Zone1 Purgatory is a dangeroes deadly manmade false teaching

ninja007

Gold Member
Aug 4, 2014
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Living rent free in libs heads
Purgatory a spiritual bermuda triangle​


From the 2nd Vatican Council, p. 63, "The truth has been divinely revealed that sins are followed by punishments. God’s holiness and justice inflict them. Sins must be expiated. This may be done on this earth through the sorrows,miseries and trials of this life and, above all, through death. Otherwise the expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments or purifying punishments."


According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1030, "All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven." NOWHERE IS THIS FOUND IN THE BIBLE*


In Catholicism there awaits for those who die in a state of grace a time period where they must be purified by suffering for unrepentant venial sins, to satisfy the demands of divine justice. This is a temporary punishment to convert and prepare them making them worthy so they can enter heavens glory.


Catholics have some persuasive and convincing arguments by for purgatory as they prove it by reason. 1 Cor. 3:12-15 teaches a purification by fire for believers after death.Heb.12:14, "holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord, "which means we must be made absolutely pure to enter heaven. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" (Mt 5:9). All these encompass works, since no one is perfect in this life , we to be perfected in a intermediate state so we can enter heaven? What about such Scriptures? If this is a teaching that is so clear how could millions have missed it for almost two thousand years?


1 Cor. 3:10-15, "According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid,which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


In I Corinthians 3 it is the believer's works, not the believer himself,that will be tested by fire. Paul is not speaking of literal fire any more than he is of literal wood and gold. He is speaking metaphorically, calling some works wood, hay,stubble (which fire burns combustible) and others gold, silver and precious stones (which fire purifies). There is nothing here (or anywhere else in Scripture) to support Catholicism's view that flames in a spiritual zone purge the individual expiating the sins that were not cleansed while they were alive taking the sacraments ( Eucharist. ) What ever is not built on the true foundation will be burnt. It says nothing of punishments but of the quality of ones works related to their rewards. (this is called the Bema Seat)



Paul is teaching on the quality of works one has done for Christ and what if any rewards will be received. If one reads this text correctly we find that ones works can all be burned up and they can still be saved and enter heaven. Why? Because he himself was aon the sure foundation. This destroys the preconceived notion that one must have a certain amount of good deeds for salvation. It also proves justification by faith alone and not by works also. The Day is a reference to the great day of the Lord when he comes again and all the works of men will be judged to see if they are acceptable to God, will they go into eternity or will they vanish. Its a test of whether the work was done on the right foundation by the H.Spirits motivation to be eternal.


Paul says, "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done ( works) in his body, according to that he bath done, whetherit be good or bad." In Revelation 22:12, Christ says, "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be." Our entrance into heaven is not the question, but the reward the Christian will receive in heaven. There are degrees of heavenly rewards. Once we receive the crowns we will cast them to his feet because the Lord who redeemed us was the cause of all we did.(Rev 4:10).


Paul likens the Christian life to running a race for a prize: "They (athletes) do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible [crown]" (I Cor. 9:25). Paul called his converts his "crown of rejoicing" (I Thes. 2:19; Phil 4:1). There are other crowns to be earned as well: "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness" (2 Tim 4:8); "ye shall receive a crown of glory" (IPt 5:4); "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give a crown of life" (Rev.2:10). It is possible to cruise in ones Christian life and lose out, not in salvation, but a crown we had previously won: "hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (Rev 3:11). Salvation is by grace alone, but the reward we receive is based upon our works, which will be tested and their quality revealed at the Judgment Seat of Christ.2 Jn.8 John the apostle warns of deception which can lead to loss of a full reward--of grace not of debt. The reward meant is that of their "work (of faith) and labor of love."


What of Col.1:24, "I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my fleshwhat is lacking in the afflictions of Christ for the sake of his body the church."This is used to show Paul suffered for his salvation. But this is not showing that Paul suffered for his salvation. He is speaking of suffering for the sake of righteousness in his course to fulfill his ministry. The sufferings of Christians should never be confused with the redemptive suffering of Christ for our sins. Remember when Paul was called in Acts 9:15 the Lord said "I will show him how many things he must suffer for my names sake." Our suffering cannot add one benefit to Christ's perfect work of redemption.Trials are to test our faith not to purge sin, only the blood of Jesus can do that. There is no biblical connection between our suffering now or later in purgatory to lose ours ins. (Jm.1:3, Rom.5:3-5 1 Pt.3) it is there to develop faith which is trust in God. Were saved by faith and we mature by faith.


What of Matthew 5:8 and Hebrews 12:14, the Scripture is clear that we cannot attain to a personal holiness or purity that would qualifies us to enter heaven. Heb. 12:14 actually says to pursue peace with all people and holiness. This is referring to ones relationship to others not a personal holiness to have salvation, but for obedience. If we are to have holiness in the way Catholicism claims than we must have peace with all people. Eph.1:1-14 tells us we are holy and blameless before him because of Christ vs.4not because of our achieving a holiness by our own work through his grace. suffering cannot purge us of sin not here now or in some spiritual zone of purgatory later. It is through faith in the blood of Christ that washes our sins away: "when he (Christ) had by purged our sins" (Heb 1:3) "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son purges us from all sin." (I Jn 1:7) Heb. 9:22, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no remission (purging of sin)." Rev. 7:14, "they ... washed (purged) their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Christ)."


