Cal Thomas: Make rioters pay Restitution for damage in Ferguson (duh!)

[emilynghiem]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

 

[irosie91]

no way----MOB behavior------is a kind of psychiatric defense ----that's why "MOBS" do the dirty work

 

[emilynghiem]

no way----MOB behavior------is a kind of psychiatric defense ----that's why "MOBS" do the dirty work

OK so for anyone who AGREES to live by MOB rule,
let them be deported to live with gangs on the border who live by that.

If you agree with MOBS you live under them.

If you want to be protected under laws of due process, then don't obstruct justice or deny due process to others.

 

[Conservative65]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

I agree. As a business owner, the restitution would be with their lives if they tried to burn my business.

 

[irosie91]

no way----MOB behavior------is a kind of psychiatric defense ----that's why "MOBS" do the dirty work

OK so for anyone who AGREES to live by MOB rule,
let them be deported to live with gangs on the border who live by that.

If you agree with MOBS you live under them.

If you want to be protected under laws of due process, then don't obstruct justice or deny due process to others.

nice------the difficulty in convicting people who are involved in
a MOB ACTION-------is that it is virtually impossible to prove
WHO DONE IT -------the very best that can be done is find
the persons who directly instigated the mob action------another almost impossible task. Lynchings are the classical MOB ACTIONS and much as been written about that subject from the POV of both law and psychology

 

[emilynghiem]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

I agree. As a business owner, the restitution would be with their lives if they tried to burn my business.

You say that, by free speech,
But in practice you would respect due process and wouldn't try to take justice in your own hands.
You'd try to prevent that by deterring in advance.

That's what makes the difference between law-abiding and not.
Some people can't tell the difference, and actually act out killing people thinking that's justified when it could be prevented.

 

[emilynghiem]

no way----MOB behavior------is a kind of psychiatric defense ----that's why "MOBS" do the dirty work

OK so for anyone who AGREES to live by MOB rule,
let them be deported to live with gangs on the border who live by that.

If you agree with MOBS you live under them.

If you want to be protected under laws of due process, then don't obstruct justice or deny due process to others.

nice------the difficulty in convicting people who are involved in
a MOB ACTION-------is that it is virtually impossible to prove
WHO DONE IT -------the very best that can be done is find
the persons who directly instigated the mob action------another almost impossible task. Lynchings are the classical MOB ACTIONS and much as been written about that subject from the POV of both law and psychology

Simple. Just reward people for reporting who they KNOW was involved.
And punish them if they don't report this knowledge as "conspiring to violate civil rights by obstructing justice"

What if we held parents, friends and colleagues equally responsible for reporting criminal behavior
or be named as an accomplice? What if enabling criminal behavior to harm someone else
was also considered negligence or active participation?

So give people a chance: if you self-report and agree to work with authorities on restitution, then you get to keep your citizenship. If you refuse to work with authorities and deny justice to others, you can lose your citizenship if you commit premeditated crimes with weapons.

Either agree to pay for costs of crimes you commit, or cities/states where residents agree to sign these agreements can ban you from living there if you don't follow local ordinances.

 

[aaronleland]

Sounds like a great idea if it were feasible, but how do you identify every rioter versus peaceful protester?

 

[Conservative65]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

I agree. As a business owner, the restitution would be with their lives if they tried to burn my business.

You say that, by free speech,
But in practice you would respect due process and wouldn't try to take justice in your own hands.
You'd try to prevent that by deterring in advance.

That's what makes the difference between law-abiding and not.
Some people can't tell the difference, and actually act out killing people thinking that's justified when it could be prevented.

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

 

[emilynghiem]

Sounds like a great idea if it were feasible, but how do you identify every rioter versus peaceful protester?

The protestors in LA met with police in advance, and worked out agreements on how to report outside instigators who weren't agreeing to their rules and were trying to incite violence.

You have to meet and agree in advance who's under the agreement and what's the procedure for reporting and correcting violations so everyone's on the same page.

With crime, I would encourage whole communities, neighborhoods, districts to meet with their police
and decide in advance on policies, and how to train all residents in that area. That way you can screen people out
in advance who want to cause trouble and don't agree to follow the rules.

The Zimmerman/Martin incident could have been prevented if there was an agreed policy in advance, and all residents and their guests agreed to follow ID procedures and knew who was and who was not a resident or neighborhood patrol volunteer, and what to do to ask for ID.
Martin might still be alive if there had been training in advance and everyone agreed to the same rules and knew who each other was, and the proper way to card guests.

