Zone1 Another question to ponder.

[BULLDOG]

If I read it the selective way you do, I probably would to.

Got any complaints concerning the NT?

Why? Did we get a new god to replace the old one? An unchanging god is one of the major beliefs of Christianity, isn't it?

 

[BULLDOG]

Is life suffering for you?

Like all people, a certain amount of suffering is just a part of life. One of the first things religion taught me was our years on earth were just an insignificant blink of an eye compared to an eternity of suffering in a fire.

 

[BULLDOG]

What about the people depicted in the Bible? Are you disgusted by them?

Hardly a good comparison. The people can only be considered in light of their society standards which were a lot different than they are today. On the other hand, the biblical god is said to be the same yesterday, today, and forever. If he was cruel back then, he hasn't changed.

 

[BULLDOG]

Its an allegory

Again, How do you decide which parts are allegory, and which are depictions of actual events?

 

[ding]

Why? Did we get a new god to replace the old one? An unchanging god is one of the major beliefs of Christianity, isn't it?

Got any complaints with the NT? It's a simple question.

 

[BULLDOG]

Sounds like an argument against any form of athletics.... Can you name a person who became great without suffering? Can suffering be--or become--a blessing? A producer of good?

The greatness you describe is produced by the focus brought on by a certain amount of suffering. Eternal suffering will never produce anything but more suffering.

 

[ding]

Like all people, a certain amount of suffering is just a part of life. One of the first things religion taught me was our years on earth were just an insignificant blink of an eye compared to an eternity of suffering in a fire.

You're really hung up on heaven and hell. Were you a deacon at an evangelical church? Is that what your focus was on when you were a deacon?

 

[BULLDOG]

God directly created Adam and Eve. His people. Who He desired to populate the earth with more of His people born of Adam and Eve. Satan in causing the fall of man introduced another seed line, his. (Gen. 3:15) Thus, not all born of Adam and Eve are of God. They are the product of Satan's work.

Was God aware this would happen? Of course. He is God. The suffering of His people would be necessary for 'sonship'. Even The Son, Jesus, was not immune to suffering for this purpose. (Heb. 5:8) "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered."

Was the Son ever disobedient? No, never. But now, been given a human body, He feels the trial and the temptation and the suffering. All of which God has determined is necessary for 'sonship'. And, how he suffered.

Your next question will no doubt be, ''why would God choose that way of suffering?" That I don't know, other than it obtains what He is after in His people. Just like 'death' is necessary also. (John 12:24) "...Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

You call it mean. We who believe, who are 'of Him' know this is not just the best method for God to obtain the true sons He wants, but it is the only way. Else another way would have been made.

I have often thought, not doubted, that I could not do to my kids what God does to His. And I only see what's in my own surrounding. God sees it all. All the evil that men do he sees it, and doesn't switch the channel. I don't know how He does it, but He does.

And because He does it, it is good, and right, and just.

Quantrill

He's still producing people that he knows will suffer eternal damnation. They are destined for a lake of fire, regardless of anything, and they have no recourse. That's cruel.

 

[Meriweather]

Hardly a good comparison. The people can only be considered in light of their society standards which were a lot different than they are today. On the other hand, the biblical god is said to be the same yesterday, today, and forever. If he was cruel back then, he hasn't changed.

I am not asking for a comparison. I was curious whether or not you find misery in everything.

 

[westwall]

Jesus is an idol and never existed

Jesus provably existed. The Roman historians mention him in at least two cases, one of which is contemporary.

 

[ding]

He's still producing people that he knows will suffer eternal damnation. They are destined for a lake of fire, regardless of anything, and they have no recourse. That's cruel.

Is this the kind of joy you spread when you were a deacon?

 

[Meriweather]

The greatness you describe is produced by the focus brought on by a certain amount of suffering. Eternal suffering will never produce anything but more suffering.

My point is that some find misery, suffering in everything. It has been shown that whatever people do makes them stronger in what they are doing. Worriers for example, become ever stronger worriers. Those who find misery in become ever stronger in finding more misery. (Look, for example, at those who are now finding misery in Santa Claus.) Catholic teaching is that the individual chooses the blessings of heaven or the misery of hell--the misery of their own choosing, their own practices.

If, in the Old Testament, one only finds cruelty in God, then very little has been read of the Old Testament--or perhaps what was retained was what was chosen to retain.

 

[Hafar1014]

Jesus provably existed. The Roman historians mention him in at least two cases, one of which is contemporary.

He became an idol 60 years after his death

 

[SweetSue92]

Whether I love god is not the point. Why he might have created me is. To create a sentient being knowing it would experience nothing but eternal suffering is cruel. That's a lot like a sick kid that tortures a dog just to see it suffer, and it throws those loving compassionate claims out the window.

Your degree of eternal suffering will equal your conduct here on earth, because God is just. Some will really suffer. Others might just grieve what they lost.

 

[Quantrill]

He's still producing people that he knows will suffer eternal damnation. They are destined for a lake of fire, regardless of anything, and they have no recourse. That's cruel.

They could always come to Christ by faith. But they won't. You don't understand. Those who go to the Lake of Fire, don't want God in Heaven. Heaven would be hell for them. They don't want the Lake of Fire, but they don't want God either. Any in the lake of fire, deserve to be there.

But good, and right, and just.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

He became an idol 60 years after his death

And you became an asshole...when?

Quantrill

 

[BULLDOG]

I am not asking for a comparison. I was curious whether or not you find misery in everything.

Odd, but that has nothing to do with your last question.

Of course not, but Christianity isn't too much concerned with our plight on earth. Eternity is the main area of concern. What is our joy or suffering here compared to eternity?

 

[BULLDOG]

Is this the kind of joy you spread when you were a deacon?

Almost everything I said had to do with joy on some level. That was before reading the parts that usually aren't discussed before the congregation. I experience more joy now than I thought I did then. I know my joy is based in reality.

 

[BULLDOG]

My point is that some find misery, suffering in everything. It has been shown that whatever people do makes them stronger in what they are doing. Worriers for example, become ever stronger worriers. Those who find misery in become ever stronger in finding more misery. (Look, for example, at those who are now finding misery in Santa Claus.) Catholic teaching is that the individual chooses the blessings of heaven or the misery of hell--the misery of their own choosing, their own practices.

If, in the Old Testament, one only finds cruelty in God, then very little has been read of the Old Testament--or perhaps what was retained was what was chosen to retain.

We all experience some misery. I normally choose not to dwell on it unless it's part of a conversation.
Did we get a new more fun god with the NT, or is it still the same one who killed all those people?

 

[BULLDOG]

Your degree of eternal suffering will equal your conduct here on earth, because God is just. Some will really suffer. Others might just grieve what they lost.

Yet many are predestined for hell. There is nothing to be done about it. That is what god created them for.