Arming the debt bomb and rolling the dice ... Trump recession portends runaway debt and ruin

[Gdjjr]

No, sorry. That’s not what trickle down means. You don’t get to redefine these terms.

LOL- I'm not redefining- you can, however, say anything you want. But the facts won't change. The "top" is the fed gov't and it spends "down". That is trickle down. Using the term as a pejorative accomplishes nothing. Words mean things.

 

[colfax_m]

No, sorry. That’s not what trickle down means. You don’t get to redefine these terms.

LOL- I'm not redefining- you can, however, say anything you want. But the facts won't change. The "top" is the fed gov't and it spends "down". That is trickle down. Using the term as a pejorative accomplishes nothing. Words mean things.

No, that’s not what trickle down means. The “top” is high income earners who are supposed to invest to employ the lower income earners which is the trickle.

Government is not the “top”.

 

[gipper]

I propose let’s stop enriching the rich and instead helping the poor and working class. Novel idea no?

I don't disagree with your premise, but, how do you propose implementing that?

Western Europe has been doing it for decades. Can’t be too difficult.

 

[Gdjjr]

That is a good question. While the payroll tax sounds good, does it really move the meter much?

If the cut is 2 percentage points like it was last time they did this, that comes about to about 80 bucks a paycheck for someone making 100,000. That is about 24 per check (assuming bi-weekly pay) for someone making 30,000 a year.

How much does that help? I cannot pretend to know the answer to that.

24 bucks in your pocket or the fed gov't's pocket helps who? 24 bucks to someone making 30k a year is nearly a tank full of gas- at the walmart here it's 20 gallons of walmart brand milk- or, they can spend it on the lottery which helps state designated charities, voluntarily-

 

[Gdjjr]

Western Europe has been doing it for decades. Can’t be too difficult.

We're not western europe- FYI.

 

[Gdjjr]

Government is not the “top”.

Compare revenue- who's at the top?

 

[gipper]

Western Europe has been doing it for decades. Can’t be too difficult.

We're not western europe- FYI.

That’s right. We aren’t but we can learn from them.

 

[colfax_m]

Government is not the “top”.

Compare revenue- who's at the top?

That’s not what it’s referring to. It’s referring to the top of the socioeconomic scale of individual and corporate earners.

 

[Brain357]

Western Europe has been doing it for decades. Can’t be too difficult.

We're not western europe- FYI.

Yes corporations are more important than people here.

 

[Gdjjr]

That’s right. We aren’t but we can learn from them.

You implied to emulate them- yet, they emulate us and do a better job than we do- we are emulating History- ALL empires fall.
Western Europe proves it.

 

[imawhosure]

OK, then I will ask you an honest question, to which I expect an honest answer----------------->Do you think the US economy would have entered recession this year without the Corona virus, and the attack on the US fracking industry because of the Corona virus making it feasible?

I think we have been teetering on the edge of a recession for a while, which is to be expected with the length of the current expansion. If it were not the coronavirus it would have been something else. Would it have come before Nov...who knows as we never really know what is going to be the tipping point.

I will not blame Trump for the coming recession nor do I really blame him for trying his best to stall it as long as possible, anyone would do the same. I do worry what happens when it comes since pretty much every trick we have to get out of one has been used to slow its coming.

The thing I hear the most about getting us out is massive infrastructure spending, which means huge amounts added to the debt. In the last recession the deficit almost tripled in a single year. Imagine if that happens when the deficit is already 1.3 trillion per year.

Good post Gator!

You know, how many Americans from both sides of the aisle are unaware how precarious our situation really is, even in good times?

Imagine if you will, China invading Taiwan! We respond, and Americans die even though we never really attack.

Why?

Because China controls a lot of our drugs! How many people knew that? And now that they found out, they are screaming like hell.

I believe you and I BOTH agree, our politicians SUCK! Not only did they not tell us, they purposely avoided it! When it became common knowledge because of Chinas' crowing, Americans are PISSED. Then of course, our phony politicians start talking about fixing it; maybe. Giving away our factories is bad, really bad. But giving away our ability to keep us healthy to a totalitarian regime is TREASON; especially while not even letting the American people know.

These people need to be TERM LIMITED, period!

It is worse for us that the BEST and brightest (if they really are) work for themselves, then if 2nd tier people are installed, and work for us as they know no matter what, they only have so much time.

