DeathPanels are Back

[ihopehefails]

Yes folks the the beauracracy that will establish who gets health care and who does not are back and it still in this bill. I know all the arguments that private insurance has "deathpanels" but are you not aware that any business or individuals for that matter has the right to deny you something that they have especially if they did not agree to give you those things in the first place in something stated in a CONTRACT.

This is the price we pay for freedom because freedom does not mean we can force our will onto others and deny them their freedom but the right to execute the powers we have in our own life without the hinderence of government.

And yes, I would prefer private insurance death panels over government death panels because at least then if I had money I can get that deathpanel to give me things. I will not be able to do that in a government insurance scheme.

 

[California Girl]

If Dr Ezekiel Emanuel (Rahm's bro) is anything to do with it, you can take that to the bank.

 

[Jay Canuck]

"This bill is the greatest threat to freedom that I've seen in the 19 years I've been in Washington.
-- John Boehner, paid by BIG PHARM to say crazy things, Link

"It is in fact socialism. It is a true, very scary threat."
-- Former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO), saying that he agrees with John Boehner that the health care provided for every member of congress is socialism run amuck, [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7IY1wQDkWU"]Link[/ame]

 

[Luissa]

do not understand what end of life counceling is?

 

[Luissa]

Yes folks the the beauracracy that will establish who gets health care and who does not are back and it still in this bill. I know all the arguments that private insurance has "deathpanels" but are you not aware that any business or individuals for that matter has the right to deny you something that they have especially if they did not agree to give you those things in the first place in something stated in a CONTRACT.

This is the price we pay for freedom because freedom does not mean we can force our will onto others and deny them their freedom but the right to execute the powers we have in our own life without the hinderence of government.

And yes, I would prefer private insurance death panels over government death panels because at least then if I had money I can get that deathpanel to give me things. I will not be able to do that in a government insurance scheme.

never seen a hospice patient kicked off medicare.

 

[ihopehefails]

Yes folks the the beauracracy that will establish who gets health care and who does not are back and it still in this bill. I know all the arguments that private insurance has "deathpanels" but are you not aware that any business or individuals for that matter has the right to deny you something that they have especially if they did not agree to give you those things in the first place in something stated in a CONTRACT.

This is the price we pay for freedom because freedom does not mean we can force our will onto others and deny them their freedom but the right to execute the powers we have in our own life without the hinderence of government.

And yes, I would prefer private insurance death panels over government death panels because at least then if I had money I can get that deathpanel to give me things. I will not be able to do that in a government insurance scheme.

never seen a hospice patient kicked off medicare.

I haven't seen anyone get kicked off of private insurance either. I haven't seen medicaid attempt to become the "single payer" of all services. I haven't seen a panel that makes decisions based on societal needs about who gets service and who does not.

 

[California Girl]

do not understand what end of life counceling is?

Actually, yes, I do. And I have no objection to it. And it's an excellent 'strawman' for 'death panels'.... but the death panels are not just about end of life counceling. They are about the kinds of things that Dr Emanuel talked about in the conclusions of one of the research documents used to 'inform' the health care bill. Ya know, the stuff about 'children under the age of two being not fully functioning human beings' and therefore 'less important' for treatment, along with the elderly, disabled people, etc. That's the death panel. What if it's your 2 yr old? Or your disabled relative who the government decide is 'not an appropriate use of resources'?

 

[xotoxi]

I'm thinking of applying for a job on the Death Panel.

Any idea how much they will be paying?

 

[Luissa]

do not understand what end of life counceling is?

Actually, yes, I do. And I have no objection to it. And it's an excellent 'strawman' for 'death panels'.... but the death panels are not just about end of life counceling. They are about the kinds of things that Dr Emanuel talked about in the conclusions of one of the research documents used to 'inform' the health care bill. Ya know, the stuff about 'children under the age of two being not fully functioning human beings' and therefore 'less important' for treatment, along with the elderly, disabled people, etc. That's the death panel. What if it's your 2 yr old? Or your disabled relative who the government decide is 'not an appropriate use of resources'?

do you also wear a tin foil hat? And you also obviously thing doctors should not be paid for end of life counceling either?
Do you know how many elderly people recieve care that they don't need and could possibly make their life even shorter?

