Cal Thomas: Make rioters pay Restitution for damage in Ferguson (duh!)

[Gracie]

The problem is, Emily, that decent people would WANT to do the right thing. The people that destroyed Ferguson don't care one iota what decent people do. Criminals don't care one iota of laws. Thugs don't care one iota what their actions do to hurt someone else. Ya can't keep building and KNOWING those folks are still out there..in force..that will just destroy it all over again. Let them live in their shitholes.

 

[emilynghiem]

The problem is, Emily, that decent people would WANT to do the right thing. The people that destroyed Ferguson don't care one iota what decent people do. Criminals don't care one iota of laws. Thugs don't care one iota what their actions do to hurt someone else. Ya can't keep building and KNOWING those folks are still out there..in force..that will just destroy it all over again. Let them live in their shitholes.

Dear Gracie
the MOMENT you realize what you just said above ^
is what these people "think" about govt and police.

"they don't care so why should we"

the minute you decide you can do something to change this
that is what it takes for 'those people' to change their minds.

The change is mutual, Gracie. When you realize this, it is empowering!

It takes just as much for you to get this fear out of your head "that people don't care so I am helpless"
that is causing THEM to think the SAME WAY

that is the KEY

you change your mind and find a better way to frame this
and they do the same! you do more to influence others when you make that leap first.

we influence EACH OTHER to overcome this mutual barrier
where both side thinks "the problem is the other group doesn't care and so I am helpless to change that"

you change your side
they change theirs

it's mutual. when both are ready to drop the barriers and facade.

Bless that cop and that kid * [REVISED: in the OP photo]
they were both unsure going into this,
but as the officer said, that kid was brave to confront his fears.

So we need to honor that kid and that cop * [REVISED: in the OP photo]
and confront our fears and be just as brave.

Thank you, Gracie
I am sorry for all the struggles you've faced with people who are messed up.
This is the only way I know that works to get us out of that mess.

 

[Gracie]

I will NEVER honor that kid. Ever.

 

[emilynghiem]

I will NEVER honor that kid. Ever.

Sorry, the kid in the photo! hugging that cop!

 

[emilynghiem]

Guess you've never been the victim of a robbery.

Surprising their victim is very important.

I've been the victim of worse, and yes I was shocked.
I was forced to have an abortion against my will by my boyfriend at the time I thought I understood.
So this was worse than rape, because it was blamed on me as the victim.

I've been judged as a murderer for something I did not believe in but was forced
on me, and people go around saying it was "my choice.' Like people think a rape victim
chose to walk into that.

Totally did not see it coming, and would never have thought this guy was my future husband
and we would get married and have the baby as he promised, knowing and stating I did not believe in abortion
and if I got pregnant then I will have the baby.

All that was robbed from me, and I was blamed for it on top of it all.

I found out he had been cheating and was covering it up out of guilt.

So this is how I found out the hard way, if you are going to see in advance
who is fraudulent, in denial or hiding things, you look into their family history.

If they haven't resolved past issues, they are going to REPEAT them.

So you can screen anyone in advance, and tell 90-98% of the time
if someone has abuse issues.

Maybe 1-2% can hide it even from experts.

But my friends who practice spiritual healing can READ into people
and TELL if they are still sick and in denial. They are not fooled.

You can detect these things, and one day we'll get smart
and develop scientific technology to detect criminal brains
in advance, similar to detecting cancer or diabetes. it is an illness
it has a cause and symptoms.

Some diseases and cancer cases can't be detected in advance.
so it won't be perfect. But most cases have signs and people's
attitudes follow patterns. Once I knew what to look for, I could see
this repeating in any family that has patterns passed down from parents to kids.
There are prison rehab programs that work on this, that identify and break
that cycle between parents and kids instead of letting it repeat another generation.
Whole therapies are based on this concept.

it's not that hard to see but harder to do. we are so caught up
in our own denial and projection of blame, we can't see if other people
really have problems if we are too busy with our own.