Peter declared, "For Christ also bath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God (not to purgatory)" (I Pt 3:18). Catholicism challenges the biblical teachings saying that though Christ endured the eternal punishment for sin, Christ's death, couldn't permanently purify us because personally suffering for our sins is required to become pure enough to enter heaven. Not only does the doctrine of purgatory contradict the Bible, but there is an obvious internal contradiction within the church’s dogma. They teach that after death, people hold masses, rosaries are said, the good deeds and suffering of the living on ones behalf being said for them. They can reduce or even eliminate purgatorial suffering entirely so you don't have to personally suffer after all ! Incredible as it seems, what the redemptive death of Christ on the cross couldn't accomplish, the repetition of the mass,prayers, rosaries, penance, good works can. One can only hope they have left friends and family behind to do theses things on their behalf while they continue to suffer waiting to be purged by their actions from the living. Nowhere in the O.T. or through N.T. give any examples where believers pray for the dead.


2 Pt. 2:9, "The unrighteous are kept under punishment unto the day of judgment." There are only two places of destination, If one is not righteous enough to go to heaven they go to Hell. Obviously its not a personal righteousness but the righteousness of Christ we are clothed in. 2 Cor. 5:21 "we have the righteousness of Christ by faith." Rom.5:19, "For by one mans disobedience all were made sinners so by one mans obedience all will be made righteous." This does no excuse someone who lives unrighteously to do so. But this doctrine can promote that since they can depend on others later to fund their bail.


For what its worth the early Church did not teach such a doctrine Athenagoras,177 AD. " We are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated." (Plea for the Christians 31).


The Bible does not teach perfect holiness in the body or in a intermediate state. We don’t have to be perfect to go to heaven because Satan and his angels appear before God in heaven and they have no purity in works or nature to be allowed before God. If the trials of fire didn't perfect you while you lived in your body what makes you think fire can burn away impurities afterward?


Alexander Hislop in the book the two Babylon’s which he traces the ancient systems of paganism says. In every system therefore except that of the Bible the doctrine of purgatory after death and prayers for the dead has always been found to occupy a prominent place. Pagan religions always had fire to purge ones sins. It was the earthly representative of the Sun God that would bring (Lev.18:21, Jer. 32:25) perfection by burning (passing through the fire).


We walk by faith not by sight. Our confidence is knowing when we leave this earth we are in his presence. Paul considered himself the chief of sinners. If anyone needed to be purged from sin he would. Yet he never says to pray for him, even when he wrote to Timothy before he died, he never mentions purgatory for himself or for anyone else. Or Stephen who was not an apostle in Acts 7:55-60 was stoned to death, before he died his last words were"Jesus receive my Spirit." And Jesus stood up in heaven to receive the first martyr. The Catholic church has a way out of at least some of these passages by saying all martyrs go to heaven. Like Islam the only sure way to heaven is to die (for Jesus). The Biblical definition of salvation means you are forgiven and saved from the penalty of sin.Jn.8:24 Jesus said, "unless you believe I Am you will die in your sins." Jesus solution, believe he is the I Am and when you die you will not be in sin. No sin, no suffering and no purgatory. Jn.5:24, "Whoever believes in him will not come into judgment but has passed from death to life." Jn.8:58, "whoever keeps my word shall never taste death." Death is the sting of sin.


To a Catholic eternal life is a merited reward that he has gained by cooperating with God by his works. While we are to do this, the motivation is very different, one is for salvation the other is because one has it already. Rom.8:1, "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Purgatory is condemnation . As believers we are judged for our conduct and work in relation to rewards not to our destination. Because salvation is a gift that has already been settled. For a Catholic the only difference between ones experience in hell and purgatory is the length of time. What of the O.T. saints that were in Hades for thousands of years. If they were suffering in purgatory how did they have their sins purged. Their were no masses said. No one was praying for them. How does someone know how long they are to pray for them and when to stop. Who knows when enough money has been given to the priest. What if someone has been released and money is still given. If purgatory is for someone to purged their sins and make one perfect for heaven by suffering. And this prompts people to pray rosaries, have masses and indulgences to cleanse them. Then they don’t really need to suffer to be purged you can have others do the alternatives. Yet we are told you are not able to purge your sins without suffering, so which is it. What happens to all the people that are supposedly in this mythical place when Jesus comes and their purging is not complete. And what of those who never entered purgatory to be purged when he comes back, how do they get accepted?



Is this the reason why Pope Benedict the 15th granted an indulgence for 500 hundred days if people were found wearing the brown scapular. Pope John the 22nd sold salvation for money. The bigger the crime the more one paid. This meant the more money one had the more they could sin and be assured to pay their way out. This is nothing less than bribing God.


Does ones rituals of money become more powerful and effective then Jesus Christ who is God. This means everything he did and was said about his blood is for nothing. In Mk.2:7the Pharisees said who can forgive sins but God." They were right. No matter how much prayer or money is spent it can’t shorten anyone’s time in the afterlife .Deut. 26:13-14 speaking of tithes says "he has not given any of it to the dead". The bible says no such thing, the Apocrypha says different. So the decision comes down to who one will believe.


