Zone1 The Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24-25)

[Quantrill]

Some preliminary information.

The Gospel of (Matthew) pertains to the Kingdom. What Kingdom? The Kingdom of God implemented by God and exercised by God through man on the earth. (Matt. 6:10) "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." This was what the disciples were to pray for.

The Gospel of (Matthew) is very Jewish, Israelitish. Why? Because they are the race and nation whose men will exercise God's will in that Kingdom, when it comes. It is why God created the nation of Israel. (Ex. 19:5-6) "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

When you have a kingdom, you have a King. Thus the Bible is full of promises concerning the King to come to rule over that Kingdom. He is known as the Messiah. And will be Deity Himself. (Is. 9:6) "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

It was this Kingdom that John the Baptist, Jesus, and the disciples came preaching. 'Repent for the Kingdom is at hand'. (Matt. 3:1-2) (Matt. 4:17) (Matt. 10:5-6) It was at hand because Jesus the King was coming.

But the King was rejected by Israel, the Jews. Thus the Kingdom didn't come. (Matthew 12) presents a great division in (Matthew) for it is there that Israel commits the unpardonable sin. Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Attributing to Satan the works of the Holy Ghost. The offer of the Kingdom is taken away. Jesus now looks only to the Cross and His death.

But God's promises of the Kingdom will remain, just unfulfilled at this time. And nothing but judgement is pronounced on that generation that rejected Him.

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[August West]

Bible, Gospels, etc. are books written by men. I attended Catholic school and I`m still a church goer, but the nuns in Catholic school did not push Bible stuff on us.

 

[Quantrill]

Bible, Gospels, etc. are books written by men. I attended Catholic school and I`m still a church goer, but the nuns in Catholic school did not push Bible stuff on us.

If the Bible is just writings by men, then they have no authority behind them. If the Roman church believes that...no wonder the Roman Church didn't push them. They mean nothing.

Big question is...why the hell are you still a church goer? Makes you feel good? Gives you the fuzzies inside? If the Bible means nothing then the church means nothing. Which means your going to church means nothing.

Just own up that you don't believe any of it. To you it is just a pile of shit.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Continued from post #(1);

After Jesus declared that the sin of the Jews was unforgiven and nothing but judgement would now come upon them, then the Jews start asking for a sign. Like all the signs that Jesus had already given them meant nothing. (Matt. 12:38).

Many signs were given them if they wanted to believe. But they didn't want to believe. Thus they were not seeking a sign to prove Jesus is Who He said He was/is. They are just trying to keep pushing Jesus so that He could not produce a 'sign' and they could say to the people, 'see, He could not give a sign' What hypocrites and liars those Jews were/are.

But Jesus, because He was also God, knew their hearts and intentions. (Matt. 12:39) "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:"

The Jews were not seeking a sign to believe. They were seeking a sign so they had reason not to believe. The heart of unbelief is very deceptive, but God reads men's hearts. Jesus reads men's hearts. Men can lie to others, lie to themselves, lie to God. They may fool others, fool themselves, but they never fool God.

The only sign Jesus promised for this adulterous generation was the sign of the prophet Jonah. What was the 'sign of the prophet Jonah? It was not that Jesus was three days and nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt. 12:40) It was that Jesus was three days and nights in the heart of the earth due to Israel's rejection and killing Him, and He would then turn to the Gentiles.

Jonah was an Israelite prophet of God. And God told him to go to the Gentile nation of Assyria, to the city of Nineveh, and cry against it for their wickedness. (Jonah 1:1-2) And the people of Nineveh believed Jonah and repented. (Jonah 3:5-10) And because they repented...Jonah was very angry with God.. (Jonah 3:5-10)

This is the sign of the prophet Jonah to the Jews. You have rejected my prophets. I go to the Gentiles and they will believe. Jesus was rejected by the His brethren the Jews, and He will turn to the Gentiles and they will believe. And just like with Jonah then, he was very angry over it. So Israel today, is very angry over it. They reject their Messiah, and yet are angry that the Gentiles have received Him.

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[Quantrill]

From (Matt. 13 to 23) Jesus was no longer preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom which was 'Repent for the Kingdom is at hand'. Now He had only His death in view. And He would be teaching His disciples many things, but also how He must die. (Matt. 16:20-21) (Matt. 17:22-23) (Matt. 20:17-19) And rise from the dead.

But throughout this time He would also constantly clash with the Pharisees, Scribes, Lawyers etc. (Matt. 15:1-3) (Matt. 16:1) (Matt. 19:3) (Matt. 19:16) (Matt. 21:15) (Matt. 21:23) (Matt. 21:45-22:1) (Matt. 22:15-18) (Matt. 22:23-28) (Matt. 22:34-36)

These loved to ask Jesus questions hoping to trip him up. But they could not. Then when He asked the questions, they shut up. They knew the answer. They did not like the answer. So it is here at the end of these clashes with His tormentors.