After this election in November, that is going to be my calling. I know I won't succeed, but at least I will try.

 

[Gdjjr]

Yes corporations are more important than people here.

Only because politicians have no morals- corporations play by the rules written- that the rules favor certain tax breaks is apparent and when one is favored another isn't. That isn't the role originally intended for gov't- and BOTH Party (tops) subscribe to it- borrow to spend and EVERY POTUS will increase the debt.
But, hey- lets keep doing the same over and over and expect different results- yeah, that makes sense.

 

[joaquinmiller]

The Saudis price war with the russians is not an attack on the U.S. frackers..and they're just really trying to bring them back to the table



Last time prices got to low to keep fraking wells open they simply turned em off and closed em down ..only to open em up again

It's much cheaper to frack today anyway than it was four of five years ago

I read a column the other day that claimed the Russians have a cost to produce oil at $22 a barrel, while the Saudis cost is $80. If true, we know who wins a price war.

That's not correct. Saudi Arabia has extremely-low production costs -- likely less than $3/bbl. No one wins a price war with the Saudis.

 

[gipper]

That’s right. We aren’t but we can learn from them.

You implied to emulate them- yet, they emulate us and do a better job than we do- we are emulating History- ALL empires fall.
Western Europe proves it.

Yeah there is no chance our corrupt government is going to change. So, we are talking pie in the sky shit here.

However its not rocket science. Government helping the poor and working class isn’t difficult.

 

[Brain357]

Yes corporations are more important than people here.

Only because politicians have no morals- corporations play by the rules written- that the rules favor certain tax breaks is apparent and when one is favored another isn't. That isn't the role originally intended for gov't- and BOTH Party (tops) subscribe to it- borrow to spend and EVERY POTUS will increase the debt.
But, hey- lets keep doing the same over and over and expect different results- yeah, that makes sense.

Yes we have no campaign finance rules so our politicians are easily bought: special thanks to right wing citizens united.

 

[gipper]

The Saudis price war with the russians is not an attack on the U.S. frackers..and they're just really trying to bring them back to the table



Last time prices got to low to keep fraking wells open they simply turned em off and closed em down ..only to open em up again

It's much cheaper to frack today anyway than it was four of five years ago

I read a column the other day that claimed the Russians have a cost to produce oil at $22 a barrel, while the Saudis cost is $80. If true, we know who wins a price war.

That's not correct. Saudi Arabia has extremely-low production costs -- likely less than $3/bbl. No one wins a price war with the Saudis.

I don’t think you’re correct. This guy disagrees completely.


Russia Just Told the World, “No.”
By Thomas Luongo

Gold Goats 'n Guns

March 9, 2020

That’s where the Russians’ power comes from. Russia is one of the lowest cost producers in the world. Even after paying their taxes to the government their costs are far lower, close to $20 per barrel break-even point, than anyone else in the world when one factors in external costs.

When you don’t owe anyone anything you are free to tell them, “No.”

Sure, the Saudis produce at similar cash costs to the Russians but once you factor in its budgetary needs, the numbers aren’t even close as they need something closer to $85 per barrel.

They can’t tell their people, “No,” you have to do without. Because the populace will revolt.

Russia can ride out, if not thrive, in this low price regime because :

1. the ruble floats to absorb price shocks in dollars.
2. A majority of their oil is now sold in non-dollar currencies – rubles, yuan, euros, etc. – to lessen their exposure to capital outflows
3. the major oil firms have little dollar-denominated debt
4. low extraction costs.
5. its primary governmental budget ebbs and flows with oil prices.

All of this adds up to Russia holding the whip hand over the global market for oil.

The ability to say, “No.”
Russia Just Told the World, ‘No’ - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

 

[joaquinmiller]

The Saudis price war with the russians is not an attack on the U.S. frackers..and they're just really trying to bring them back to the table



Last time prices got to low to keep fraking wells open they simply turned em off and closed em down ..only to open em up again

It's much cheaper to frack today anyway than it was four of five years ago

I read a column the other day that claimed the Russians have a cost to produce oil at $22 a barrel, while the Saudis cost is $80. If true, we know who wins a price war.

That's not correct. Saudi Arabia has extremely-low production costs -- likely less than $3/bbl. No one wins a price war with the Saudis.

