christ and they have no idea that sin is going to eternally separate them from God, how can I stay silent and not warn them?

"Why do I need Jesus? I'm happy with my life, I'm a good person. You say I'll be happy? I'm happy now".

 

[hadit]

An admission of not knowing, having no way of knowing, is merely that. On the other hand the same information is available to you and you are absolutely certain you know.

You have not addressed Judgement Day as told to us in Scripture, when people who think they are doing it right are thrown out of God's presence. Do you think they're just put outside the gates and brought back in through a side entrance, what?

So...are you saying God keeps a list of what each person is thankful for and what each person is not thankful for? Or is that your own personal hobby? You, the all knowing, say I haven't expressed gratitude for something. Could it possibly be you don't know or even that you missed it?

So, are you grateful that God has rescued you from eternal separation from Him? But I guess if you don't know that anyone will actually be in such a state, why would you express gratitude for escaping it?

 

[hadit]

My kids knew what was on the other side of the fence, the beach, what was in the desert, etc. because I was taking them there at a very young age. If they wanted to see something, we went and looked. Idyllic? Yes, I guess hard work and great effort can be seen as idyllic. Plus, I had great kids. They also had older cousins who were involved in some tragic experiences and some who were not. The underside of life was not hidden from them. Nor was I afraid to let my children live life. No bubble wrapping; no helicopter parenting. My oldest once had to deal with a situation no sixth grade girl should have to deal with. We talked about how it could be handled. She chose the option she was most comfortable with and with a little help from me, carried it out.

IOW, they were exposed to the consequences of bad decisions, not sheltered from them. Likewise, we alert those in sin to the consequence of continuing in it. But if the consequences are no big deal, why bother?

 

[Meriweather]

IOW

Why are you absolutely petrified to use my words, instead of yours? We don't need, IOW. The words I wrote speak very well on their own. However, if you want to imagine my children quivering and shaking in their shoes over a hot stove or crossing the street, have at it. If you want to imagine them terrified at the realities of life and death because that is how you get your jollies, imagine away. I don't how you arrived at the conclusion that small children are absolute idiots, but you obviously you have convinced yourself they are. My kids never had the urge to hide under their beds or live in absolute fear of going to hell. It's not possible to fear someone who loves you and wants the best for you even when you're going through dark valleys in the worst of times.

 

[Meriweather]

If I'm talking to someone about Christ and they have no idea that sin is going to eternally separate them from God, how can I stay silent and not warn them?

What, exactly, are you telling them about Christ? Peter barely knew Jesus when he said, "Lord, depart from me for I am a sinful man." That is the reaction everyone has when they meet up with anyone who is heads and shoulders above themselves when it come to anything: Intelligence, music, art, building, gardening, athletics, you name it.

You will know if you gave someone a proper, realistic picture of Christ, because they will react to the news exactly as Peter did: "I'm not worthy of this, of this man Jesus, for I am a sinful person."

Is the proper follow-up, "Yes, and let me tell you about him throwing you in hell for all eternity unless you do exactly as I say! Jesus wants you to know the terrifying future that awaits you."

 

[Meriweather]

"Why do I need Jesus? I'm happy with my life, I'm a good person. You say I'll be happy? I'm happy now".

Try: Would you like to be happier, even enter into greater joy? Would you be interested in being able to retain some joy during the worst days of your life? How do you describe your relationship with God? Would you be interested in entering into a relationship with God, actually getting to know Him, or to know Him better?

I know. You think the better option is to say, "Let me tell you about hell, instead."

 

[Meriweather]

You have not addressed Judgement Day as told to us in Scripture, when people who think they are doing it right are thrown out of God's presence. Do you think they're just put outside the gates and brought back in through a side entrance, what?

What is there to address? Jesus knows the human heart, who else can understand it as well. Am I doing what I do because my heart is in it? Or am I doing what I am doing as a protection from hell--i.e. lip service. On judgement day, Jesus is going to show me my heart. I cannot imagine me arguing with Jesus or my own heart. If I am not fit for God's majesty, to be His child, the one thing I will know is that I did try my best, and as pitiful as it may be, to my best I love God and walk in his ways. I'll thank Jesus for the chance and promise to do my best in tripping up Satan and his minions.

 

[Meriweather]

So, are you grateful that God has rescued you from eternal separation from Him? But I guess if you don't know that anyone will actually be in such a state, why would you express gratitude for escaping it?

Another post not worthy of a response.