 

[ihopehefails]

do not understand what end of life counceling is?

Actually, yes, I do. And I have no objection to it. And it's an excellent 'strawman' for 'death panels'.... but the death panels are not just about end of life counceling. They are about the kinds of things that Dr Emanuel talked about in the conclusions of one of the research documents used to 'inform' the health care bill. Ya know, the stuff about 'children under the age of two being not fully functioning human beings' and therefore 'less important' for treatment, along with the elderly, disabled people, etc. That's the death panel. What if it's your 2 yr old? Or your disabled relative who the government decide is 'not an appropriate use of resources'?

That is my sentiment exactly that deathpanels will make choices based on some drkavorkian thinking.

 

[Luissa]

Yes folks the the beauracracy that will establish who gets health care and who does not are back and it still in this bill. I know all the arguments that private insurance has "deathpanels" but are you not aware that any business or individuals for that matter has the right to deny you something that they have especially if they did not agree to give you those things in the first place in something stated in a CONTRACT.

This is the price we pay for freedom because freedom does not mean we can force our will onto others and deny them their freedom but the right to execute the powers we have in our own life without the hinderence of government.

And yes, I would prefer private insurance death panels over government death panels because at least then if I had money I can get that deathpanel to give me things. I will not be able to do that in a government insurance scheme.

never seen a hospice patient kicked off medicare.

I haven't seen anyone get kicked off of private insurance either. I haven't seen medicaid attempt to become the "single payer" of all services. I haven't seen a panel that makes decisions based on societal needs about who gets service and who does not.

End of life counceling means coming up with a plan to that is most comfortable and most effective for a patient not denying them care. I have been apart of care meeting and end of life care meetings, have you?

 

[ihopehefails]

do not understand what end of life counceling is?

Actually, yes, I do. And I have no objection to it. And it's an excellent 'strawman' for 'death panels'.... but the death panels are not just about end of life counceling. They are about the kinds of things that Dr Emanuel talked about in the conclusions of one of the research documents used to 'inform' the health care bill. Ya know, the stuff about 'children under the age of two being not fully functioning human beings' and therefore 'less important' for treatment, along with the elderly, disabled people, etc. That's the death panel. What if it's your 2 yr old? Or your disabled relative who the government decide is 'not an appropriate use of resources'?

do you also wear a tin foil hat? And you also obviously thing doctors should not be paid for end of life counceling either?
Do you know how many elderly people recieve care that they don't need and could possibly make their life even shorter?

Do you know how much it would such if some old person was fighting for their life and wanted to live but would be denied by some govt official because they didn't think there life was worth the effort. You people make me sick sometimes.

 

[Luissa]

Actually, yes, I do. And I have no objection to it. And it's an excellent 'strawman' for 'death panels'.... but the death panels are not just about end of life counceling. They are about the kinds of things that Dr Emanuel talked about in the conclusions of one of the research documents used to 'inform' the health care bill. Ya know, the stuff about 'children under the age of two being not fully functioning human beings' and therefore 'less important' for treatment, along with the elderly, disabled people, etc. That's the death panel. What if it's your 2 yr old? Or your disabled relative who the government decide is 'not an appropriate use of resources'?

do you also wear a tin foil hat? And you also obviously thing doctors should not be paid for end of life counceling either?
Do you know how many elderly people recieve care that they don't need and could possibly make their life even shorter?

Do you know how much it would such if some old person was fighting for their life and wanted to live but would be denied by some govt official because they didn't think there life was worth the effort. You people make me sick sometimes.

I am not talking about denying them care, I am talking about explaining to their family what treatments would be best for them. For instance giving someone with end stage dementia chemortherapy in my eyes is cruel especially when they cannot remember that they have cancer and have no clue why the end of of life is so miserable because their children can let go. How about giving someone with end stage dementia and congestive heart failure a total hip replacement and they die four days later because of the strain from the surgerory put on their body. How about explaining to a family member why their relative who is hospice would be better off not eating or drinking water near the end of their life because it makes them more comfortable.
How about someone who didn't really have anyone and no one bothered to get them guardian for when they couldnt take care of themselves anymore and someone usually a family member steals their whole live savings. They could also be a line another lady I cared for who did not have a guardian and her son beat the shit out of her.
All end of life counceling is letting people know their options and helping them put a plan in place so the end of their life is as comfortable as possible.