But if everyone were busy SOLVING problems
then the people with no interest in this would stand out.

Uh, I was talking about your random criminal, not rape by a boyfriend.

And any criminal is born of a man and a woman
and has family psychology that follows a pattern, inherited by family history.

This applies to all people, whether someone we know or someone we don't.

mudwhistle I guess I could dig up links to reports of WHOLE CITIES
that have gotten rid of crime by using spiritual healing to unite the
community and weed out anything negative that opens the door to crime.

Whole cities have achieved this.
we don't do this in America because people have
freedom and are using it to reject Christianity instead of
researching and using spiritual healing to cure diseases
including mental and criminal illness.

China may discover this first, and implement it as policy
before American's do who rely on science to prove it first.

Note: the city I heard about doing this had regular meetings for community prayers
in some outdoor arena like a stadium? but it helps boost the unity and weed out
drugs, prostitution, and crime.

here is one report I found about a town in Africa, but this may be embellished:
The power of prayer over witchcraft

I do believe that witchcraft and occult twists energy and thoughts around to be very negative and start people accusing and abusing each other. I've had friends suffer for years until they agreed to drop the connections with dark forces and magic that attracted harmful energy and events. One friend had people dying all around him. it's very negative energy.

David Berkowitz tries to warn people about this in his testimony over occult influences
that manifested in criminal obsessions that drove him to kill people, which he didn't understand
until he was freed of these influences:
David Berkowitz s former Son of Sam Testimony Translations

So people like him can reach out and encourage others to come forward and get help like they did, expect BEFORE it's too late.

There are some you can reach but there are some who are beyond reach. They cannot change. Problem is, when our president is constantly making excuses for them they have less reason to change.

Well the President WANTS that amnesty bill paid for.
So let's use that as leverage.

What I propose, as a Democrat, is to have all supporters,
all immigrants who have enjoyed amnesty to chip in and raise the money to pay for that bill.

I'd even SUE the Democrats to pay for all this health care and immigration reform.

Let's set a precedent that if you want a policy implemented then be willing to pay for it yourself if you want it so much!

THAT is taking social responsibility.
We best show that by our direct example.

As a Democrat, who has watched all this nonsense go on at taxpayers' expense,
I more than welcome this idea of holding parties to pay for their own political beliefs
the same way we expect churches to pay for their religious programming.

 

[Conservative65]

1) So as long as money for research is being spent on what you think, it's OK. If not, it's not OK.

2) So everyone should pay for what you want done?

3) Free to whom? Again, guess who pays for that "free" stuff? Shouldn't restitution for past crimes go to the ones on whom the crime was committed. As a business owner, if restitution is being paid, it should be paid to those victimized.

Everything you've proposed involves taxpayers.

NO NO NO
That's why I suggest this!

Let people CHOOSE what they want to pay for, the crime prevention in advance or after the fact.

People who DON'T want to pay for executions can pay for a deportation system instead.
People who DON'T want to pay for life imprisonment
can agree to compel convicts to pay for their OWN costs.

We're already spending billions on prisons.
People are ALREADY protesting money wasted on research they don't believe in.
why not give them a CHOICE to fund other methods.

It's all by FREE CHOICE of taxpayers to fund what they believe in.
by free exercise of religion, people have that right not to fund things against their beliefs.

why not organize the funding so people can pay by party
and by policy what they believe or don't believe in funding.

So Democrats who believe in funding health care and immigrants can pay for that.
instead of funding war and let Republicans pay for that and costs of helping Vets.
etc.

The only thing I choose to fund is the bullets I own that, while it may not prevent future attempts at crime, it will prevent the one currently making the bad choice to steal from me. Those who could potentially make that bad choice later would either learn from what they saw happening to the ones now or they will deal with the same consequences.

 

[Conservative65]

Guess you've never been the victim of a robbery.

Surprising their victim is very important.