 

[hadit]

Why are you absolutely petrified to use my words, instead of yours? We don't need, IOW. The words I wrote speak very well on their own. However, if you want to imagine my children quivering and shaking in their shoes over a hot stove or crossing the street, have at it. If you want to imagine them terrified at the realities of life and death because that is how you get your jollies, imagine away. I don't how you arrived at the conclusion that small children are absolute idiots, but you obviously you have convinced yourself they are. My kids never had the urge to hide under their beds or live in absolute fear of going to hell. It's not possible to fear someone who loves you and wants the best for you even when you're going through dark valleys in the worst of times.

I cannot discuss things with you if you insist on such an absolutist position. You seem to take everything I say to the most extreme degree possible.

 

[Meriweather]

IOW, they were exposed to the consequences of bad decisions, not sheltered from them. Likewise, we alert those in sin to the consequence of continuing in it. But if the consequences are no big deal, why bother?

No IOW. My words can stand alone, thank you very much. Please tell me you are not oblivious to the fact that earthly sin comes with earthly consequences in our present life.

We have been a great gift--our present, earthly life. The Commandments and Godly teachings are a guide to living this life. Kingdom living is eternal, meaning we can enter into the Kingdom in this life, right now, and it will continue on into our next life. We can enter in our relationship with God in this life and it will continue on into the next life.

Can't you imagine the thankfulness, joy, and gratitude one experiences in Kingdom living here on earth?

 

[Meriweather]

I cannot discuss things with you if you insist on such an absolutist position. You seem to take everything I say to the most extreme degree possible.

Actually, that is what you have been doing with me. Keep in mind, I have not called you an "absolutist" about anything. I've been discussing my top priority in talking about Jesus, living his Way of salvation.

 

[hadit]

Actually, that is what you have been doing with me. Keep in mind, I have not called you an "absolutist" about anything. I've been discussing my top priority in talking about Jesus, living his Way of salvation.

And you continue to portray everything I have said in the most negative light possible, instead of understanding what I'm saying. Stop that and we can have a discussion.

 

[Meriweather]

And you continue to portray everything I have said in the most negative light possible, instead of understanding what I'm saying. Stop that and we can have a discussion.

What is missed is that I have understood every single word being said. Offering a different perspective is not putting another perspective in a negative light.

 

[hadit]

What is missed is that I have understood every single word being said. Offering a different perspective is not putting another perspective in a negative light.

Just four examples from this page alone:

"I know. You think the better option is to say, "Let me tell you about hell, instead.""
"Is the proper follow-up, "Yes, and let me tell you about him throwing you in hell for all eternity unless you do exactly as I say! Jesus wants you to know the terrifying future that awaits you."
"I don't how you arrived at the conclusion that small children are absolute idiots, but you obviously you have convinced yourself they are."
"You, the all knowing, say I haven't expressed gratitude for something."

In these, are you just "offering a different perspective"? I think not.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't fully understand your point about God being convenient. For me, God is someone with whom I have a relationship and who has relationships with innumerable others. In human relationships, there are trillions of parents, extended family members, friends, a best friend, and colleagues. Many. And, I don't understand what many has to do with convenience.

Humans have souls. Animals don't, especially animals that we don't connect with. Some might give souls to their pet dogs and cats, but in general, other animals don't have souls.

Well isn't that rather convenient towards humans? God has chose humans to be better than everyone else.


God said "thou shalt not kill", but it doesn't mean "don't kill", it means "don't kill humans" and even then it allows for killing in war and executions. How convenient.

 

[Meriweather]

Just four examples from this page alone:

"I know. You think the better option is to say, "Let me tell you about hell, instead.""
"Is the proper follow-up, "Yes, and let me tell you about him throwing you in hell for all eternity unless you do exactly as I say! Jesus wants you to know the terrifying future that awaits you."
"I don't how you arrived at the conclusion that small children are absolute idiots, but you obviously you have convinced yourself they are."
"You, the all knowing, say I haven't expressed gratitude for something."

In these, are you just "offering a different perspective"? I think not.

Have you been insisting on talking about hell, that it needs to be emphasized? Haven't you been saying people need to know what is in store for them (the future)? Haven't you been insisting one must tell children they will be hurt or how else will they know they will be hurt? Haven't you been telling me what I am really saying, "in other words"? In each of these, I have been disagreeing with you, and I have given my perspective why I disagree.

Tell me this: Aren't you thinking I should not be disagreeing with you, and I should make it my priority to tell everyone about hell?