 

[Conservative65]

no way----MOB behavior------is a kind of psychiatric defense ----that's why "MOBS" do the dirty work

OK so for anyone who AGREES to live by MOB rule,
let them be deported to live with gangs on the border who live by that.

If you agree with MOBS you live under them.

If you want to be protected under laws of due process, then don't obstruct justice or deny due process to others.

nice------the difficulty in convicting people who are involved in
a MOB ACTION-------is that it is virtually impossible to prove
WHO DONE IT -------the very best that can be done is find
the persons who directly instigated the mob action------another almost impossible task. Lynchings are the classical MOB ACTIONS and much as been written about that subject from the POV of both law and psychology

Simple. Just reward people for reporting who they KNOW was involved.
And punish them if they don't report this knowledge as "conspiring to violate civil rights by obstructing justice"

What if we held parents, friends and colleagues equally responsible for reporting criminal behavior
or be named as an accomplice? What if enabling criminal behavior to harm someone else
was also considered negligence or active participation?

Why should people be rewarded for reporting things they should report because it's the right things to do?

Tell that crap to a business owner that had nothing to do with why they are protesting while he loses income or worse because a bunch of animals didn't know how to act.

I'm interested to know why, if the protestors are protesting the police, they aren't targeting the police department. One would think they would go after what they consider the root cause of their protest.

 

[emilynghiem]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

I agree. As a business owner, the restitution would be with their lives if they tried to burn my business.

You say that, by free speech,
But in practice you would respect due process and wouldn't try to take justice in your own hands.
You'd try to prevent that by deterring in advance.

That's what makes the difference between law-abiding and not.
Some people can't tell the difference, and actually act out killing people thinking that's justified when it could be prevented.

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And there are different kinds of madness, that can be prevented from becoming abusive or violent.

Some people have grief or issues that require personal counseling.
Some have longstanding legal or political grievances that the govt should resolve and not let that build up until it erupts.

But some are criminally ill and don't need to run around unsupervised.
All these can be screened in advance and redirected to proper counseling or legal mediation
to resolve the issues and prevent the risk of damage by uncontrolled rage.

it either is resolvable and just human grief or anger.

Or if it is the sick kind, that is criminal illness and should be diagosed early and treated like any other dangerous disease.
We wouldn't let people with Ebola run around free, why should we let people with criminal disease run around risking lives.

 

[Conservative65]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

I agree. As a business owner, the restitution would be with their lives if they tried to burn my business.

You say that, by free speech,
But in practice you would respect due process and wouldn't try to take justice in your own hands.
You'd try to prevent that by deterring in advance.

That's what makes the difference between law-abiding and not.
Some people can't tell the difference, and actually act out killing people thinking that's justified when it could be prevented.

In practice, what I would do if someone was trying to burn my business, one that had nothing to do with why they are protesting, I'd prevent them from doing it and well within my rights under the law. Why should I wait for them to burn it down then hope the justice system would punish them to the level they needed to be punished? The only way to deter it in advance it to make it where those doing such things can't do it.

It could be prevented if the animals doing such things wouldn't do it simply because they're mad.

And there are different kinds of madness, that can be prevented from becoming abusive or violent.

Some people have grief or issues that require personal counseling.
Some have longstanding legal or political grievances that the govt should resolve and not let that build up until it erupts.

But some are criminally ill and don't need to run around unsupervised.
All these can be screened in advance and redirected to proper counseling or legal mediation
to resolve the issues and prevent the risk of damage by uncontrolled rage.

it either is resolvable and just human grief or anger.

Or if it is the sick kind, that is criminal illness and should be diagosed early and treated like any other dangerous disease.
We wouldn't let people with Ebola run around free, why should we let people with criminal disease run around risking lives.

Those longstanding grievances aren't against the businesses they're burning. Like I said, if those grievances are with the police as in this case, why aren't they trying to burn the police station? I know why and I bet you do, too.

I've told you how I'd handle their uncontrolled rage. I don't give a shit why they are doing just that they are and how they need to be dealt with.

 

[bodecea]

Ferguson unrest Make protesters pay for riot damage Fox News

I agree.

Free speech isn't free. If you cause damage while doing it, why should law abiding taxpayers pay your bill?

And if the rioters won't pay,
let's make a deal to fund Obama's Amnesty proposal.

Any illegal immigrants willing to pay back all their costs AND chip in the labor or money to rebuild in Ferguson can trade citizenship with anyone convicted of that damage who refuses to work and pay restitution. Whoever agrees to pay gets to stay; whoever refuses faces deportation.