I don’t think you’re correct. This guy disagrees completely.


Russia Just Told the World, “No.”
By Thomas Luongo

Gold Goats 'n Guns

March 9, 2020

That’s where the Russians’ power comes from. Russia is one of the lowest cost producers in the world. Even after paying their taxes to the government their costs are far lower, close to $20 per barrel break-even point, than anyone else in the world when one factors in external costs.

When you don’t owe anyone anything you are free to tell them, “No.”

Sure, the Saudis produce at similar cash costs to the Russians but once you factor in its budgetary needs, the numbers aren’t even close as they need something closer to $85 per barrel.

They can’t tell their people, “No,” you have to do without. Because the populace will revolt.

Russia can ride out, if not thrive, in this low price regime because :

1. the ruble floats to absorb price shocks in dollars.
2. A majority of their oil is now sold in non-dollar currencies – rubles, yuan, euros, etc. – to lessen their exposure to capital outflows
3. the major oil firms have little dollar-denominated debt
4. low extraction costs.
5. its primary governmental budget ebbs and flows with oil prices.

All of this adds up to Russia holding the whip hand over the global market for oil.

The ability to say, “No.”
Russia Just Told the World, ‘No’ - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

That guy knows jackshit. Don't rely on him for advice.

Aramco’s Oil Production Costs Least in the World at $2.8 Per Barrel

 

[JustAGuy1]

The Trump recession is here. It was hiding in plain sight before as burgeoning debt which is now going nuclear.

Trump's answer to the recession is to go nuclear on debt and slash payroll tax.

If Donald Trump slashes taxes further the debt growth will go to > 10 x GDP growth as the GDP slows to zero or goes negative.

Taxes will dive from loss of payroll taxes and from the decline in economic activity. The budget deficit could double to $2 Trillion.

This was always the danger of Trump's debt-fueled economy.

Trump's biography never progressed beyond chapter 11.

Donald Trump is sick and he has infected Uncle Sam.

You just don't understand the game son.

"
Debt Money

Take the inherently fraudulent characteristics of the goldsmith’s fractional money system, add in the greater fraud and force of pure fiat, top it off with a mechanism designed to generate inescapable debt, and presto: you’ve got the most sophisticated monetary-enslavement system ever devised by man. And, wouldn’t you know, you also have all the components that make up our current monetary system.


Unlike a normal fiat money system (where the ruling class simply creates its own worthless paper money, spends it into the economy, and demands that everyone accept it), our ruling class has devised something much more powerful. Rather than spend money into our economy, they loan money into our economy. This enables the Network to steal purchasing power from us twice: once when they create new money, and again as they collect interest on the entire money supply.


Worst of all, by creating money and putting it into circulation only when a loan is made, and then destroying that same money (removing it from circulation) when the loan is repaid, the Network has designed the perfect debt trap. Any meaningful attempt to escape this debt trap, by paying down debt, will trigger an automatic “correction mechanism” that guarantees failure. The chain of events is perfectly predictable: as the nation repays its banking debts (and refuses to take out new loans), the economy’s debt-based money supply will shrink. This will cause disruptions in the economy; initially the disruptions will be minor, but they will inevitably become intolerable if new money isn’t injected via new loans. (Imagine the consequences of a 10 percent reduction in the nation’s money supply…now imagine a 40 percent reduction, a 60 percent reduction, or an 80 percent reduction.)


Theoretically, if new loans are not issued to reverse the automatic “correction mechanism” that the Network has built into the system, and if all available funds continue to be applied toward extinguishing Network-created debt, then the debt-based money supply must eventually fall to zero.


Robert Hemphill was the credit manager of the Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta. In the foreword to a book by Irving Fisher, entitled 100% Money, Hemphill said this:

If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have…If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless situation is almost incredible—but there it is.3

Needless to say, the economic and political power that flows from this system is nothing short of obscene. Therefore, it’s easy to understand why the Network built this system like a prison. Playing by their rules, we cannot escape; we can never repay the debt that is owed. And just like the debt slaves of nineteenth-century India, this inescapable debt is binding on our children, and our children’s children, and so on…forever.


