Zone1 God of the Old Testament and New Testament

[Meriweather]

Humans have souls. Animals don't, especially animals that we don't connect with. Some might give souls to their pet dogs and cats, but in general, other animals don't have souls.

Well isn't that rather convenient towards humans? God has chose humans to be better than everyone else.


God said "thou shalt not kill", but it doesn't mean "don't kill", it means "don't kill humans" and even then it allows for killing in war and executions. How convenient.

Is more expected of humans?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Is more expected of humans?

Not sure why you ask that.

The point being, there must be trillions upon trillions of creatures out there, why would a god benefit on of those above all others?

 

[Meriweather]

Not sure why you ask that.

The point being, there must be trillions upon trillions of creatures out there, why would a god benefit on of those above all others?

You believe there is greater benefit in being human?

 

[ding]

Not sure why you ask that.

Because it's common sense.

 

[ding]

The point being, there must be trillions upon trillions of creatures out there, why would a god benefit on of those above all others?

Who said God did?

 

[frigidweirdo]

You believe there is greater benefit in being human?

We're just biological creatures, made up of energy

 

[ding]

We're just biological creatures, made up of energy

Energy that popped into existence not being created from existing matter which through the laws of nature were predestined to produce life and intelligence.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

You say that, and yet God appears to be hugely convenient for humans.

Let's put it this way. We live in a galaxy. It has maybe between 100 billion and 400 billion stars. Chances are there's life on other planets around those stars. If life was able to form on Earth, it was able to form on other planets.

Then there are an estimated 100 billion to 200 billion galaxies in the universe, we have no idea. Imagine how many chances for life there are. We even think there's life on asteroids, and when they crash into planets, they help start life on those planets.

A God of this universe would have created life all over, and that life would no doubt be different. Everything is different, every planet, even moon is different.

So why would God be so convenient for humans, if humans are in a solar system with plenty of other planets and moons, in a galaxy with billions of solar systems, with billions of galaxies?

You live in a "video game.". As a video game NPC, When you look up at the night sky, how many stars are required to have other NPCs?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I'm a good person

How do you know you're a good person?

"The wages of sin is death."

What is sin?

"Sin is the breaking of God's Law"

Have you ever sinned?

The penalty is actual death -- ot eternal life in a bad place

No, when this life is over, you will face the Judge. He doesn't judge as you judge

Shabbat Shalom

 

[Meriweather]

We're just biological creatures, made up of energy

My belief is that each of us made up of are body, mind, and soul/spirit. Is it your belief humans are only composed of body and mind?

 

[frigidweirdo]

My belief is that each of us made up of are body, mind, and soul/spirit. Is it your belief humans are only composed of body and mind?

I'm not really sure what the mind is.

The "spirit" is what? And do all living things have a spirit? I saw a leaf on a tree the other doing going like the clappers. I went to point it out to someone, and it stopped, and acted like all the other leaves on the tree. Clearly wasn't the wind doing this.

The potential here is quantum physics. There's a super load of stuff we simply don't understand about quantum physics, like "what is life?"

I'm going to bet that your "spirit" is merely quantum physics at play. We don't understand, so some people have filled that void with "knowledge" they just made up to fill it.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm not really sure what the mind is.

The "spirit" is what? And do all living things have a spirit? I saw a leaf on a tree the other doing going like the clappers. I went to point it out to someone, and it stopped, and acted like all the other leaves on the tree. Clearly wasn't the wind doing this.

The potential here is quantum physics. There's a super load of stuff we simply don't understand about quantum physics, like "what is life?"

I'm going to bet that your "spirit" is merely quantum physics at play. We don't understand, so some people have filled that void with "knowledge" they just made up to fill it.

I think of the mind as the brain, running the body, processing information that comes to us through the senses. As for your leaf: Was their a bug or other life on the leaf? Was the leaf growing, receiving/processing nourishment? Was it quantum physics? Interactions between atoms and molecules? To find out, we explore, we observe.

When the brain/mind presents us with several courses of action, which part of us decides? That is what I consider spirit. Others may argue, no, the brain sends all information to a specific portion of the brain, and presto, out comes a decision, no spirit involved.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I think of the mind as the brain, running the body, processing information that comes to us through the senses. As for your leaf: Was their a bug or other life on the leaf? Was the leaf growing, receiving/processing nourishment? Was it quantum physics? Interactions between atoms and molecules? To find out, we explore, we observe.