Catholics are taught that "it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins"


2nd Maccabees 7:43-46 Judas, the commander of the forces of Israel,"making a gathering...sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead,thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead). And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."


The Catholic Church used 2nd Maccabees for validation but they excluded 4th Esdras7:105 "Speaking of death declares no one shall ever pray for another on that day." they rejected this because it went against their own new doctrine.


The Bible is even clearer Ps 49:7-9, "None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him-- For the redemption of their souls is costly, and it shall cease forever--That he should continue to live eternally, and not see the Pit." There is no payment for sin except the blood of Gods Son on the cross this is what God the Father accepts, nothing less, nothing else.


Heaven is not a reward for doing good deeds but a gift to us because of what Christ did. To see it any other way is to miss the very reason Christ died. He purchased for us something we could never do on our own even if we live a million years and do good work sit still would not be enough.


Rom. 8:38-39, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth,nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Paul said of all believers in 2 Cor.5:8, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He makes it even clearer to be at home with the body is to be absent from the Lord."


Phil.1:21,23 says "It is far better… to die is gain (not pain) his desire to be with Christ is far better." (Christ is in heaven) .The thief on the cross went to paradise not to purgatory, where Jesus was, he was also. He didn’t have time to burn off a lot of sin of which he probably had plenty. He was accepted by grace just as we still are today.


There is only one way to be cleansed by Christ blood this what he came for he suffered in our place. The bible teaches that in Heb.1:3 after he purged our sins he sat down at the right hand of God Heb.10:11-12 A high priest never sat down unless his task was completed. Can our own prayers and money accomplish what he supposedly failed in. Is Christ’s death insufficient or sufficient? Heb.9:22, "without the shedding of blood their is no forgiveness of sins." There is no more sacrifice for sin . It was completed, almost 2,000 years ago. 1 Jn.1:7, "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The O.T. sacrifices were given over and over because they could never take away our sin. This is what the mass is claimed to do. One must continually repeat it because of its temporary affect. Christ sacrifice is permanent only he as a person can bring us to God not through a wafer or any other means. Col. 1:20having made peace through the blood of the cross."vs.22 In the body of (Jesus) his flesh through death to present yourselves holy and blameless and irreproachable in is sight." Because of what he did we are accepted. The father accepted the payment… now it’s up to you to do the same.
 
CATHOLICS need a bible lesson on JUSTIFICATION, since they have zero clue on what it is!

Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:24 - Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 2:16-17 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Read More...)

Romans 5:1-21 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Read More...)

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 5:9 - Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 4:25 - Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
 


According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1030, "All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven." NOWHERE IS THIS FOUND IN THE BIBLE*
OK. It's not in the damned Bible. So fucking what? What the hell do you think that proves?
 
CATHOLICS need a bible lesson on JUSTIFICATION, since they have zero clue on what it is!

Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:24 - Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 2:16-17 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Read More...)

Romans 5:1-21 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Read More...)

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 5:9 - Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 4:25 - Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Once again if you want to discuss Catholic Teaching post from a Catholic source the teaching because your antiCatholic copy and pastes are wrong.
 
You left out this from the Sermon on the Mount:


Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny. (Matthew 5:25-26).

Here he is clearly saying you will eventually get out, after you have paid every penny.
 
CATHOLICS need a bible lesson on JUSTIFICATION, since they have zero clue on what it is!

Titus 3:7 - That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:24 - Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 2:16-17 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Read More...)

Romans 5:1-21 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Read More...)

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 5:9 - Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 4:25 - Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
We know have 3 studies to show how wrong you are I recommend them

Roman Faith and Christian Faith: Pistis and Fides in the Early Roman Empire and Early Churches​

by Teresa Morgan

Alister McGrath’s extensive monograph on justification has long been viewed as one of the magisterial works on the topic.
He has completely reversed himself after 4 edtions
Chrysostom’s account affirms the declaration or manifestation (endeixeis) of God’s own righteousness with its actualisation in the transformation of the nature of humanity.

McGrath, Iustitia Dei, 37.

and finally the KILLER
,the Destroyer

Paul's "Works of the Law" in the Perspective of Second-Century Reception​

by Matthew J. Thomas
Foreword by Alister E. McGrath

 
Once again if you want to discuss Catholic Teaching post from a Catholic source the teaching because your antiCatholic copy and pastes are wrong.
LAST TIME I CHECKED THOSE ARE KING JAMES BIBLE VERSES. I can compare the rcc catechiam next to the bible like i have already- side by side comparison- you can clearly see the rcc teaching is not at all biblical.