(Matt. 22:41-46) "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them.

"Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

"He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

" The LORD said unto my Lord Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

"If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

"And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions."

The Scripture Jesus is speaking to is (Ps. 110:1) Such a question is relevant today to whom it is addressed.

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[Quantrill]

Jesus has just shut down the Pharisees, and Lawyers, and Scribes to reveal that they are nothing but imposters. Why are they imposters? Because they make a pretense of keeping the Law of Moses. (Matt. 23:1-2) "Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

At this time, Israel was still under the Law of Moses. Jesus was under the Law of Moses. (Matthew) is found in the New Testament, but it is on Old Testament ground. Thus Jesus rightly said, 'whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do". The problem with these Pharisees was their motive. (Matt. 23:5) "But all their works they do for to be seen of men...." No doubt they did many 'good works'. But it was not to get the praise of God. But it was to get the praise of men.

And when religious leaders are motivated by the praise of men, they posture themselves as doing good works...just like God wants in the Law of Moses. And when religious leaders are motivated by the praise of men, they expect their followers to act accordingly and display these same works. Though they themselves, the religious leaders, don't have them either.

Jesus has put up with them long enough. He now lowers the boom on them and calls them what they really are. Oh yes, the meek and lowly Jesus tells it like it is. Just like the meek and lowly Jesus cleared the Temple. Think about it. How is it these Pharisees couldn't stop Jesus from smashing the panhandlers and clearing the Temple? Because when He wanted to do something, no one or thing stood in His way. The Temple was not their house. It was His Fathers house.

Christ says you Pharisees close the Kingdom to men. You don't enter and you don't allow any others to enter. (Matt. 23:13) You are hypocrites. You devour the people and make a show of being spiritual with your long prayers. (23:14) You seek proselytes to you, but not to God. And you make them more a child of hell then they were before. (23:15)

All is pretense and show with these keepers of the law. (Matt. 23;28) "Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." You are the son of your fathers who have killed the prophets of God. (23:31-32) "Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers."

And Christ is acting at this time as the Judge of all the earth. Which He is. (Matt. 23:33) "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? So declares the meek and lowly Jesus.

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[Quantrill]

Then Jesus says a very interesting thing in (Matt 23:34). "Wherefore, behold I send unto your prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify: and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city."

Jesus had been talking about the prophets sent by God before. But now He is speaking of future prophets to come sent by Him. You can read the book of (Acts) and see the fulfillment of these. But note it is Christ as God sending these. For only God has authority to send others in His name. (Matt. 27:18) "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." What a statement! This is the risen Christ. All who would mock God and Christ might remember these words, for it is He ye shall meet.

Jesus had already singled out the sin of this generation of Jews when they rejected Him and blasphemed the Holy Spirit in (Matt. 12) The Pharisees asked for a sign. Jesus said, (Matt. 12:39), "...And evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign...." And he said of Nineveh to whom Jonah preached, (Matt. 12:41), "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold a greater than Jonas is here."

And of the queen of the south, it is said, (Matt. 12:42) "The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here."

Then Christ compared that generation of Jews in Israel to one who was possessed of a demon, and who had the demon cast out. The casting out of a demon doesn't give the individual eternal life. It simply removes the demon. (Matt. 23:43-44) "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished." Note how clean the house is when the demon returns. But though it is clean and orderly, God says it is 'empty'. It is still vacant. God is not there. So the way is available for the demon to return. (Matt. 12:45) "Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and thy enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."

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[Quantrill]

That generation of Jews who mocked God the Father, and killed His Son were not going to get away with it. A fearful judgment was coming. Yet, what about (Luke 23:34) "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...." Why didn't the Father forgive them? This pertains to only the crucifixion. And, I believe they were forgiven for that act.

But, we already saw in (Matt. 12) where the 'unpardonable sin' had been committed. And we saw in (Matt. 23) that Jesus already pronounced judgment upon the Pharisees and the Israel they were leading for various sins they were committing and for future sins they would committ.

And for these Jesus said, (Matt. 23:35), "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation."

When God will bring this judgment, it will be for all the righteous who have been killed, and it will come upon this generation. Serious indeed.

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[Quantrill]

But Jesus is not joyful in this great judgment to come. (Matt. 23:37) "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how oftern would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not."

(Matt. 23:38) "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." God is not there. Their Messiah is not there. And He won't be until a future day. (Matt. 23:39) "For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

But those words, 'till ye say' are words of hope. Those words speak in the affirmative that one day she shall. And that day will be the return of Jesus Christ.