When the brain/mind presents us with several courses of action, which part of us decides? That is what I consider spirit. Others may argue, no, the brain sends all information to a specific portion of the brain, and presto, out comes a decision, no spirit involved.

We do. The problem with religion is it often ignores what's there, and replaces it with something else. Like when Galileo got arrested for something that had been know before and would be proven as right later on.

So, you think the spirit is what leads to independent thought?

Well, it's interesting because how many people actually have "independent thought"?

The easiest way for me to explain is from the MA flight that got shot down over the Ukraine. The Dutch picked up all the pieces. The Russians had said it was shot down by a air to air missile. The Dutch proved it was from a SAM, and they even knew the type of SAM.

Why? Because when you have an explosion, the moment it happens, everything is inevitable from that moment on. You can't change anything, there's no choice going on. This energy is going in that direction at that speed, this other energy is going somewhere else, it'll hit other energy with a certain speed. We know what will happen, and we can work backwards and figure it out.

We could do the same with the universe, IF (huge if) we could get all the energy and figure out what it's doing and work backwards.

As a human, you will like certain food. Why? It's the old nature v. nurture, what your body tells you to like and what you learned to like. With hobbies it's the same. With everything it's the same.

I write on here because of the type of person I was born as, and because I've learned, since 1999 when Columbine happened, to do it. Am I really in control. I could choose to stop, and I have (at least on this forum, rather than on the internet) to a certain extent, but it's a part of who I am.

I get bored for many things, why? It's not choice.

Do I have free will? I don't think so. I think thinking you have free will is a survival technique, I think too many people would kill themselves if they thought life was pointless.

As I said, religion is sooooo convenient for humans, the whole "don't commit suicide" part of Catholicism, the whole "we give you a purpose to your lives" etc.... for me, it's not quite proof, but it's huge evidence that God and gods are made by humans, for humans.

 

[Meriweather]

We do. The problem with religion is it often ignores what's there, and replaces it with something else. Like when Galileo got arrested for something that had been know before and would be proven as right later on.

What is often overlooked in Galileo's story is it wasn't his theory at all that led to his arrest. He insisted that the Bible be changed to reflect his theory. The reason it wasn't an unreasonable proposal at the time is that it prior to the printing press, and the Bible was the book most readily available. What Galileo didn't know is that the time would come when his printed theory could be as readily accessible as the Bible. Galileo and the Pope at that time were both stubborn, and it became a personal power struggle. The Pope had Galileo arrested, but it seems to have been more of a house arrest. Should Galileo been allowed to change the Bible? Most would say, No, leave the Bible as it was written. But this is now and that was then.

The easiest way for me to explain is from the MA flight that got shot down over the Ukraine. The Dutch picked up all the pieces. The Russians had said it was shot down by a air to air missile. The Dutch proved it was from a SAM, and they even knew the type of SAM.

Why? Because when you have an explosion, the moment it happens, everything is inevitable from that moment on. You can't change anything, there's no choice going on. This energy is going in that direction at that speed, this other energy is going somewhere else, it'll hit other energy with a certain speed. We know what will happen, and we can work backwards and figure it out.

Choice comes prior to the deed. Once the deed is in motion, most particularly after it reaches its end, it cannot be undone. Choice is prior.

 

[Meriweather]

I get bored for many things, why? It's not choice.

Do I have free will? I don't think so. I think thinking you have free will is a survival technique, I think too many people would kill themselves if they thought life was pointless.

What you do about the boredom is a choice.

As I said, religion is sooooo convenient for humans, the whole "don't commit suicide" part of Catholicism, the whole "we give you a purpose to your lives" etc.... for me, it's not quite proof, but it's huge evidence that God and gods are made by humans, for humans.