A Summary Chart of the differences between Biblical Truth and Catholicism


by Richard Bennett


“Thy Word is Truth”
John 17:17





Biblical Truth
The Light of God’s Word

Topic
New Catechism
Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994)
The Bible only is the Standard for Truth

“....the scripture cannot be broken.” John. 10:35
“Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.” John. 17:17
“That ye might learn in us not to think...above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” 1 Corinthians 4:6
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs. 30:6
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered...” Mark. 7:13​

The Basis
of

Truth
Truth is based on Scripture, Tradition, and the Pope
Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other.” Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) Para 80
And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. CCC Para 81
“As a result the [Roman Catholic] Church...does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” CCC Para 82
The Supreme Pontiff, in virtue of his office, possesses infallible teaching authority when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful...he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held as such.” CCC Para 891​
Salvation is by Grace Alone Through Faith


Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:24
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8, 9
“For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.” Rom 5:17
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” Titus 3:5-6
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 2:21​
Salvation
by Grace
Alone
For Salvation Grace becomes merely a help and is given through the sacraments of the Church

“Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.” CCC Para2021
The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. ’Sacramental grace’ is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. CCC Para1129
One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.” CCC Para 1493​
Faith is the Gift of God and comes by the Word of God
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:31
“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.” Philippians 1:29
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17​
Faith is God-given

and sustained
Faith comes through the Mother Church

It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith.” CCC Para 168
“Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother:...” Para 169
Believing” is an ecclesial act. The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. ‘No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother’” CCC Para 181​
Christ’s Sacrifice was His alone and once offered


“...Jesus said, ‘It is finished:...’” John. 19:30
“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God” Hebrews 10:12
“...when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” Hebrews. 1:3​
Christ’s Atonement
Sufficient
Finished
Sacrifice
Christ’s Sacrifice continues, and is also of the Church


In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” CCC Para 1367
“The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the [Roman Catholic] Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire.” CCC Para 1368​

God is the Only All Holy One and the Only Source of Holiness

Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah. 6:3
“Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou only art Holy: for all nations shall come and worship before Thee...” Revelation. 15: 4
There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.” 1 Samuel.2:2
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8​
God, the Only
All Holy
One
Mary is also the All-Holy One and the Source of Holiness

“By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One.” CCC Para 2677
“From the [Roman Catholic] Church he learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary....” CCC Para 2030
The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God ‘the All-Holy’ (Panagia), and celebrate her as ‘free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature’” CCC Para 493​
In Salvation the Lord Jesus Christ Alone Mediates
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.” 1Timothy. 2:5
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [Jesus Christ] under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12​

One
Mediator
In Salvation “Mary” Also Mediates

“Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the [Roman Catholic] Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.” CCC Para 969​
God Hates Idolatry

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.” Exodus. 20:4-5

“And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even Ten Commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake...Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure....” Dt. 4:13, 15-16
“Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen” 1 John. 5:21​

Idolatry
The Roman Catholic Church Rationalizes Idolatry

“The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype, and whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.” CCC Para 2132
“Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified...the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new ‘economy’ of images.” CCC Para 2131
This Pagan Practice is Forbidden in the Bible

“There shall not be found among you any one... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer, [one who calls up the dead].” Deut. 18:10-11

“And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits [divination; contacting the dead], and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I Am the Lord your God.” Leviticus. 20:6-7​
Communion
with the
Dead
This Practice is Recommended by Rome

Communion with the dead. In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead...Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping “them, bur also of making their intercession for us effective.” CCC Para 958
“The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer...Their intercession is their most exalted service...We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.” CCC Para 2683​
Compiled by Richard Bennett, Converted Catholic Priest, now Evangelist. P.O. Box 192 Del Valle, TX 78617​
Contact

Information
More Biblical contrasts: www.bereanbeacon.org
 
LAST TIME I CHECKED THOSE ARE KING JAMES BIBLE VERSES. I can compare the rcc catechiam next to the bible like i have already- side by side comparison- you can clearly see the rcc teaching is not at all biblical.

A Summary Chart of the differences between Biblical Truth and Catholicism


by Richard Bennett


“Thy Word is Truth”
John 17:17





Biblical Truth
The Light of God’s Word

Topic
New Catechism
Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994)
The Bible only is the Standard for Truth

“....the scripture cannot be broken.” John. 10:35
“Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.” John. 17:17
“That ye might learn in us not to think...above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” 1 Corinthians 4:6
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs. 30:6
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered...” Mark. 7:13​
The Basis
of

Truth
Truth is based on Scripture, Tradition, and the Pope
Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other.” Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) Para 80
And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. CCC Para 81
“As a result the [Roman Catholic] Church...does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” CCC Para 82
The Supreme Pontiff, in virtue of his office, possesses infallible teaching authority when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful...he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held as such.” CCC Para 891​
Salvation is by Grace Alone Through Faith


Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:24
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8, 9
“For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.” Rom 5:17
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” Titus 3:5-6
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 2:21​
Salvation
by Grace
Alone
For Salvation Grace becomes merely a help and is given through the sacraments of the Church

“Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.” CCC Para2021
The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. ’Sacramental grace’ is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. CCC Para1129
One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.” CCC Para 1493​
Faith is the Gift of God and comes by the Word of God
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:31
“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.” Philippians 1:29
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17​
Faith is God-given

and sustained
Faith comes through the Mother Church


It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith.” CCC Para 168
“Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother:...” Para 169
Believing” is an ecclesial act. The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. ‘No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother’” CCC Para 181​
Christ’s Sacrifice was His alone and once offered


“...Jesus said, ‘It is finished:...’” John. 19:30
“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God” Hebrews 10:12
“...when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” Hebrews. 1:3​
Christ’s Atonement
Sufficient
Finished
Sacrifice
Christ’s Sacrifice continues, and is also of the Church


In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” CCC Para 1367
“The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the [Roman Catholic] Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire.” CCC Para 1368​