I've been the victim of worse, and yes I was shocked.
I was forced to have an abortion against my will by my boyfriend at the time I thought I understood.
So this was worse than rape, because it was blamed on me as the victim.

I've been judged as a murderer for something I did not believe in but was forced
on me, and people go around saying it was "my choice.' Like people think a rape victim
chose to walk into that.

Totally did not see it coming, and would never have thought this guy was my future husband
and we would get married and have the baby as he promised, knowing and stating I did not believe in abortion
and if I got pregnant then I will have the baby.

All that was robbed from me, and I was blamed for it on top of it all.

I found out he had been cheating and was covering it up out of guilt.

So this is how I found out the hard way, if you are going to see in advance
who is fraudulent, in denial or hiding things, you look into their family history.

If they haven't resolved past issues, they are going to REPEAT them.

So you can screen anyone in advance, and tell 90-98% of the time
if someone has abuse issues.

Maybe 1-2% can hide it even from experts.

But my friends who practice spiritual healing can READ into people
and TELL if they are still sick and in denial. They are not fooled.

You can detect these things, and one day we'll get smart
and develop scientific technology to detect criminal brains
in advance, similar to detecting cancer or diabetes. it is an illness
it has a cause and symptoms.

Some diseases and cancer cases can't be detected in advance.
so it won't be perfect. But most cases have signs and people's
attitudes follow patterns. Once I knew what to look for, I could see
this repeating in any family that has patterns passed down from parents to kids.
There are prison rehab programs that work on this, that identify and break
that cycle between parents and kids instead of letting it repeat another generation.
Whole therapies are based on this concept.

it's not that hard to see but harder to do. we are so caught up
in our own denial and projection of blame, we can't see if other people
really have problems if we are too busy with our own.

But if everyone were busy SOLVING problems
then the people with no interest in this would stand out.

Uh, I was talking about your random criminal, not rape by a boyfriend.

And any criminal is born of a man and a woman
and has family psychology that follows a pattern, inherited by family history.

This applies to all people, whether someone we know or someone we don't.

mudwhistle I guess I could dig up links to reports of WHOLE CITIES
that have gotten rid of crime by using spiritual healing to unite the
community and weed out anything negative that opens the door to crime.

Whole cities have achieved this.
we don't do this in America because people have
freedom and are using it to reject Christianity instead of
researching and using spiritual healing to cure diseases
including mental and criminal illness.

China may discover this first, and implement it as policy
before American's do who rely on science to prove it first.

Note: the city I heard about doing this had regular meetings for community prayers
in some outdoor arena like a stadium? but it helps boost the unity and weed out
drugs, prostitution, and crime.

here is one report I found about a town in Africa, but this may be embellished:
The power of prayer over witchcraft

I do believe that witchcraft and occult twists energy and thoughts around to be very negative and start people accusing and abusing each other. I've had friends suffer for years until they agreed to drop the connections with dark forces and magic that attracted harmful energy and events. One friend had people dying all around him. it's very negative energy.

David Berkowitz tries to warn people about this in his testimony over occult influences
that manifested in criminal obsessions that drove him to kill people, which he didn't understand
until he was freed of these influences:
David Berkowitz s former Son of Sam Testimony Translations

So people like him can reach out and encourage others to come forward and get help like they did, expect BEFORE it's too late.

There are some you can reach but there are some who are beyond reach. They cannot change. Problem is, when our president is constantly making excuses for them they have less reason to change.

And some that simply don't want to be reached. People change when they decide to change not when some feel-good, bleeding heart wants them to.

 

[airplanemechanic]

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And you would spend the rest of your life in prison for murder, if not get the needle. You can't shoot to defend "stuff." It's "stuff" it can be replaced.

 

[irosie91]

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And you would spend the rest of your life in prison for murder, if not get the needle. You can't shoot to defend "stuff." It's "stuff" it can be replaced.