 

[Oldandtired]

Yes folks the the beauracracy that will establish who gets health care and who does not are back and it still in this bill. I know all the arguments that private insurance has "deathpanels" but are you not aware that any business or individuals for that matter has the right to deny you something that they have especially if they did not agree to give you those things in the first place in something stated in a CONTRACT.

This is the price we pay for freedom because freedom does not mean we can force our will onto others and deny them their freedom but the right to execute the powers we have in our own life without the hinderence of government.

And yes, I would prefer private insurance death panels over government death panels because at least then if I had money I can get that deathpanel to give me things. I will not be able to do that in a government insurance scheme.

never seen a hospice patient kicked off medicare.

Never heard of a surgeon amputating a foot that did not need to for profit.
No pediatrician I know or ever heard of taking out tonsils that diod not need to for a profit.

But when it comes to an 80 year old who requires a hip replacement.....somnething tells me that will not be an option.

Sort of a logical hypothesis on my part.

 

[California Girl]

I'm thinking of applying for a job on the Death Panel.

Any idea how much they will be paying?

If you need a referee, dude, I am there for you! I think this is the perfect job for you..... And, I bet it comes with a great health care package.

 

[California Girl]

do not understand what end of life counceling is?

Actually, yes, I do. And I have no objection to it. And it's an excellent 'strawman' for 'death panels'.... but the death panels are not just about end of life counceling. They are about the kinds of things that Dr Emanuel talked about in the conclusions of one of the research documents used to 'inform' the health care bill. Ya know, the stuff about 'children under the age of two being not fully functioning human beings' and therefore 'less important' for treatment, along with the elderly, disabled people, etc. That's the death panel. What if it's your 2 yr old? Or your disabled relative who the government decide is 'not an appropriate use of resources'?

do you also wear a tin foil hat? And you also obviously thing doctors should not be paid for end of life counceling either?
Do you know how many elderly people recieve care that they don't need and could possibly make their life even shorter?

Have you read his research?

 

[ihopehefails]

do you also wear a tin foil hat? And you also obviously thing doctors should not be paid for end of life counceling either?
Do you know how many elderly people recieve care that they don't need and could possibly make their life even shorter?

Do you know how much it would such if some old person was fighting for their life and wanted to live but would be denied by some govt official because they didn't think there life was worth the effort. You people make me sick sometimes.

I am not talking about denying them care, I am talking about explaining to their family what treatments would be best for them. For instance giving someone with end stage dementia chemortherapy in my eyes is cruel especially when they cannot remember that they have cancer and have no clue why the end of of life is so miserable because their children can let go. How about giving someone with end stage dementia and congestive heart failure a total hip replacement and they die four days later because of the strain from the surgerory put on their body. How about explaining to a family member why their relative who is hospice would be better off not eating or drinking water near the end of their life because it makes them more comfortable.
How about someone who didn't really have anyone and no one bothered to get them guardian for when they couldnt take care of themselves anymore and someone usually a family member steals their whole live savings. They could also be a line another lady I cared for who did not have a guardian and her son beat the shit out of her.
All end of life counceling is letting people know their options and helping them put a plan in place so the end of their life is as comfortable as possible.

Why do we need that when people usually do that on their own anyways. Have you thought of that? I'm wondering why people who already have a means to pay for their own health care and already do that in their own private life need the government to tell them what to do because that wasn't a major complaint about health insurance that I know of so why the fuck did they put that in. Do you have an answer?

 

[Tech_Esq]

do you also wear a tin foil hat? And you also obviously thing doctors should not be paid for end of life counceling either?
Do you know how many elderly people recieve care that they don't need and could possibly make their life even shorter?

Do you know how much it would such if some old person was fighting for their life and wanted to live but would be denied by some govt official because they didn't think there life was worth the effort. You people make me sick sometimes.