God is the Only All Holy One and the Only Source of Holiness

Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah. 6:3
“Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou only art Holy: for all nations shall come and worship before Thee...” Revelation. 15: 4
There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.” 1 Samuel.2:2
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8​
God, the Only
All Holy
One
Mary is also the All-Holy One and the Source of Holiness

“By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One.” CCC Para 2677
“From the [Roman Catholic] Church he learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary....” CCC Para 2030
The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God ‘the All-Holy’ (Panagia), and celebrate her as ‘free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature’” CCC Para 493​
In Salvation the Lord Jesus Christ Alone Mediates
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.” 1Timothy. 2:5
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [Jesus Christ] under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12​
One
Mediator
In Salvation “Mary” Also Mediates
“Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the [Roman Catholic] Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.” CCC Para 969​
God Hates Idolatry

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.” Exodus. 20:4-5

“And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even Ten Commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake...Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure....” Dt. 4:13, 15-16
“Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen” 1 John. 5:21​
Idolatry
The Roman Catholic Church Rationalizes Idolatry

“The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype, and whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.” CCC Para 2132
“Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified...the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new ‘economy’ of images.” CCC Para 2131
This Pagan Practice is Forbidden in the Bible

“There shall not be found among you any one... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer, [one who calls up the dead].” Deut. 18:10-11

“And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits [divination; contacting the dead], and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I Am the Lord your God.” Leviticus. 20:6-7​
Communion
with the
Dead
This Practice is Recommended by Rome

Communion with the dead. In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead...Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping “them, bur also of making their intercession for us effective.” CCC Para 958
“The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer...Their intercession is their most exalted service...We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.” CCC Para 2683​
Compiled by Richard Bennett, Converted Catholic Priest, now Evangelist. P.O. Box 192 Del Valle, TX 78617​
Contact

Information
More Biblical contrasts: www.bereanbeacon.org

Your anti-Catholic copy and paste attempted to discuss Catholic teaching, so you know my comment wasn't about the biblical quotes used.
Your response leads me to believe you don't understand the subject enough to use your own words to not only explain correct Catholic teaching but also articulate your objects, or in the very least your understand of the objects others have.
 
Your anti-Catholic copy and paste attempted to discuss Catholic teaching, so you know my comment wasn't about the biblical quotes used.
Your response leads me to believe you don't understand the subject enough to use your own words to not only explain correct Catholic teaching but also articulate your objects, or in the very least your understand of the objects others have.
can you read? its straight from the rcc catechism compared to the bible- unless youre playing dumb, you can clearly see the difference in the truth (bible) vs the lie (catechism).
 
Your anti-Catholic copy and paste attempted to discuss Catholic teaching, so you know my comment wasn't about the biblical quotes used.
Your response leads me to believe you don't understand the subject enough to use your own words to not only explain correct Catholic teaching but also articulate your objects, or in the very least your understand of the objects others have.
quoting the rcc catechism itself is anti catholic? lol
 
Post the Catholic teaching from a Catholic source and you'll find EVERY teaching is supported by the bible.
Biblical Truth
The Light of God’s Word

Topic
New Catechism
Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994)
The Bible only is the Standard for Truth

“....the scripture cannot be broken.” John. 10:35
“Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.” John. 17:17
“That ye might learn in us not to think...above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” 1 Corinthians 4:6
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs. 30:6
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered...” Mark. 7:13​

The Basis
of

Truth
Truth is based on Scripture, Tradition, and the Pope
Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other.” Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) Para 80
And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. CCC Para 81
“As a result the [Roman Catholic] Church...does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” CCC Para 82
The Supreme Pontiff, in virtue of his office, possesses infallible teaching authority when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful...he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held as such.” CCC Para 891​
Salvation is by Grace Alone Through Faith


Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:24
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8, 9
“For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.” Rom 5:17
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” Titus 3:5-6
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 2:21​
Salvation
by Grace
Alone
For Salvation Grace becomes merely a help and is given through the sacraments of the Church

“Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.” CCC Para2021
The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. ’Sacramental grace’ is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. CCC Para1129
One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.” CCC Para 1493​
Faith is the Gift of God and comes by the Word of God
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:31
“For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.” Philippians 1:29
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17​
Faith is God-given

and sustained
Faith comes through the Mother Church

It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith.” CCC Para 168
“Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother:...” Para 169
Believing” is an ecclesial act. The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. ‘No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother’” CCC Para 181​
Christ’s Sacrifice was His alone and once offered


“...Jesus said, ‘It is finished:...’” John. 19:30
“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God” Hebrews 10:12
“...when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” Hebrews. 1:3​
Christ’s Atonement
Sufficient
Finished
Sacrifice
Christ’s Sacrifice continues, and is also of the Church


In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” CCC Para 1367
“The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the [Roman Catholic] Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire.” CCC Para 1368​

God is the Only All Holy One and the Only Source of Holiness

Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah. 6:3
“Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou only art Holy: for all nations shall come and worship before Thee...” Revelation. 15: 4
There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.” 1 Samuel.2:2
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8​
God, the Only
All Holy
One
Mary is also the All-Holy One and the Source of Holiness