Of all the Network’s monetary powers, this particular power is the most destructive. In nation after nation, politicians who are happy to bury their citizens in debt are supported by the Network and placed into positions of power. Some of the politicians are well intentioned; others are not. In the end it really doesn’t matter. As politically motivated spending programs (from warfare to welfare) spiral out of control, it isn’t long before massive monthly loans are needed just to cover the day-to-day operating costs of government. The noose is then tightened further with a never-ending slate of new spending programs that are added year after year, decade after decade. Out of the crushing debt that ensues, and the subsequent need for an endless supply of new loans to keep the bankrupt system afloat, the Network secures its dominant position over everything and everyone that depends on its money.


In the meantime, the illiterate debtors of the world slave away with no idea that the money they “owe” was created out of thin air; it was never earned by the lender. They have no idea that the system itself was designed to create an ever-expanding black hole of debt, a system of financial servitude that is literally inescapable.

Those conspiring to bring us a “world government” ruled by an “intellectual elite and world bankers” are not playing games. They’ve worked hard to perfect and implement their strategy of economic conquest. They’ve proven their ability to seize control of nations large and small (even far-flung empires). They certainly haven’t come all this way for nothing.4"

https://www.joeplummer.com/tragedy-and-hope-101-5

Debt IS the game.

 

[Dana7360]

The Trump recession is here. It was hiding in plain sight before as burgeoning debt which is now going nuclear.

Trump's answer to the recession is to go nuclear on debt and slash payroll tax.

If Donald Trump slashes taxes further the debt growth will go to > 10 x GDP growth as the GDP slows to zero or goes negative.

Taxes will dive from loss of payroll taxes and from the decline in economic activity. The budget deficit could double to $2 Trillion.

This was always the danger of Trump's debt-fueled economy.

Trump's biography never progressed beyond chapter 11.

Donald Trump is sick and he has infected Uncle Sam.

It is not the government's job to pay people. It's the government's job to make sure that employers pay people a living wage.

What would help a lot is to raise the federal minimum wage to a living wage. It has been stuck at 7.25 since the bush boy was president. The republicans have been preventing increasing it for over a decade and they need to stop.

Cutting those taxes isn't going to do much of anything. What will do a lot of good is to raise the wages of Americans.

Another good idea is sick pay for at least the time that people aren't going to work because of the virus.

Cutting taxes and creating even more debt isn't the answer. In fact, it will make things worse.

However putting money in the hands of Americans isn't going to do much since people aren't spending and the supply of goods is slowing down.

What will help is getting that virus under control. Right now it's running rampant in America. Mostly because trump was incompetent and didn't make sure there was enough test kits. So infected people are walking around spreading it to everyone else. Until we identify all infected people and quarantine them, the virus will keep spreading and the problem will only get worse. Not better.

Conservative economics is the most irresponsible economics and always results in a harmed or destroyed economy.

 

[JustAGuy1]

The Trump recession is here. It was hiding in plain sight before as burgeoning debt which is now going nuclear.

Trump's answer to the recession is to go nuclear on debt and slash payroll tax.

If Donald Trump slashes taxes further the debt growth will go to > 10 x GDP growth as the GDP slows to zero or goes negative.

Taxes will dive from loss of payroll taxes and from the decline in economic activity. The budget deficit could double to $2 Trillion.

This was always the danger of Trump's debt-fueled economy.

Trump's biography never progressed beyond chapter 11.

Donald Trump is sick and he has infected Uncle Sam.

It is not the government's job to pay people. It's the government's job to make sure that employers pay people a living wage.

What would help a lot is to raise the federal minimum wage to a living wage. It has been stuck at 7.25 since the bush boy was president. The republicans have been preventing increasing it for over a decade and they need to stop.

Cutting those taxes isn't going to do much of anything. What will do a lot of good is to raise the wages of Americans.

Another good idea is sick pay for at least the time that people aren't going to work because of the virus.

Cutting taxes and creating even more debt isn't the answer. In fact, it will make things worse.

However putting money in the hands of Americans isn't going to do much since people aren't spending and the supply of goods is slowing down.

What will help is getting that virus under control. Right now it's running rampant in America. Mostly because trump was incompetent and didn't make sure there was enough test kits. So infected people are walking around spreading it to everyone else. Until we identify all infected people and quarantine them, the virus will keep spreading and the problem will only get worse. Not better.

Conservative economics is the most irresponsible economics and always results in a harmed or destroyed economy.

Quantify the "living wage".