US law----actually state laws----are a bit more considerate of
the rights of a person whose property is invaded by a criminal.
Check out various state laws regarding criminal trespass

 

[airplanemechanic]

And check out state laws regarding shooting to defend property. if they come in unarmed, grab a TV and run out, you can't shoot them. That is murder.

Criminal trespass laws have to do with your HOME, not place of business.

Is It Legal to Defend Your Business From Looters - Free Enterprise

Even in states with "Stand Your Ground" laws, it is generally not legally justifiable to shoot someone in order to protect property alone. These laws apply to provide protection to those who use force to defend themselves in the face of great bodily harm or death, not their storefronts.

So go ahead and shoot to defend your property, I'll go visit you in prison.

 

[irosie91]

And check out state laws regarding shooting to defend property. if they come in unarmed, grab a TV and run out, you can't shoot them. That is murder.

Criminal trespass laws have to do with your HOME, not place of business.

Is It Legal to Defend Your Business From Looters - Free Enterprise

Criminal trespass refers to any property you own (or even rent) or of which you are "in charge" ----what is unarmed?
A strong person holding a TV can throw it at you and break
your neck. It is absolutely true that one cannot shoot a retreating invader in the back-----so don't do it

 

[airplanemechanic]

Wrong. Read the site I just posted.

Is It Legal to Defend Your Business From Looters - Free Enterprise

Even in states with "Stand Your Ground" laws, it is generally not legally justifiable to shoot someone in order to protect property alone. These laws apply to provide protection to those who use force to defend themselves in the face of great bodily harm or death, not their storefronts.

You can't shoot someone for what they "could" do. Anyone carrying a TV could throw it at you, so you're going to shoot everyone who carries a TV in your store?

 

[irosie91]

Wrong. Read the site I just posted.

Is It Legal to Defend Your Business From Looters - Free Enterprise

Even in states with "Stand Your Ground" laws, it is generally not legally justifiable to shoot someone in order to protect property alone. These laws apply to provide protection to those who use force to defend themselves in the face of great bodily harm or death, not their storefronts.

You can't shoot someone for what they "could" do. Anyone carrying a TV could throw it at you, so you're going to shoot everyone who carries a TV in your store?

you are getting really stupid----there is something called
"CASE-LAW"----whole books of cases------VOLUMES ----
if a person "feels" threatened-----and the intruder refuses
to leave---------he has committed CRIMINAL TRESPASS----
If he steals stuff----that is "criminal trespass" too. In the midst of a RIOT------which includes violence----it is actually
logical to be concerned that the criminal is armed.

my brother was foreman of a Jury. He related the miserable
event. A person in a car-----drove his car onto the driveway of a home owner ----an argument took place----the driver
refused to leave-----etc etc-----the homeowner stuck a knife
in him-- The driver drove away as far as he could before
dropping dead The homeowner was acquitted because
the driver had invaded. -------it was ARIZONA---where the cowboys live. THE WHOLE ISSUE was the trespass

 

[Conservative65]

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And you would spend the rest of your life in prison for murder, if not get the needle. You can't shoot to defend "stuff." It's "stuff" it can be replaced.

US law----actually state laws----are a bit more considerate of
the rights of a person whose property is invaded by a criminal.
Check out various state laws regarding criminal trespass

I'm well aware of my state's laws and plan to use them should this type of situation occur as my business or my house.

 

[Conservative65]

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And you would spend the rest of your life in prison for murder, if not get the needle. You can't shoot to defend "stuff." It's "stuff" it can be replaced.

I have a right to protect my private property and myself. Only a jury with people like you would give more consideration to a bunch of shitheads than the person they robbed or vandalized. All I have to do is feel that my life was in danger. Since it would involve me, only I can make that determination not you or anyone else. The laws of my state allow that.

As far as my stuff is concerned, I put more value on it than I do some piece of shit trying to steal it.

 

[irosie91]

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And you would spend the rest of your life in prison for murder, if not get the needle. You can't shoot to defend "stuff." It's "stuff" it can be replaced.