“By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One.” CCC Para 2677
“From the [Roman Catholic] Church he learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary....” CCC Para 2030
The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God ‘the All-Holy’ (Panagia), and celebrate her as ‘free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature’” CCC Para 493​
In Salvation the Lord Jesus Christ Alone Mediates
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.” 1Timothy. 2:5
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [Jesus Christ] under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12​

One
Mediator
In Salvation “Mary” Also Mediates

“Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the [Roman Catholic] Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.” CCC Para 969​
God Hates Idolatry

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.” Exodus. 20:4-5

“And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even Ten Commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake...Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure....” Dt. 4:13, 15-16
“Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen” 1 John. 5:21​

Idolatry
The Roman Catholic Church Rationalizes Idolatry

“The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype, and whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.” CCC Para 2132
“Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified...the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new ‘economy’ of images.” CCC Para 2131
This Pagan Practice is Forbidden in the Bible

“There shall not be found among you any one... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer, [one who calls up the dead].” Deut. 18:10-11

“And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits [divination; contacting the dead], and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I Am the Lord your God.” Leviticus. 20:6-7​
Communion
with the
Dead
This Practice is Recommended by Rome

Communion with the dead. In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead...Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping “them, bur also of making their intercession for us effective.” CCC Para 958
“The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer...Their intercession is their most exalted service...We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.” CCC Para 2683​
 
(1) If people believe in purgatory, that's great!

(2) It may give them the comfort to get through this short nightmare called "life."
 
Why are you so angry? Your passion for your faith is good but don't let your passion succumb to the one who creates discord.

The Catholic Church, like mankind, is not perfect. It's easy to point the finger at an establishment representing God on Earth - and many times, with good reason. The Church, without question, has the burden and carries the cross of teaching God's ways, through the teachings of Jesus Christ. When they fail - and they have numerous times throughout history - they will suffer the consequences.

Don't let the mistakes of the Church cloud your reason and judgement against the people, the lay people (who sacrifice their lives for Jesus) within the Roman Catholic Church.

I'll ask you this - and pay very close attention to my words...

Mary at a younger age, decided she would become a nun and give her entire life to God. She vowed a life of poverty and spent her entire life helping people.

John, lived a party life but eventually found Jesus. From that point forward, he proclaimed the saving grace of Jesus to everyone he knew.

Their lives took different paths but both are Children of God.

This passage explains it;

Luke 15:​

The Parable of the Lost Son​

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”





Mary, in this case can be considered the older son. John can be considered the younger son. God accepts and loves both.


When you disparage the Roman Catholic Church for your own, selfish reasons you are like the lost son - who was dead but came back to life.
But after he came back to life and was accepted by his Father - decided that he was better than his older sister, Mary because Mary did not share the same passion and zeal as he did - and yet, she was the one who never left and always obeyed their Father.

"Do not judge or you too will be judged by the same measure you judge others." (Matthew 7).
 
Purgatory a spiritual bermuda triangle​


From the 2nd Vatican Council, p. 63, "The truth has been divinely revealed that sins are followed by punishments. God’s holiness and justice inflict them. Sins must be expiated. This may be done on this earth through the sorrows,miseries and trials of this life and, above all, through death. Otherwise the expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments or purifying punishments."


According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1030, "All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven." NOWHERE IS THIS FOUND IN THE BIBLE*


In Catholicism there awaits for those who die in a state of grace a time period where they must be purified by suffering for unrepentant venial sins, to satisfy the demands of divine justice. This is a temporary punishment to convert and prepare them making them worthy so they can enter heavens glory.


Catholics have some persuasive and convincing arguments by for purgatory as they prove it by reason. 1 Cor. 3:12-15 teaches a purification by fire for believers after death.Heb.12:14, "holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord, "which means we must be made absolutely pure to enter heaven. "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God" (Mt 5:9). All these encompass works, since no one is perfect in this life , we to be perfected in a intermediate state so we can enter heaven? What about such Scriptures? If this is a teaching that is so clear how could millions have missed it for almost two thousand years?


1 Cor. 3:10-15, "According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid,which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


In I Corinthians 3 it is the believer's works, not the believer himself,that will be tested by fire. Paul is not speaking of literal fire any more than he is of literal wood and gold. He is speaking metaphorically, calling some works wood, hay,stubble (which fire burns combustible) and others gold, silver and precious stones (which fire purifies). There is nothing here (or anywhere else in Scripture) to support Catholicism's view that flames in a spiritual zone purge the individual expiating the sins that were not cleansed while they were alive taking the sacraments ( Eucharist. ) What ever is not built on the true foundation will be burnt. It says nothing of punishments but of the quality of ones works related to their rewards. (this is called the Bema Seat)



Paul is teaching on the quality of works one has done for Christ and what if any rewards will be received. If one reads this text correctly we find that ones works can all be burned up and they can still be saved and enter heaven. Why? Because he himself was aon the sure foundation. This destroys the preconceived notion that one must have a certain amount of good deeds for salvation. It also proves justification by faith alone and not by works also. The Day is a reference to the great day of the Lord when he comes again and all the works of men will be judged to see if they are acceptable to God, will they go into eternity or will they vanish. Its a test of whether the work was done on the right foundation by the H.Spirits motivation to be eternal.