It is not any church that brings/gives purpose to life. The purpose of life is to live. The purpose of suicide is to die. The two are at cross-purposes. We might say "best friends" are made by humans as well. A best friend is more a discovery than an invention. The same is true of God. He is not an invention, He is a discovery.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What is often overlooked in Galileo's story is it wasn't his theory at all that led to his arrest. He insisted that the Bible be changed to reflect his theory. The reason it wasn't an unreasonable proposal at the time is that it prior to the printing press, and the Bible was the book most readily available. What Galileo didn't know is that the time would come when his printed theory could be as readily accessible as the Bible. Galileo and the Pope at that time were both stubborn, and it became a personal power struggle. The Pope had Galileo arrested, but it seems to have been more of a house arrest. Should Galileo been allowed to change the Bible? Most would say, No, leave the Bible as it was written. But this is now and that was then.

Choice comes prior to the deed. Once the deed is in motion, most particularly after it reaches its end, it cannot be undone. Choice is prior.

It doesn't bother you that the head of the Church at that time was doing very human things?

You say choice is prior. But the problem is that prior is also after.

There's only one "prior" that isn't an "after" and that's the first one. Everything from the first moment has been written.

When I have nature v. nurture, all of the nature has been written, because that's how I'm born. The choice was to have the baby. But then that choice was written by the grandparents, and the choice to have the grandparents was the great-grandparents and back and back and back we go.

Nurture is the same. Why did my parents decide to bring me up in this way? Because of how they were brought up, their experiences, which were dictated by the nurture their parents got, and on and on backward in time.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What you do about the boredom is a choice.

It is not any church that brings/gives purpose to life. The purpose of life is to live. The purpose of suicide is to die. The two are at cross-purposes. We might say "best friends" are made by humans as well. A best friend is more a discovery than an invention. The same is true of God. He is not an invention, He is a discovery.

It's not a choice though, is it? I'm limited by who I am.

Why do kids have traits from their parents? I'm more like my mother in many regards, I like traveling, my father hates traveling. Is that a "choice" to like traveling? Or was I born with it, and therefore I'm not choosing, I'm merely doing what my body is telling me to do?

Well, you say the "purpose of life is to live", what does "live" mean?

I've known people who had serious mental illness problems. I've had to talk to people who I thought might try and kill themselves. What happens when your life is just pain and there is no "living" going on?

 

[Meriweather]

It doesn't bother you that the head of the Church at that time was doing very human things?

The Pope has always been a human being, and like everyone else, a fallible one at that. There have been some saintly Popes and there have been a few that seem downright criminal. Have you ever heard anyone else digging up a body of a predecessor and putting it on trial? That seems insane.

You say choice is prior. But the problem is that prior is also after.

There's only one "prior" that isn't an "after" and that's the first one. Everything from the first moment has been written.

When I have nature v. nurture, all of the nature has been written, because that's how I'm born. The choice was to have the baby. But then that choice was written by the grandparents, and the choice to have the grandparents was the great-grandparents and back and back and back we go.

Nurture is the same. Why did my parents decide to bring me up in this way? Because of how they were brought up, their experiences, which were dictated by the nurture their parents got, and on and on backward in time.

I don't see how that eliminates choice? I come from a large family and each one of us was very different, making different choices. My children were also very different from one another, were brought up the same way, together but we always going in different directions. They still are. Neither are following the path of either of us parents.

 

[Meriweather]

It's not a choice though, is it? I'm limited by who I am.

Why do kids have traits from their parents? I'm more like my mother in many regards, I like traveling, my father hates traveling. Is that a "choice" to like traveling? Or was I born with it, and therefore I'm not choosing, I'm merely doing what my body is telling me to do?

Well, you say the "purpose of life is to live", what does "live" mean?

I've known people who had serious mental illness problems. I've had to talk to people who I thought might try and kill themselves. What happens when your life is just pain and there is no "living" going on?

Each one of us is unique. Each body has limits, the earth itself has limits. Within these limitations, we all have choices.

We are not just a unique individual. We are also a memberd of a community(s). We have responsibilities both to self and to our community. The choice that may seem best for the one, may be the abysmal one for other members of the one's community.

 

[ding]

The "spirit" is what? And do all living things have a spirit? I saw a leaf on a tree the other doing going like the clappers. I went to point it out to someone, and it stopped, and acted like all the other leaves on the tree. Clearly wasn't the wind doing this.

Trees release pheromones to warn other trees of danger, such as pests.
Trees release scents to attract natural predators to help them fight pests.
Trees use the network to find other trees that are related to them.
Trees share nutrients and water with seedlings to help them grow.