US law----actually state laws----are a bit more considerate of
the rights of a person whose property is invaded by a criminal.
Check out various state laws regarding criminal trespass

I'm well aware of my state's laws and plan to use them should this type of situation occur as my business or my house.

Thanks for your kind invitation to tea at your lovely home-----
........ I am unarmed------and not dangerous-----but sometimes ****MISUNDERSTOOD**** ---a regret that
I must decline your kind invitation

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

Charge every identifiable rioter with riot-related crimes, throw em in a deep dark hole somewhere and move on. If they can actually pay restitution fine, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[Conservative65]

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And you would spend the rest of your life in prison for murder, if not get the needle. You can't shoot to defend "stuff." It's "stuff" it can be replaced.

US law----actually state laws----are a bit more considerate of
the rights of a person whose property is invaded by a criminal.
Check out various state laws regarding criminal trespass

I'm well aware of my state's laws and plan to use them should this type of situation occur as my business or my house.

Thanks for your kind invitation to tea at your lovely home-----
........ I am unarmed------and not dangerous-----but sometimes ****MISUNDERSTOOD**** ---a regret that
I must decline your kind invitation

If you're invited, there isn't a problem. It's those that aren't that should be concerned.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I have a right to protect my private property and myself. Only a jury with people like you would give more consideration to a bunch of shitheads than the person they robbed or vandalized. All I have to do is feel that my life was in danger. Since it would involve me, only I can make that determination not you or anyone else. The laws of my state allow that.

As far as my stuff is concerned, I put more value on it than I do some piece of shit trying to steal it.

Wrong. You have to PROVE your life was in danger. If you look at me wrong and I feel you're a threat, I can shoot you? Of course not.

You do not get to say "well it's me, so its up to me to determine whether I felt at risk, so if I did, I can shoot the son of a bitch." NO STATE allows that. It doesn't work like that. It goes by "reasonable person" standard. If a reasonable person shouldn't have felt threatened, then you shouldn't either. If someone comes in, steals a TV and runs out, no reasonable person would feel their lives were in danger. Thus if you shoot, you have committed murder.

It's people like you that try to be rambo and wind up Butch's sex toy in a cell at the end of the hall.

You can act all Rambo in this forum, but in real life, you better follow the law or you'll become an inactive forum member very quickly. Case law means nothing in self defense cases because each one is unique.

 

[Conservative65]

I have a right to protect my private property and myself. Only a jury with people like you would give more consideration to a bunch of shitheads than the person they robbed or vandalized. All I have to do is feel that my life was in danger. Since it would involve me, only I can make that determination not you or anyone else. The laws of my state allow that.

As far as my stuff is concerned, I put more value on it than I do some piece of shit trying to steal it.

Wrong. You have to PROVE your life was in danger. If you look at me wrong and I feel you're a threat, I can shoot you? Of course not.

You do not get to say "well it's me, so its up to me to determine whether I felt at risk, so if I did, I can shoot the son of a bitch." NO STATE allows that. It doesn't work like that. It goes by "reasonable person" standard. If a reasonable person shouldn't have felt threatened, then you shouldn't either. If someone comes in, steals a TV and runs out, no reasonable person would feel their lives were in danger. Thus if you shoot, you have committed murder.

It's people like you that try to be rambo and wind up Butch's sex toy in a cell at the end of the hall.

You can act all Rambo in this forum, but in real life, you better follow the law or you'll become an inactive forum member very quickly. Case law means nothing in self defense cases because each one is unique.

All that I need for proof is the situation to be one where it could be. Someone burning my business and looting or coming into my house in a manner they shouldn't is all I need.

Funny how you care more about some piece of shit thief than the one being victimized. That puts you in that category.

So you apply a one size fits all standard? Interesting. You might be coward enough to let people steal from you, but some of us aren't. If two people are involved and one can't tell their story, guess who is believed?