Paul says, "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done ( works) in his body, according to that he bath done, whetherit be good or bad." In Revelation 22:12, Christ says, "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be." Our entrance into heaven is not the question, but the reward the Christian will receive in heaven. There are degrees of heavenly rewards. Once we receive the crowns we will cast them to his feet because the Lord who redeemed us was the cause of all we did.(Rev 4:10).


Paul likens the Christian life to running a race for a prize: "They (athletes) do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible [crown]" (I Cor. 9:25). Paul called his converts his "crown of rejoicing" (I Thes. 2:19; Phil 4:1). There are other crowns to be earned as well: "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness" (2 Tim 4:8); "ye shall receive a crown of glory" (IPt 5:4); "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give a crown of life" (Rev.2:10). It is possible to cruise in ones Christian life and lose out, not in salvation, but a crown we had previously won: "hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown" (Rev 3:11). Salvation is by grace alone, but the reward we receive is based upon our works, which will be tested and their quality revealed at the Judgment Seat of Christ.2 Jn.8 John the apostle warns of deception which can lead to loss of a full reward--of grace not of debt. The reward meant is that of their "work (of faith) and labor of love."


What of Col.1:24, "I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my fleshwhat is lacking in the afflictions of Christ for the sake of his body the church."This is used to show Paul suffered for his salvation. But this is not showing that Paul suffered for his salvation. He is speaking of suffering for the sake of righteousness in his course to fulfill his ministry. The sufferings of Christians should never be confused with the redemptive suffering of Christ for our sins. Remember when Paul was called in Acts 9:15 the Lord said "I will show him how many things he must suffer for my names sake." Our suffering cannot add one benefit to Christ's perfect work of redemption.Trials are to test our faith not to purge sin, only the blood of Jesus can do that. There is no biblical connection between our suffering now or later in purgatory to lose ours ins. (Jm.1:3, Rom.5:3-5 1 Pt.3) it is there to develop faith which is trust in God. Were saved by faith and we mature by faith.


What of Matthew 5:8 and Hebrews 12:14, the Scripture is clear that we cannot attain to a personal holiness or purity that would qualifies us to enter heaven. Heb. 12:14 actually says to pursue peace with all people and holiness. This is referring to ones relationship to others not a personal holiness to have salvation, but for obedience. If we are to have holiness in the way Catholicism claims than we must have peace with all people. Eph.1:1-14 tells us we are holy and blameless before him because of Christ vs.4not because of our achieving a holiness by our own work through his grace. suffering cannot purge us of sin not here now or in some spiritual zone of purgatory later. It is through faith in the blood of Christ that washes our sins away: "when he (Christ) had by purged our sins" (Heb 1:3) "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son purges us from all sin." (I Jn 1:7) Heb. 9:22, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no remission (purging of sin)." Rev. 7:14, "they ... washed (purged) their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Christ)."


Peter declared, "For Christ also bath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God (not to purgatory)" (I Pt 3:18). Catholicism challenges the biblical teachings saying that though Christ endured the eternal punishment for sin, Christ's death, couldn't permanently purify us because personally suffering for our sins is required to become pure enough to enter heaven. Not only does the doctrine of purgatory contradict the Bible, but there is an obvious internal contradiction within the church’s dogma. They teach that after death, people hold masses, rosaries are said, the good deeds and suffering of the living on ones behalf being said for them. They can reduce or even eliminate purgatorial suffering entirely so you don't have to personally suffer after all ! Incredible as it seems, what the redemptive death of Christ on the cross couldn't accomplish, the repetition of the mass,prayers, rosaries, penance, good works can. One can only hope they have left friends and family behind to do theses things on their behalf while they continue to suffer waiting to be purged by their actions from the living. Nowhere in the O.T. or through N.T. give any examples where believers pray for the dead.


2 Pt. 2:9, "The unrighteous are kept under punishment unto the day of judgment." There are only two places of destination, If one is not righteous enough to go to heaven they go to Hell. Obviously its not a personal righteousness but the righteousness of Christ we are clothed in. 2 Cor. 5:21 "we have the righteousness of Christ by faith." Rom.5:19, "For by one mans disobedience all were made sinners so by one mans obedience all will be made righteous." This does no excuse someone who lives unrighteously to do so. But this doctrine can promote that since they can depend on others later to fund their bail.


For what its worth the early Church did not teach such a doctrine Athenagoras,177 AD. " We are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated." (Plea for the Christians 31).


The Bible does not teach perfect holiness in the body or in a intermediate state. We don’t have to be perfect to go to heaven because Satan and his angels appear before God in heaven and they have no purity in works or nature to be allowed before God. If the trials of fire didn't perfect you while you lived in your body what makes you think fire can burn away impurities afterward?


Alexander Hislop in the book the two Babylon’s which he traces the ancient systems of paganism says. In every system therefore except that of the Bible the doctrine of purgatory after death and prayers for the dead has always been found to occupy a prominent place. Pagan religions always had fire to purge ones sins. It was the earthly representative of the Sun God that would bring (Lev.18:21, Jer. 32:25) perfection by burning (passing through the fire).