(And any other immigrants not covered which Obama want to fund, let's sue the Democrat Party to pay for that policy since that's who got this guy elected. The Catholics pay for their own programs under their Pope and Church. Let the Democrats pay for their own health care and immigration policies if that's what they believe.)

Isn't that what the British did to Boston after the Tea Party? Insist they pay for the damages?

 

[emilynghiem]

Why should people be rewarded for reporting things they should report because it's the right things to do?

Because it works and any rewards can come out of the pockets of people convicted and charged fines.

It can be made part of the restitution package.

If people are doing that work, they should get rewarded.
Some crimes by gangs put people at risk for reporting, so it has to be safe and effective.

My boyfriend supports the idea of paying people 250.00 out of fines for any drunk driving conviction that results from someone they report, and the convicted person pays. So you would basically hire civilians to help police do their jobs.
And the fines/rewards would be paid as part of the punishment for drunk driving convictions.

The point is to reduce and deter crimes, so if everyone gets involved
the money still costs less than losing lives to crimes like drunk driving where this idea could be tested out.

 

[bodecea]

no way----MOB behavior------is a kind of psychiatric defense ----that's why "MOBS" do the dirty work

OK so for anyone who AGREES to live by MOB rule,
let them be deported to live with gangs on the border who live by that.

If you agree with MOBS you live under them.

If you want to be protected under laws of due process, then don't obstruct justice or deny due process to others.

nice------the difficulty in convicting people who are involved in
a MOB ACTION-------is that it is virtually impossible to prove
WHO DONE IT -------the very best that can be done is find
the persons who directly instigated the mob action------another almost impossible task. Lynchings are the classical MOB ACTIONS and much as been written about that subject from the POV of both law and psychology

Simple. Just reward people for reporting who they KNOW was involved.
And punish them if they don't report this knowledge as "conspiring to violate civil rights by obstructing justice"

What if we held parents, friends and colleagues equally responsible for reporting criminal behavior
or be named as an accomplice? What if enabling criminal behavior to harm someone else
was also considered negligence or active participation?

So give people a chance: if you self-report and agree to work with authorities on restitution, then you get to keep your citizenship. If you refuse to work with authorities and deny justice to others, you can lose your citizenship if you commit premeditated crimes with weapons.

Either agree to pay for costs of crimes you commit, or cities/states where residents agree to sign these agreements can ban you from living there if you don't follow local ordinances.

That didn't even work with Tail Hook.

 

[emilynghiem]

Those longstanding grievances aren't against the businesses they're burning. Like I said, if those grievances are with the police as in this case, why aren't they trying to burn the police station? I know why and I bet you do, too.

I've told you how I'd handle their uncontrolled rage. I don't give a shit why they are doing just that they are and how they need to be dealt with.

^ you may have answered your own question ^

if you don't care SPECIFICALLY what is causing the rage,
that's like them not caring SPECIFICALLY who their grievance is with.

They collectively protest because they see the police as collective punishing all blacks for the actions of a few.
Then they go do the EXACT same thing and punish all Ferguson, or punish all cops for the actions of a few.

This vicious cycle repeats until people address cases one on one and quit punishing and making statements collectively.

 

[emilynghiem]

Isn't that what the British did to Boston after the Tea Party? Insist they pay for the damages?

Yes and we are still paying for the damages today.

Whatever debts damages and conflicts we don't resolve, the bill gets bigger when it finally does come in.

 

[emilynghiem]

That didn't even work with Tail Hook.

Not everyone's been on the same page at the same time.
The case of Martin/Zimmerman caused division that this Ferguson case refueled.

But this time, more people are trying to get on the same page and stand together.

Next time, maybe more people will succeed in unifying their communities under consistent policies they
AGREE to adhere to and enforce together to keep crime and violence out of their communities.

Or maybe if we organize correctly, there doesn't have to keep being more next times.
There's also the Rice case out of NY getting attention,
and the Chad Holley case got back in the news, probably because of related issues.

BTW regarding military rape, that will take totally unifying more men and women within the armed forces to address. so even this level of unity needs to happen there, too. I think it will make a huge difference to shift to Restorative Justice means of addressing abuses, to encourage people to come forward. like how Mandela and Tutu did in Africa through truth commissions that encouraged people to come forward even if they committed killings and other crimes. And it worked, people did work things out and reconcile through that approach.

 

[mudwhistle]

Change back to shooting looters on sight.

Problem solved.