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[Quantrill]

The closing of (Matt. 23) was the last public discourse Jesus would have. And with His last words there, He established a time period.

1.) Your house (Israel) is left unto you desolate. (Matt. 23:38) Because Jesus has left it. The King is absent.

2.) You will not see Jesus anymore till ye say 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

So, between that time that Jesus departed the temple to His 2nd Coming, the house of Israel is in a desolate state. As Paul said in (Rom. 11:25) "...blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

(Matt. 24:1) "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple." Understand that the disciples had been listening to Jesus attacks and condemnation upon the religious leaders in (Matt. 23). What prompted them to want to show Him the buildings of the Temple? Was it to impress Him with their beauty and durability and how the Jews were not as bad as Jesus had described, for see what we have done for God?

Whatever their reason, Jesus replied, (Matt. 24:2), "And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Jesus had pronounced judgment upon Israel and Jerusalem in (Matt. 23) and now He assures the disciples that it will be so devastating that not one stone of the Temple will remain upon another. This is of course a future reference to 70 A.D.

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[Quantrill]

(Matt. 24:3) "And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world."

The disciples apparently separated from Jesus for a time, and had time to discuss what Jesus said about the destruction of the temple in (Matt. 24:2). Which raised these questions, some of which pertain to the end time events.

How interesting to me that Jesus is sitting on the mount of Olives to respond to questions concerning end times. Why? Because when Messiah returns, it will be to the Mount of Olives. (Zechariah 14:4) "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east...."

And, it was from the mount of Olives that Jesus left from. (Acts 1:9-12) "...while they beheld, he was taken up, and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

"Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

"Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey."

Of course Jesus chose this place from where to speak of future end time events. He knew it well. He had travelled it before. Long before, when the Spirit of God departed from the Temple in Israel ending the Theocratic Kingdom of God with Israel at the Babylonian captivity. Note the steps the Spirit of God took.

The glory of God leaves the cherub upon the Ark in the Temple. (Ezekiel 9:3) "And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house...."

The glory stood over the threshold of the house. (Ezekiel 9:4) "Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD's glory.

The glory stood over the cherubims. (Ezekiel 10:18) "Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims."

The glory stood upon mount Olivet. (Ezekiel 11:23) "And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city."

Coincidence? The glory of God left Israel's house, the temple, and departs to the Mount of Olives. Jesus in the Temple said to Israel, your house is left desolate. He departs to the Mount of Olives.

Though Israel has had certain revivals and rebuilt the Temple after the Babylonian captivity, the Shekinah glory of God had never returned to those Temples.

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[Quantrill]

That which (Matthew) is addressing is to the Jews. Not the Church. The Church of Jesus Christ hasn't even begun at this time. The Church at the time Christ gives the Olivet Discourse is still a 'mystery'. It is unknown to both Jew and Gentile. (Eph. 3:1-6)

In (Matt. 24:3) when the disciples asked about the end of the 'world', they were asking about the end of present age. That word used for 'world' is 'aion' or age. The present age they are asking about is Jewish because they associate the coming of Messiah with the end of the age. They believe their Scriptures, the Old Testament.

(Daniel 8;17) "...he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision."

(Daniel 12:4) "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:...."

(Daniel 12:13) "But go thou thy way till the end be:..."

And Jesus Christ has already established a time period for Israel. Her house is now desolate and will remain desolate until He returns. Meaning God is not working with Israel as the Kingdom of God on earth that represents Him.

So we have the questions asked by the disciples in (Matt. 24:3). Some say they are two questions and some say they are three. I don't think it really matters as long as all are answered. I will say there are two.

1.) 'when shall these things be?

2.) what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?

We know that (Matt. 24:2) speaks to 70 A.D. But of course the disciples didn't know that. Thus the first question speaks to the 'when' of the destruction of the Temple. Which we know to be 70 A.D. The disciples no doubt associated the destruction of that Temple and the end of the age as the same time. They didn't know that Israel's house would be desolate for a long, long time. They didn't know that God was preparing a totally new body of believers on earth, called the Church, in whom His Kingdom would be represented. And until the full number of the Church is brought in, Israel's house remains desolate.

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[Cougarbear]

If the Bible is just writings by men, then they have no authority behind them. If the Roman church believes that...no wonder the Roman Church didn't push them. They mean nothing.

Big question is...why the hell are you still a church goer? Makes you feel good? Gives you the fuzzies inside? If the Bible means nothing then the church means nothing. Which means your going to church means nothing.

Just own up that you don't believe any of it. To you it is just a pile of shit.

Quantrill

He's obviously a much happier person than you. Maybe you could put a smile on your ugly face if you attended church too.

 

[Quantrill]

He's obviously a much happier person than you. Maybe you could put a smile on your ugly face if you attended church too.