We walk by faith not by sight. Our confidence is knowing when we leave this earth we are in his presence. Paul considered himself the chief of sinners. If anyone needed to be purged from sin he would. Yet he never says to pray for him, even when he wrote to Timothy before he died, he never mentions purgatory for himself or for anyone else. Or Stephen who was not an apostle in Acts 7:55-60 was stoned to death, before he died his last words were"Jesus receive my Spirit." And Jesus stood up in heaven to receive the first martyr. The Catholic church has a way out of at least some of these passages by saying all martyrs go to heaven. Like Islam the only sure way to heaven is to die (for Jesus). The Biblical definition of salvation means you are forgiven and saved from the penalty of sin.Jn.8:24 Jesus said, "unless you believe I Am you will die in your sins." Jesus solution, believe he is the I Am and when you die you will not be in sin. No sin, no suffering and no purgatory. Jn.5:24, "Whoever believes in him will not come into judgment but has passed from death to life." Jn.8:58, "whoever keeps my word shall never taste death." Death is the sting of sin.


To a Catholic eternal life is a merited reward that he has gained by cooperating with God by his works. While we are to do this, the motivation is very different, one is for salvation the other is because one has it already. Rom.8:1, "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Purgatory is condemnation . As believers we are judged for our conduct and work in relation to rewards not to our destination. Because salvation is a gift that has already been settled. For a Catholic the only difference between ones experience in hell and purgatory is the length of time. What of the O.T. saints that were in Hades for thousands of years. If they were suffering in purgatory how did they have their sins purged. Their were no masses said. No one was praying for them. How does someone know how long they are to pray for them and when to stop. Who knows when enough money has been given to the priest. What if someone has been released and money is still given. If purgatory is for someone to purged their sins and make one perfect for heaven by suffering. And this prompts people to pray rosaries, have masses and indulgences to cleanse them. Then they don’t really need to suffer to be purged you can have others do the alternatives. Yet we are told you are not able to purge your sins without suffering, so which is it. What happens to all the people that are supposedly in this mythical place when Jesus comes and their purging is not complete. And what of those who never entered purgatory to be purged when he comes back, how do they get accepted?


Is this the reason why Pope Benedict the 15th granted an indulgence for 500 hundred days if people were found wearing the brown scapular. Pope John the 22nd sold salvation for money. The bigger the crime the more one paid. This meant the more money one had the more they could sin and be assured to pay their way out. This is nothing less than bribing God.


Does ones rituals of money become more powerful and effective then Jesus Christ who is God. This means everything he did and was said about his blood is for nothing. In Mk.2:7the Pharisees said who can forgive sins but God." They were right. No matter how much prayer or money is spent it can’t shorten anyone’s time in the afterlife .Deut. 26:13-14 speaking of tithes says "he has not given any of it to the dead". The bible says no such thing, the Apocrypha says different. So the decision comes down to who one will believe.


Catholics are taught that "it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins"


2nd Maccabees 7:43-46 Judas, the commander of the forces of Israel,"making a gathering...sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead,thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead). And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."


The Catholic Church used 2nd Maccabees for validation but they excluded 4th Esdras7:105 "Speaking of death declares no one shall ever pray for another on that day." they rejected this because it went against their own new doctrine.


The Bible is even clearer Ps 49:7-9, "None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him-- For the redemption of their souls is costly, and it shall cease forever--That he should continue to live eternally, and not see the Pit." There is no payment for sin except the blood of Gods Son on the cross this is what God the Father accepts, nothing less, nothing else.


Heaven is not a reward for doing good deeds but a gift to us because of what Christ did. To see it any other way is to miss the very reason Christ died. He purchased for us something we could never do on our own even if we live a million years and do good work sit still would not be enough.


Rom. 8:38-39, "For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth,nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Paul said of all believers in 2 Cor.5:8, "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He makes it even clearer to be at home with the body is to be absent from the Lord."


Phil.1:21,23 says "It is far better… to die is gain (not pain) his desire to be with Christ is far better." (Christ is in heaven) .The thief on the cross went to paradise not to purgatory, where Jesus was, he was also. He didn’t have time to burn off a lot of sin of which he probably had plenty. He was accepted by grace just as we still are today.


There is only one way to be cleansed by Christ blood this what he came for he suffered in our place. The bible teaches that in Heb.1:3 after he purged our sins he sat down at the right hand of God Heb.10:11-12 A high priest never sat down unless his task was completed. Can our own prayers and money accomplish what he supposedly failed in. Is Christ’s death insufficient or sufficient? Heb.9:22, "without the shedding of blood their is no forgiveness of sins." There is no more sacrifice for sin . It was completed, almost 2,000 years ago. 1 Jn.1:7, "The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." The O.T. sacrifices were given over and over because they could never take away our sin. This is what the mass is claimed to do. One must continually repeat it because of its temporary affect. Christ sacrifice is permanent only he as a person can bring us to God not through a wafer or any other means. Col. 1:20having made peace through the blood of the cross."vs.22 In the body of (Jesus) his flesh through death to present yourselves holy and blameless and irreproachable in is sight." Because of what he did we are accepted. The father accepted the payment… now it’s up to you to do the same.
Purgatory, in addition being biblical is also perfectly logical as I explained in my thread on the topic. Zone1 - Purgatory makes perfect sense. Only the perfect can enter Heaven, and very few are purified when they die.
 

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