Fruit of the Poisonous Tree.. Warrant for raid was un-Constitutional so all this other jibber jabber doesn't amount to anything

[j-mac]

trump University.
You know......$25 Million.

Does that count?

That was a civil case he settled….no criminal charges or convictions…

 

[j-mac]

Paid $2million for stealing charitable money that was supposed to go to kids with cancer. The MFr was stealing cancer money for Gods sake. And that's your hero?

No criminal charges or convictions.

 

[j-mac]

Why don't you go riot the streets in protest of the FBI doing its job then?

We know you will when no charges come of it.

 

[Grumblenuts]

At the time, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson in Washington D.C. rejected the lawsuit, finding there was no allowance in the Presidential Records Act that would allow officials to force the Archives to grab the records from Clinton.

At the time, apples weren't oranges, just as they aren't now. Similarly, the Archives have never been "forced" (at gunpoint presumably?) to do shit. Nonetheless, they are clearly obliged to do their work as the PRA (law) makes plain.

Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. ß2201-2209, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents that were created or received after January 20, 1981 (i.e., beginning with the Reagan Administration). The PRA changed the legal ownership of the official records of...

www.archives.gov

 

[kyzr]

At the time, apples weren't oranges, just as they aren't now. Similarly, the Archives have never been "forced" (at gunpoint presumably?) to do shit. Nonetheless, they are clearly obliged to do their work as the PRA (law) makes plain.

Agreed. But the PRA is not a criminal statute. Bubba Clinton got the decision on what is "personal"....if he has it, its personal. There is no justification for the fucking FBI to raid the ex-president's home and grab every paper there, even "atty-client privileged", or "personal property". A search warrant has to look for very specific evidence, evidence of specific crime, and only take that very specific evidence.
We both know that Garland and Wray were being pressured by the WH to grab Trump documents to look for any incriminating evidence related to J6. The clock is ticking on the J6 committee, and they still have zero on Trump.
The PRA is just the mechanism they used to justify the illegal search and seizure.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Under the Presidential Records Act, presidential records are considered federal property — not private — and are supposed to be turned over to the National Archives and Records Administration. Multiple federal laws govern the handling of classified and sensitive government documents, including statutes that make it a crime to remove such material and retain it at an unauthorized location.

 

[kyzr]

Grumble:
"At the time, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson in Washington D.C. rejected the lawsuit, finding there was no allowance in the Presidential Records Act that would allow officials to force the Archives to grab the records from Clinton.
The ruling also determined that “a president’s discretion on what are personal vs. official records is far-reaching and solely his, as is his ability to declassify or destroy records at will,” the report explained."

Legal precedent says that what Trump claims is his personal property is his personal property, period.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Legal precedent says that what Trump claims is his personal property is his personal property, period.

One precedent involving oranges, not apples. Hillary was never President. The "sock drawer tapes" were likely copies of Presidential records at best. Your desperation is all that's evident.

 

[Marener]

The PRA also allows the president to have personal records. The fight is over which are which.

There is no rational or logical argument that documents labeled top secret could be considered personal records based on the definition of the PRA.

Furthermore, the president has not claimed these are personal documents. He has not claimed they’re declassified. All he’s said is that he turned all of them over and that was a lie which prompted a search warrant.

 

[kyzr]

One precedent involving oranges, not apples. Hillary was never President. The "sock drawer tapes" were likely copies of Presidential records at best. Your desperation is all that's evident.

If you actually read the article, or google it, there are many sources, you'd see that they were Bill Clinton's tapes, not Hillary's. Here it is again.

‘Fight!’ Poll shows 74 percent say Trump acted with bravery and defiance after assassination attempt

By Robert Romano “Fight!” That was former President Donald Trump’s immediate statement to his supporters at the tragic Butler, Pa. campaign rally on July 13 that claimed the life of Corey Comperatore as he shielded his family and injured Trump and two others, letting everyone know that he and...

ussanews.com

 

[kyzr]

There is no rational or logical argument that documents labeled top secret could be considered personal records based on the definition of the PRA.
Furthermore, the president has not claimed these are personal documents. He has not claimed they’re declassified. All he’s said is that he turned all of them over and that was a lie which prompted a search warrant.

If Trump said that they are declassified, and they are his, they are declassified and they are his, period.
As per legal precedent.

 

[Marener]

If Trump said that they are declassified, and they are his, they are declassified and they are his, period.
As per legal precedent.

Ignore whatever you think “legal precedent” is for right now.

Do you think these documents could be rationally described as personal documents rather than presidential records?

 

[Grumblenuts]

If you actually read the article, or google it, there are many sources, you'd see that they were Bill Clinton's tapes, not Hillary's.

Gee, no kidding. Never said otherwise. What you conveniently ignore (and your sources readily admit) is that they were copies. The originals would clearly be presidential records (the people's property), whereas copies could be considered personal property. Apples and oranges.

Now, Einstein: the boxes of crap found at Mar-a-Lago,.. Copies? Which are originals? Who's job description obliges them to find out? Who "owns" the originals?