I am not talking about denying them care, I am talking about explaining to their family what treatments would be best for them. For instance giving someone with end stage dementia chemortherapy in my eyes is cruel especially when they cannot remember that they have cancer and have no clue why the end of of life is so miserable because their children can let go. How about giving someone with end stage dementia and congestive heart failure a total hip replacement and they die four days later because of the strain from the surgerory put on their body. How about explaining to a family member why their relative who is hospice would be better off not eating or drinking water near the end of their life because it makes them more comfortable.
How about someone who didn't really have anyone and no one bothered to get them guardian for when they couldnt take care of themselves anymore and someone usually a family member steals their whole live savings. They could also be a line another lady I cared for who did not have a guardian and her son beat the shit out of her.
All end of life counceling is letting people know their options and helping them put a plan in place so the end of their life is as comfortable as possible.

I was very interested in how all this was handled when the government does it. So, I Googled how the British handle health care for elders there. I'm sure it isn't exactly the same, but it would have a similar flavor here. I found a site, didn't memorize it but it was first page of a Google search. It was a government site that explained to seniors what services were available to them so they could take advantage of them.

Some interesting excerpts:

If you are a woman in Britain:

- you can have a Pap test every 5 years between the ages of 50 and 70.

- you can have a mammogram every 3 years between the ages of 50 and 70.

What happens if you get cervical cancer or breast cancer after 70? Why not test for it? Well sweety, really.....you can hardly expect the government to pay to test for something it has no intention of treating, now can we?

 

[Mike458877]

Yes folks the the beauracracy that will establish who gets health care and who does not are back and it still in this bill. I know all the arguments that private insurance has "deathpanels" but are you not aware that any business or individuals for that matter has the right to deny you something that they have especially if they did not agree to give you those things in the first place in something stated in a CONTRACT.

This is the price we pay for freedom because freedom does not mean we can force our will onto others and deny them their freedom but the right to execute the powers we have in our own life without the hinderence of government.

And yes, I would prefer private insurance death panels over government death panels because at least then if I had money I can get that deathpanel to give me things. I will not be able to do that in a government insurance scheme.

This bill and each one they have drafted or partially drafted so far is full of so much trash, they are just more government infractions on rights, waste of money and driving us end user coasts to us.

Even if it is possible for the republican and democrats to negotiate out a bill for passage and white house approval, given the posture in Washington right now, it will hurt the citizen.

The liberals are attacking the problems wrong and the republicans are not standing firm enough.

Mike

 

[Tech_Esq]

Do you know how much it would such if some old person was fighting for their life and wanted to live but would be denied by some govt official because they didn't think there life was worth the effort. You people make me sick sometimes.

I am not talking about denying them care, I am talking about explaining to their family what treatments would be best for them. For instance giving someone with end stage dementia chemortherapy in my eyes is cruel especially when they cannot remember that they have cancer and have no clue why the end of of life is so miserable because their children can let go. How about giving someone with end stage dementia and congestive heart failure a total hip replacement and they die four days later because of the strain from the surgerory put on their body. How about explaining to a family member why their relative who is hospice would be better off not eating or drinking water near the end of their life because it makes them more comfortable.
How about someone who didn't really have anyone and no one bothered to get them guardian for when they couldnt take care of themselves anymore and someone usually a family member steals their whole live savings. They could also be a line another lady I cared for who did not have a guardian and her son beat the shit out of her.
All end of life counceling is letting people know their options and helping them put a plan in place so the end of their life is as comfortable as possible.

Why do we need that when people usually do that on their own anyways. Have you thought of that? I'm wondering why people who already have a means to pay for their own health care and already do that in their own private life need the government to tell them what to do because that wasn't a major complaint about health insurance that I know of so why the fuck did they put that in. Do you have an answer?

You know the only way this works is if the government succeeds in rationing care to the people who use it the most. That's the old people.... right now. We'll get to the others after we've dealt with the old profligate health care abusers.

Once we get their health consumption numbers in line with the rest of the population, then we'll deal with the other profligate abusers of the health system. Of course, they'll be dead......but there's no need for a panel....really.