He may be 'happy', but he lives a lie. You think just 'smiling' produces one right with God? A hypocrite that smiles. Doesn't believe any of it, but smiles.

As I said, if in your church the Bible means nothing, then your church going means less. You live a lie.\

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[Quantrill]

He may be 'happy', but he lives a lie. You think just 'smiling' produces one right with God? A hypocrite that smiles. Doesn't believe any of it, but smiles.

As I said, if in your church the Bible means nothing, then your church going means less. You live a lie.

Quantrill

 

[Cougarbear]

He may be 'happy', but he lives a lie. You think just 'smiling' produces one right with God? A hypocrite that smiles. Doesn't believe any of it, but smiles.

As I said, if in your church the Bible means nothing, then your church going means less. You live a lie.\

Quantrill

The Bible is a Testament of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon is another or second testimony of Jesus Christ. So, you have written a lie. Ezekiel chapter 37 is about the stick of Judah (the Bible) and the stick of Joseph (the Book of Mormon) will become one in the Lord’s hand. Does that give you an idea how important the Bible is to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? You really have to ask active members what we believe instead of running to negative dull dissolution sick hate in their hearts people say.

Anyone who lives a lie is not happy. They frown every second of each and every day. Those who truly believe in Jesus Christ are truly happy. The ones that spend every moment of the day trying to tear other's beliefs down are very, very unhappy. So, lighten up, get good with the Lord and be happy.

 

[Quantrill]

The Bible is a Testament of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon is another or second testimony of Jesus Christ. So, you have written a lie. Ezekiel chapter 37 is about the stick of Judah (the Bible) and the stick of Joseph (the Book of Mormon) will become one in the Lord’s hand. Does that give you an idea how important the Bible is to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? You really have to ask active members what we believe instead of running to negative dull dissolution sick hate in their hearts people say.

Anyone who lives a lie is not happy. They frown every second of each and every day. Those who truly believe in Jesus Christ are truly happy. The ones that spend every moment of the day trying to tear other's beliefs down are very, very unhappy. So, lighten up, get good with the Lord and be happy.

How have a written a lie. I have not mentioned any Book of Mormon. Post #(2) says nothing about the Mormon church.

Pay attention to what was said. If you want to argue Mormonism, fine. But nothing said indicated Mormonism.

I don't believe 'happy' describes the Christian. Faithful and devoted no matter the circumstances, which can be and are very grievous and sorrowful, defines the Christian.

'Happy' is a silly childish term to describe an idiot.

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[Quantrill]

As was said earlier, the disciples knew from the Old Testament that Messiah would come in the end time to deliver Jerusalem from the destruction upon her from the nations. Thus, to them, the questions they asked pertained to one event in time, not two.

Note (Zechariah 14:1-4) "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and the spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished, and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

"Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east....."

The disciples were correct in understanding that (Zechariah 14:1-4) spoke to one event and that as Jerusalem was being destroyed Messiah would come and rescue here, destroy her enemies, and set up the Kingdom.

But they didn't know, and could not know, that when Christ spake of not one stone being left upon another, it was about the still future 70 A.D. destruction, and not about the much longer future one spoken of in (Zechariah).

The questions they asked must be answered, meaning two events must be addressed. 70 A.D. and the End Time Coming of Messiah. In other words, if one interprets (Matt. 24) as fulfilled in 70 A.D., then Messiah came in 70 A.D.

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[Cougarbear]

How have a written a lie. I have not mentioned any Book of Mormon. Post #(2) says nothing about the Mormon church.

Pay attention to what was said. If you want to argue Mormonism, fine. But nothing said indicated Mormonism.

I don't believe 'happy' describes the Christian. Faithful and devoted no matter the circumstances, which can be and are very grievous and sorrowful, defines the Christian.

'Happy' is a silly childish term to describe an idiot.

Quantrill

You knew exactly what you wrote was the usual anti-Mormon lie that we have another Bible instead of the Bible. You thought you could play word games with me but you failed. Deception is still a lie. Foolish and stupid.

In some Christian circles I would agree that some are not happy. Those would be the liberal Churches as liberal Democrats are mostly unhappy people compared to conservative Republicans. As a people, LDS are happy people. The only sad dull dissolution idiot is yourself. And you have made it so with no one to blame but yourself. I feel sorry for you in a happy way.

 

[luiza]

So speaking frankly Quantrill , Where did it start going wrong for you ?

Do you feel bitter or have you found forgiveness , seeing that their errors were unintended ?

Incidentally, what do you think of the Remote Viewer's reports of Jesus' original form , his mission ( incarnation ) details and his present state ?
Do you think it unfair to say his time here was a failure, which apparently many of his " bosses " do?